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Hi I wanted to talk about historical overlap with 40k and the real world.

For instance I think the Ultramarines are suppose to represent Byzantines. I think the Night Lords are meant to represent the terror troops that have been employed by various authoritarian regimes, the World Eaters are meant to represent a mix anti Roman Barbarians both Spartucus sand Germanic warriors like the Anglo Saxons, the Iron Warriors are meant to be Greek city states. Any thoughts?

I think the Imperium of Man is inspired by the Carolingian Empire under Charlemagne.

The intense piety, constant warfare, factionalism and immense size of the Empire making it almost ungovernable all tie in nicely!

I think the Imperium of Man is inspired by the Carolingian Empire under Charlemagne.

The intense piety, constant warfare, factionalism and immense size of the Empire making it almost ungovernable all tie in nicely!

The Western part led the by the High while Ultramar is like Byzantium. The Tau are the Ottomans.

The Ultramarines are visually much mor Republican/Principian Rome than Dominate Constantinople, at least to my eyes. The Tau come off far more as a generic lazy east asian mishmash than anything reminiscent of the Ottomans, at least to me, particularly as the Ottomans only arise in context with the Byzantine Romans near the very end of their existence after they've already mostly lost their empire.


Beyond that, I'd caution drawing any deeper analogues between 40k factions and historical groups and peoples. The similarities rarely go deeper than some visual motifs, and thats about all GW really intends for the most part.

To take another example, the DKoK are a visual amalgamation of WW1 French and German uniforms and equipment with some steampunk scifi bits thrown in, but little about the DKoK otherwise reflects much of anything of these nations. The Steel Legion are modeled off WW2 German Paratroops but are portrayed as mechanized infantry fighting across radwastes and hive cities and usually sporting a lower class british accent.

A lot of 40k is built on real events and factions, but not in any way thats really meant to tie it to such, just recreate some flavor of exciting events.

The Macharian Crusade is quite closely modelled on the conquests of Alexander the Great, with Macharius standing in for the man himself. I think the fluff might have him actually quote Alexander outright.

Man, y'all missin' the lowest of the low hanging fruit:

Space Wolves iz Space VIKINGS

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Man, y'all missin' the lowest of the low hanging fruit:

Space Wolves iz Space VIKINGS

Space furries you mean. YIFF YIFF!

 Peregrine wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Man, y'all missin' the lowest of the low hanging fruit:

Space Wolves iz Space VIKINGS

Space furries you mean. YIFF YIFF!

Well. .. yeah, I mean, how many non-history buffs have a view of vikings where it may be easy to conflate the two?

TheOpposition wrote:
For instance I think the Ultramarines are suppose to represent Byzantines.

Nah, the Ultramarines are a Victorian-era English historian's hilariously idealised interpretation of Republican Rome.

Whereas the Dark Eldar are more like what Republican Rome was really like.

 Duskweaver wrote:

TheOpposition wrote:
For instance I think the Ultramarines are suppose to represent Byzantines.

Nah, the Ultramarines are a Victorian-era English historian's hilariously idealised interpretation of Republican Rome.

Whereas the Dark Eldar are more like what Republican Rome was really like.

I dunno.. the dark eldar don't seem nearly cruel and decadent eneugh

The two missing legions were derived from the three missing legions from the battle of Teutoburg forest.

Rogue trader sisters of battle represent the French government, 10 July 1985.
8th edition sisters represent 1976 east germany...

I imagine the orks are an abstract version of the Vikings.

Discovering somewhere new? Orks have already been there!

Since we seem to have come round to this again, I'll repost my post from 2013 on this same topic:

No race or faction is entirely just one culture lifted as is from history. GW has taken and blended and adapted (to varying degrees of success) parts from all over the world and from different historical time periods.

For example:

The Eldar thematically draw from multiple sources. Of these, Japan is one of them. Direct evidence of aesthetc borrowings include: the symbol of Iyanden includes a shrine gate design directly analogous to Japanese Shinto shrines. The back banners Jes Goodwin was fond of including in Eldar design (and which was present in many 2nd ed. models) matched the back banners worn by Japanese samurai and soldiers during the Japanese Warring States period and are even named as sashimono banners in Jes Goodwin's sketches and notes.

However, the Eldar also have influences from Greek,Celtic, even Egyptian sources. The Corinthian design of Eldar helms, particularly Dire Avenger ones, for example is clear Greek influence. Eldar Craftworld names of Biel-tan and Saim-han are direct copies of the real world Celtic festivals/holidays. The false chin beards on certain Eldar helms such as the Dire Avenger Exarch borrows from the Egyptians (see Egyptian funeral masks), and the Ulthwe design is based off the historical Egyptian Eye of Horus. The chiseled Eldar runes are based off Egyptian hieroglyphs while the more fluid Eldar runes look like those that might be written with a brush, and are either a reference to Egyptian Demotic or Asian brush writing. The Yin/Yang symbols on Eldar transfer sheets or Eldar Titans and Wraithknights is a take on the Chinese concept of Yin and Yang. The seals on the Wraith constructs is referred to by Jes Goodwin in his sketches as tugra, which is a Turk/Ottoman thing. Overlying all of this is the theme of Tolkien elves.

Thematically each of these cultures served as epitome of alien, inscrutable menace to one of the component influences on the Imperium. The Imperium is, obviously, part Roman, part-medieval and part-Victorian mixed with a bit of 20th century authoritarian aesthetics and cranked up to be a caricature. Romans were simultaneously fascinated and repulsed by the Greeks and Egyptians, medieval western Europeans by the Byzantines and the Victorians by the Chinese. Fu Manchu, the quintessential "Yellow Peril" villain is pretty much how the Imperium pictures Eldar Farseers.

Yup, this topic pops up every few months.
Most factions are a total mish mash of all sorts of stuff.

Battle of the Big Toof river.

A historical event turned upside down, gutted and canned to fit the 40k narrative.

A lot of gaming settings tend to be "X in spaaace" this is partiuclarly true after a good period of time when the tropes have solidified and a new generation of writers have popped up on the scene and have stopped noting some of the more subtle aspects of the setting. 40k however has mostly managed to avoid this.

A.T. wrote:
The two missing legions were derived from the three missing legions from the battle of Teutoburg forest.

Rogue trader sisters of battle represent the French government, 10 July 1985.
8th edition sisters represent 1976 east germany...

Or the legions captured at carahae

I think the tau are more akin to greek city states. Each sept being its own city etc.

Dark Eldar are more like what Republican Rome was really like.

Their much like Medieval Venetians. Aristocratic, check, wealthy, chick, cruel, check, elite yet outnumbered army powered by naval armada, check, arrogant, check.