Resipsa131 wrote:Hey everyone thanks for dropping by my thread. I'm looking for people to point out weaknesses in the list and to potentially answer a few questions about my list, any and all criticism is welcome. Ive played this list against the better players at my
FLGS and its performed really well. (I dropped a void bomb on a unit of 10 Berserkers and had no rolls under 3+ he was pissed that he didn't get to spill blood for the blood god.)
1. I'm running three detachments but only have 9
CP at start, 1 is typically used in deployment to drop my red grief wytches in the webway, leaving me with 2xLighting Fast Reactions, and 1 Agents of Vect. I've thought that running Labyrinthine Cunning would alleviate this but with the new tactical restraint its netted maybe 2CP at the most. I feel like this is enough but maybe I'm missing something?
2. Is the inured from suffering on my flyers better than the bonuses to ignoring cover that I would get from the flayed skulls?
3. Is Labyrinthine Cunning the best Warlord Choice? He rarely is in danger as he sits back with my Ravagers and rerolls 1's to hit and wound?
4. Do I have antitank? (6 Blasters, 5 Haywire Blasters in Deepstrike, 2 Voidlance, 13 Dizzie Cannons, & 3 of the pick your choice Missiles on the aircraft)
5. Red grief is the best cult to run to get down the field for a first turn charge and then gives rerolls and the +1 to charge to my wytches, correct?
6.What type of list would really hammer this, a hoard (I haven't played this list versus something that had over 100 bodies in it)? I think versus hoards I'd deploy the wyches on the board and have them charge in second Turn
1. I tend to often go in with only about 9
CP at start also, of course I don't run Vect so I tend to have some extra freedom of space. I don't see Labyrinthine Cunning as all that particularly exciting, but it's not bad either. A solid alternate potential for you is to just embrace the limited
CP available, and if you do so the 3++ invulnerable Red Grief Warlord trait is pretty effective too.
2. In my opinion, no, but I love Flayed Skull. That said, Dissies and Void Lances probably don't care, so end of the day you'd mostly be getting it for your missiles so it's a minor buff to them, whereas the 6+++ *can* be pretty potent if your dice land right. I'd say specifically for your Flyers it actually doesn't matter that much, and in that specific sense I would probably tend to lean Black Heart as overall more useful most of the time.
3. If you are insistent on having the Archon as your Warlord to try to play 'keep away' on Slay the Warlord, then yeah, it's probably your best bet.
4. I'm not sure I understand your question, everything you listed can work as anti-tank, so by definition, yes, you have anti tank. I think what you might be trying to ask is 'do I have *enough* anti-tank?' and that answer gets more dicey. For my personal money you feel low, but not 'dear gawd what are you thinking?' low. The only real way to answer this question is to assess how much anti-tank vs. horde situations you tend to get in your local meta? I tend to get a lot of mech with a few surprise hordes, which is why I nuthug Dissies so hard, but other people get other things.
5. That is correct,that they get re-rolls, not +1 to advance though basically all Wyches get the charge re-rolls by Turn 2 thanks to
PfP, so it can be a bit of a mixed bag - the big thing is the charge after advance (and to remember their Raiders get this also if bought through Red Grief).
6. I think a well built Knight list would give you headaches, also another
DE list that was more meched up and Kabal centric than you as they could render your Venoms useless while being better at popping your vehicles than you are theirs.
Resipsa131 wrote:++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [25 PL, 1CP, 455pts] ++
Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 145pts]: Splinter Cannon
. 2 Disintegrator Cannons: 2x Disintegrator cannon
Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 145pts]: Splinter Cannon
. 2 Disintegrator Cannons: 2x Disintegrator cannon
Voidraven [9 PL, 165pts]: Two void lances, Voidraven Missiles
I tend to find it pretty iffy to go with the s.cannon upgrade, as generally I'm in rapid fire range with the s.rifle and 4 poison shots is basically just as good as six, and is cheaper, so...
I also rather prefer the Razorwing to the Voidraven as I think it's such a better
TAC option while being cheaper - but the Voidraven is still pretty solid, and the void lances can be useful against certain targets.
Resipsa131 wrote:Archon [4 PL, 96pts]: Blaster, Huskblade, Labyrinthine Cunning, Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Warlord (Archon)
. Writ of the Living Muse
I still am not sure what the point of the Phantasm is on this guy when people take it. You're sitting in the back yelling at Ravagers all game, right? So what's the
PGL doing for you exactly besides wasting 3 points?
Resipsa131 wrote:Archon [4 PL, 96pts]: Blaster, Huskblade, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
. The Helm of Spite
Generally like this, very solid build.
Depending on your tournament rules remember that depending on what you're fighting to flip out the Helm for something more useful, like a Blood Glaive to the Succubus or even an Animus Vitae.
Resipsa131 wrote:Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle
This is my default Warrior build and I think it's about as good as you can get, I like it.
[
Resipsa131 wrote:Ravager [7 PL, 125pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon, Disintegrator cannon
Excellent.
Pretty neutral on the cost of chain snares.
Also, pretty iffy on the idea of making your assault/Blaster Archon walk. Seriously, it would be so easy to invest in a single Raider with a Dissie (and for my money, a superior tool than a Venom anyway, but certainly at least competitive) and be able to have him ride in style, get where he needs to go, and be able to help and shoot. Or, heck, stick the Succubus in there too so she's not footslogging herself. Footslogging
DE are sad
DE.
Resipsa131 wrote:Succubus [4 PL, 50pts]: Archite Glaive, Hypex (Combat Drug), Splinter pistol
This is fine.
Resipsa131 wrote:Wyches [8 PL, 165pts]: Grave Lotus (Combat Drug)
. Hekatrix: Hekatarii blade, Splinter pistol
. 18x Wych
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Shardnet and impaler
Dropping some of the bloat points from above for extra Wych Weapons would benefit this squad.
I'll also say that if I was planning to run a giant blob of Wyches I might make them Cursed Blade - it's a bit of a toss up for you since Red Grief combos well with your harassment force below, but this feels ripe to suffer morale losses.
Resipsa131 wrote:Hellions [10 PL, 199pts]: Adrenalight (Combat Drug)
. Helliarch: Hellglaive, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
. 13x Hellion
Not the most competitive option, but they can be surprisingly nasty versus horde and multi wound stuff.
I do question comboing them with all Venoms, as I consider bringing them a good alternative to not bringing Venoms. Depends on how likely you feel you are to see horde - remember these guys are actually primarily a shooting unit that happens to be able to charge, not the other way around.
Resipsa131 wrote:Reavers [6 PL, 100pts]: Grav-Talon, Painbringer (Combat Drug)
. Arena Champion: Agoniser
. 2x Reaver
. Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models): Blaster
I feel like this unit is much more fragile than you anticipate it being - also, is your goal to shoot or assault stuff? I don't see a lot of value in planning for both on a unit able to be blasted out of existence relatively easily - especially since if you're going Red Grief it seems like you're planning to blitz them up the field. Their theory goal should be tying up mech for a turn to deny shooting - not something an aggie is particularly helpful for.
Resipsa131 wrote:Scourges [5 PL, 92pts]
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Solarite: Shardcarbine
Love Scourges, this is a good load out.
Overall I think you're leaning a bit heavily into the amount of points you're using for the Wyches while having a questionable game plan with them. A huge Wych blob is fun and all, but with lacking Wych Weapons or a special weapon on the Hekatrix, you're basically saying 'yeah, 60
Str 4
AP - attacks are going to handle this threat (while presumably leaving something alive to hold in place with the net). That is, incidentally, about 18 Guardsmen or 7 Marines (presuming no overwatch loses) But that is a paper unit, that as soon as it is open to return fire will get eaten apart in a turn by any half credible commander. Most horde armies wouldn't blink, and most specialist armies will have their unit wiped and be able to fire freely. The Hellions are okay, but are an anti-horde tool that is probably a B-level choice in the codex, and the Reavers strike me as too pricey and trying to do multiple things at once as a result of being too pricey. And how does that all help the Kabal? The Hellions, the Wyches, and the Venoms (and to a lesser extent the missiles and s.cannons on your flyers) all have the same optimal targets, while most of your anti tank/monster weaponry is generally loaded into 4 units (3 Ravagers and 1 Scourge squad) which a canny commander could focus on and *really* negatively impact your anti mech shooting down to just the fliers.
That all said, I do like the list. I think the list will do really well at local tournaments and will leave some armies nicely mauled.
I would tend to advocate that you re-think your Wych concept though as you refine the list, especially if you want to compete against stronger lists/players.
Regards,
Thor.
