Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

That topic was being played out in the first argumentative facebook group this weekend. The poll I posted had a solid representation of wysiwyg or using models that represented what they should, but there are a few that argue passionately for counts-as proxies and painting guys purple to represent other units for you to remember easier.

(not saying either is wrong - my preference is also 50% background and lore and immersion with the other 50% being immersive and sensible rules that encourage position and maneuver)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmZwMr_YxU0

www.underspire.net is now live!

https://www.underspire.net/general/proxies-when-and-when-not-to-use-them/

My latest content video on proxies.

Shameless plug - my first content entry for the Underspire.net - a short Conquest fan-fiction. Please bear in mind that I am neither a writer nor a native english speaker. You were warned
https://www.underspire.net/fiction/three-fates/

Cool story, Shadow. I liked the three distinct points of view and how they converge.

It's nice to see Conquest fan content being built.
I've tried myself to make a fansite with articles, links and all types of info for Conquest, in my (currently) futile attempts to push the game in the area of the world: https://conquest-castellano.wixsite.com/-esp
Not english of course, that's what Underspire is for.

VBS wrote:
Cool story, Shadow. I liked the three distinct points of view and how they converge.

It's nice to see Conquest fan content being built.
I've tried myself to make a fansite with articles, links and all types of info for Conquest, in my (currently) futile attempts to push the game in the area of the world: https://conquest-castellano.wixsite.com/-esp
Not english of course, that's what Underspire is for.

Thanks! And yeah, Conquest is hard to promote, mainly because many people are strongly against so big minis, especially used in the mass battles, where you need dozens of them. Hopefully the skirmish version will be easier to stomach for them.

Thats always made me wonder... why are the large minis bad for mass battles?

Or is it simply in mass battles you need a lot of models and people don't like to have a lot of models anymore and prefer games like AOS where they can do 20-30 model count armies.

The skirmish version is being playtested now. It is at warband scale (not killteam scale) so there is still a decent amount of models, just not as many as full game. (that was announced at the qa in March)

 auticus wrote:
Thats always made me wonder... why are the large minis bad for mass battles?

Or is it simply in mass battles you need a lot of models and people don't like to have a lot of models anymore and prefer games like AOS where they can do 20-30 model count armies.

The skirmish version is being playtested now. It is at warband scale (not killteam scale) so there is still a decent amount of models, just not as many as full game. (that was announced at the qa in March)

I guess it may be because people are used to 28mm scale (just as the were used to 25 mm before). Some do not like changes. Some wish to still play with their old minis. Some do not have enough table space. You could probably insert any reason out there. It does not change the fact that by choosing that scale, PBW made it not easy for themselves. If they succeed, which is what we all here wish for, then it will be even more sweeter victory, being so hard fought against all the odds.

From my observations, there are a couple of factors.

As we all know, skirmish games/low model count are the real deal nowadays. Rank&File definitely has its place, but in an instant-gratification/low-effort-reward society, the commitment of large armies is second tier.
I also think many people have some sort of cognitive dissonance or skewed perception when looking outside their preference. I've had people tell me that spending 250-400 Eur in a full army makes Conquest unattractive. Those same people have no problem buying 3 greater demons (yeah, that's 330 Eur) just to START their AoS army.
There is also complaining of having to buy and paint 80+ models for an army. Somehow, it appears that is no longer a problem if playing Skaven, Daughters of Khaine, Night Goblins, etc....
About the scale, many complain that Conquest minis "can't be used for other games". I don't see why? Also, it's not like everyone is concerned about double duty when buying models...
I really see no logic behind this way of thinking.
One of them even insisted that Conquest models must cost about 2/3 of their current price to be "worth it", because anything more is clearly over costed for what they offer. I have no clue how he came to that conclusion. However, it does make me want to go back to just paint and read fluff (as usual) instead of bothering introducing a new game.

Being in an area where there is only one gaming store doesn't help. 90% of the minis stocked are gw, which creates this repeating cycle of only gw games without giving others a chance. They have a couple of Conquest boxes in a corner, but the owner just wants to get rid of them. Mind you, he sells them at a higher price than rrp (ex: Raiders or Steel Legion for 40 Eur). Not the smartest way to "get rid of something" but hey, it's his business.

There is a little bit of that here as well. That being the "the scale is too big, I can't just use my aos / warhammer models to play so I'm not interested".

I have no answer for that to be honest.

I know one of the things people initially focused on was that the scale meant they couldn't use their existing terrain.

I was one of them!

But then the more I thought of it, for ranked mass battles?

You really aren't going to be running into - or through - terrain that will matter too much, scale-wise.

You'll want hills and trees - fairly scale agnostic given the relatively minor increase here - and any building or ruins shouldn't impact the immersion level too much.

Once I figured that part out, I was in!

I'm working on 100 Kingdoms and Dweghom, and Spires - since I ended up getting two starter sets!

Now, having said that, for the skirmish version of the game?

Terrain might be more of an issue, because in that game I'd imagine a lot more interaction with buildings, ruins, etc.

I am one of the playtesters for the skirmish game. I use my existing wargames collection and have not had an issue.

Yep, terrain scale doesn't show as much. Often negligible if the miniature difference is like 4-5mm.

I also think the "different scale=incompatible=automatic dislike" perception when looking into Conquest is a bit exaggerated. The trend set by the biggest/most popular company is constant scale creep, to the point that many Conquest miniatures work great for those other games. With time and as older models get phased out, it will be more apparent, probably reaching a very similar size across the board. Let's say Parabellum planned in advance

VBS wrote:


I also think the "different scale=incompatible=automatic dislike" perception when looking into Conquest is a bit exaggerated. The trend set by the biggest/most popular company is constant scale creep, to the point that many Conquest miniatures work great for those other games. With time and as older models get phased out, it will be more apparent, probably reaching a very similar size across the board.

That is also a VERY good point - GW's minis have been steadily getting larger for years, to the point where these days they're rather oversized themselves, for "28mm" gaming!

Anyway, Conquest is a lot of fun, with a whole new world to play in - good times!

AND... we get our companion rulebook with the full narrative and art very soon!! June 15th!!

I would like that in a skirmish version I would be able to field a Warband made of any Regiments, and commanded by any Character or even not commanded by any at all. I would still impose some limits:
1) You would be able to choose any Regiment with any Character present but you would be limited to only a single choice of that Regiment if you do not have a Character that would normally allow to field it. For example: Spires Warband led by a Pheromancer that includes Avatara cannot exceed a 1 Regiment limit for them, but if a Warband is led by a Highborne it can have up to 4 of the Avatara as per normal rules. Additionally you would be limited to no more than a half of your Warband consisting of Regiments normally not allowed for you Character. For example: Spires Warband led by a Pheromancer would be able to field 1 Avatara and 1 Desolation Beast, the rest of it would have to come from the list normally available for a Pheromancer.
2) A Warband without any Characters would be limited to only Mainstay Regiments chosen from any Character's list.

I was thinking about something similar, Shadow. If it's warband level, the variety will be quite restrained by the Character chosen with the current format. And some Characters like the Chapter Mage or even the Theist Priest will have a hard time.
It makes sense fluff-wise and balance-wise, as well as not problematic in terms of variety if you have multiple warbands for the classic Conquest game.

But for the skirmish game, it's a different story. Personally, I was thinking of each Character gets their Restricted options moved to Mainstay, while the rest of the otherwise unavailable faction roster moves to Restricted. You get full unit options, but with a minimum cohesion, while keeping the same warband selection philosophy. Whatever they do, I'm reeeally looking forward to it. Hopefully it's not to far away since it's currently being tested and will presumably just be made available online (no need to produce a book)....

By the way, since the founder's edition rulebooks have been shipped, will we see the v1.3 online on or before the 15th? Would be cool, eager to see the escort rules and read the sweet fluff!

I like your version, VBS. In fact, both of our proposals could be combined. In that way any Regiment from a different Character's list could be added to your Warband but limited to a single copy, and only as a Restricted choice.

I wish i could comment on the rules for the skirmish game here but alas I cannot.

I expect the 1.03 rules to be available on the website before the 15th yes. I can't promise that though. And the 15th is only two weeks away so either way we will see what all the changes are soon enough.

 auticus wrote:
I wish i could comment on the rules for the skirmish game here but alas I cannot.

Yeah, NDA can be frustrating sometimes to obey.

A Weather Generator is now available to download @underspire.net
https://www.underspire.net/downloads_content/

Makes fun games even more fun!

VBS wrote:
A Weather Generator is now available to download @underspire.net
https://www.underspire.net/downloads_content/

Makes fun games even more fun!

Nice addition to main rules, great job! As you suggest there, it will be most fun for narrative games.

https://www.underspire.net/general/fiction-contest-for-june/

Underspire writing contest. Winner gets my vanguard coupon for June, thats $100 out of the Para Bellum store!

Details within.

Might submit something if I find time. Though I wouldn't be competing for the prize (also get coupons and I don't even use it sometimes... hoarding just because it's free is not good!).

Guys, any info when 1.03 rules will be available?

Those who ordered the founder's bundle already have it. It is suppose to be out on the 15th, but not clear if that means the pdf will be available on Monday. Or if the books have already been shipped to receive early during the week, or on the contrary, only start to ship on Monday.

I bet the pdf will be available on Monday. Books will arrive during the week depending on mail service.

The books ship on the 15th. So if you preordered the book you will get it probably next weekend. No one knows when they will make the pdf available.

If I'm a betting man, it will be on the 15th.

2 votes for 15th then I hope you both are right. Cannot wait to see what has changed.

So 15th wasn't their goal. BTW the rules section does not work except quick links. Calendar here https://www.para-bellum.com/events/ says that the Companion release date is 22th so maybe next week we will see the 1.03 rules?

Yup, seems to have been pushed back a week.
Bummer as my hype was over the roof yesterday morning.

On other news, they added a new pic of the Avataras from another angle. Finally a good pic for the Lineage Highborn, looks so dope! The arms/weapon position now make sense