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I don't know if this is an old question but now Primaris have been around a while it seems to me that the basic Intercessor squad may be better?

Basic stats of Sternguard

Normal M6" WS 3+ BS 3+ S4 T4 W1 A2 Ld8 Sv 3+
Sergeant M6" WS 3+ BS 3+ S4 T4 W1 A3 Ld 9 Sv 3+

Basic weapon is special issue boltgun with 30" range Rapid Fire 1 S4 AP-2 D1 (so a long range armour piercing bolter)

Options: Sergeant can take Melee weapons or Combi-Weapons
Any Sternguard can take a Combi-Weapon (losing the 30" range for more versatility)

Can go in all transports so Razorbacks, Rhinos, Drop Pods, Land Raiders

Base cost: 5 man squad 80 points



Basic stats of intercessors:

Normal M6" WS 3+ BS 3+ S4 T4 W2(!) A2( Ld 7 Sv 3+
Sergeant M6" WS 3+ BS 3+ S4 T4 W2(!) A3 Ld 8 Sv 3+

So more wounds, same amount of attacks as Sternguard, slightly worse Ld.

Weapon is a 30" Rapid fire 1 S4 AP-1 D1 Bolt rifle. so same range as sternguard and only slightly less AP

Aux Grenade launcher allows firing of frag and and krak grenades to 30"!

Can only take Repulsor as transport. Cawl only knows why.

Base cost of 5 men is 85 points.


As far as i can see Sternguard are good for racing up the field in a razorback with combi-weapons. But their W1 stat means compared to Intercessors they are glass cannons.

Sternguard can also take a heavy weapon (shame they are overcosted) combi weapons and untill recently their sergeant had a massive advantage in CCW access.

The biggest issue with them now is they are pointed around a tactical marines points ie too many if they were 12 or 11 points per model they would be way better, or heavy weapons marines weren't paying double premiums for being BS3+ over BS4+.

Can go in all transports so Razorbacks, Rhinos, Drop Pods, Land Raiders

Not Repulsors- you probably realized this and just skipped over it. But it's good to remember, because you can't mix and match Primaris and 1.0 Marines. To hop in a transport you can't mix and match Primaris Captains/Lieutenants/Apothecaries/Ancients, and 1.0 version, nor can they ride in a mixed transport. Assuming you were running UM, that means running pre-Vigilus Marneus (or a generic Captain with CP Upgrade) for the Chapter Master Buff if you want it.

Also your compairing intercessors after a 2 point reductions vrs sternguard who grudgingly got 1 point reduction.

Though at this point it's become clear noone at GW seems to be following any clear rules as to how or why points costs are assigned to models.

Replusive Mk2 points increased when it was already considered sub optimal.

Fw knights loose rules for no points changes.

IG tank commanders considered to be a good unit that then got further points reductions.

It's illogical and baffling.

Sternguard can go in a all transports except repulsors. that's what I meant Breton.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
The only way i can see sternguard being viable now is as a "cheap" plasma unit.

5 marines with combi-plasma is 125 points. compared to a hellblaster squad of 165.



Basically the old "elite" units of SM need to be dropped or massively upgraded

Sternguard also have the +1 to wound strat, which is pretty nice.

Intercessors are also ObSec and a troop pic, both relevent.

Better offense, less defense for a similar point cost. Seems fair. SG are a lot more flexible with options, which is useful sometimes. And in the face of things like overcharged plasma, the vets are just as rugged as the new kids.

The old vets also look cool and have a ton of flavor, character, and history. If just crunching numbers, this can be ignored, but for a lot of us is pretty relevent.

I think they are close enough to the same balance that the rest of the list and your local meta will determine which is “better”. Both seem viable. They do similar things at a similar price, with slightly different perks. Which describes most of the codex.

 Corennus wrote:
Sternguard can go in a all transports except repulsors. that's what I meant Breton.

Yeah I figured you knew, but I wanted to point out that also made a different on the supporting cast. Sternguard mean you can't as easily support with Primaris HQs and Transports for a combined unit.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The only way i can see sternguard being viable now is as a "cheap" plasma unit.

5 marines with combi-plasma is 125 points. compared to a hellblaster squad of 165.



Basically the old "elite" units of SM need to be dropped or massively upgraded

Sternguard also get to double tap the bolter, and fire the plasma.

You basically pay as much as you do with Sternguard for the privelage to buy a bunch of items. Crazy I know.

They're basically a unit you need to go all out with. Infiltrate them as full squads and bring an Ancient and suddenly they make a little more sense.

For me, double the wounds and Troops (for CPs and ObjSec) tips it in favour of Intercessors 95% of the time. Maybe you can find some niche roles where Sternguard come out on tops but Primaris have pretty much stolen their parking bay in my lists.

You can run combi-plas Sternguard in a pod but for similar points you can get Plasma Inceptors who do a similar job and can retain their movement ability once they arrive.

 Karhedron wrote:
For me, double the wounds and Troops (for CPs and ObjSec) tips it in favour of Intercessors 95% of the time. Maybe you can find some niche roles where Sternguard come out on tops but Primaris have pretty much stolen their parking bay in my lists.

You can run combi-plas Sternguard in a pod but for similar points you can get Plasma Inceptors who do a similar job and can retain their movement ability once they arrive.

The Pod does have an advantage in that the troops inside cannot be Forewarned against.

As soon as Deathwatch came out, they stopped being viable.

A rather niche use for them I've found is with Lias Issodon; take 10, pop up near enemy units with him, pop the +1 wound strat and you've got quite a handy bit of firepower. 20 shots, hitting on 3+ rerolling, +1 to wound with any roll of 5+ being Ap-3 (because you did take Storm of Fire on Lias didn't you?), finished off with 3 S5 Ap-4 D3 shots from Lias' own Barret .50/Boltgun monstrosity.

 Kanluwen wrote:
As soon as Deathwatch came out, they stopped being viable.

Don't Deathwatch not get bolter discipline? Storm Bolter Sternguard are decent, imo.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
As soon as Deathwatch came out, they stopped being viable.

Don't Deathwatch not get bolter discipline? Storm Bolter Sternguard are decent, imo.

Bolter Discipline is new--and frankly, it's a bandaid fix.

Deathwatch still get the bolter discipline. They just can't use it with special issue ammo because, nerf to them. However to be fair, they were hands down the best marines with the better bolters and now they still are but they have to work for it a little more again.

Well, the 4 shots per model is a reasonable output for a 16 point model. Otherwise the AP -2 at +1 to wound is also pretty good. I havent done the massed Combi-Weapon drop in a long time, but who knows, that may find it's way back.

I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would equip Sternguard with special weapons and go forward with them. If you're going to do that, Company Veterans with Storm Shields is a much better option.

Where Sternguard shine is as a cheaper alternative to a Dev squad. Their Strat makes their SIBs wound most things on a 4 or better, and they're a lot more likely to be in range to use them even if they're hanging back to use the two heavy weapons they can take.

The Newman wrote:
I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would equip Sternguard with special weapons and go forward with them. If you're going to do that, Company Veterans with Storm Shields is a much better option.

Where Sternguard shine is as a cheaper alternative to a Dev squad. Their Strat makes their SIBs wound most things on a 4 or better, and they're a lot more likely to be in range to use them even if they're hanging back to use the two heavy weapons they can take.

I can't figure out why they put special weapons on Sternguard at all unless they were locked in before combiweapons got to have their cake and eat it too (Fire both, all turn, every turn).

They've been able to load up on the combi-weapons and 2 specials since 5th Ed. I think. Which iirc is also when they became Sternguard, rather than just Veteran Squads, and took Special Ammunition from the Deathwatch.

 Insectum7 wrote:
They've been able to load up on the combi-weapons and 2 specials since 5th Ed. I think. Which iirc is also when they became Sternguard, rather than just Veteran Squads, and took Special Ammunition from the Deathwatch.

I know they've been able to. I'm saying I don't know why anyone would give them a special over a combi, especially now that Combi aren't one turn only.

 Insectum7 wrote:
They've been able to load up on the combi-weapons and 2 specials since 5th Ed. I think. Which iirc is also when they became Sternguard, rather than just Veteran Squads, and took Special Ammunition from the Deathwatch.

Dw did not exist back then. Sternguards had spec ammo first.

Gitdakka wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
They've been able to load up on the combi-weapons and 2 specials since 5th Ed. I think. Which iirc is also when they became Sternguard, rather than just Veteran Squads, and took Special Ammunition from the Deathwatch.

Dw did not exist back then. Sternguards had spec ammo first.

As a faction? No, Deathwatch didn't exist.

But as a squad/upgrade option for characters, they were around for a while, emerging into 40k with a metal upgrade sprue (shoulder pad & special boltgun) not long after the release of the 54mm =][= game, which saw the debut of Watch Captain Artemis.

Lexicanum indicates some of the material may be in Chapter Approved 2003, which would make it late third edition.

Breton wrote:

The Newman wrote:
I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would equip Sternguard with special weapons and go forward with them. If you're going to do that, Company Veterans with Storm Shields is a much better option.

Where Sternguard shine is as a cheaper alternative to a Dev squad. Their Strat makes their SIBs wound most things on a 4 or better, and they're a lot more likely to be in range to use them even if they're hanging back to use the two heavy weapons they can take.

I can't figure out why they put special weapons on Sternguard at all unless they were locked in before combiweapons got to have their cake and eat it too (Fire both, all turn, every turn).

Special weapon or combiweapon is kind of a moot point when Sternguard shouldn't be equiped with either. Fair question for Company Veterans though, with "support for old weapon loads" as the most likely explanation.

The Newman wrote:

Breton wrote:

The Newman wrote:
I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would equip Sternguard with special weapons and go forward with them. If you're going to do that, Company Veterans with Storm Shields is a much better option.

Where Sternguard shine is as a cheaper alternative to a Dev squad. Their Strat makes their SIBs wound most things on a 4 or better, and they're a lot more likely to be in range to use them even if they're hanging back to use the two heavy weapons they can take.

I can't figure out why they put special weapons on Sternguard at all unless they were locked in before combiweapons got to have their cake and eat it too (Fire both, all turn, every turn).

Special weapon or combiweapon is kind of a moot point when Sternguard shouldn't be equiped with either. Fair question for Company Veterans though, with "support for old weapon loads" as the most likely explanation.

I've got no problem with combi-weapons on Sternguard. I've got no problem with old sternguard with bolters or specials if they're from the Drop Pod Special Alpha strike era. I wouldn't make one now with a special instead of a combi.