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We all know that the Primaris Marines are loyal to the Imperium of Man, and not even that's for certain because of the possibility of future Chaos Primaris.

My question is, who are they ultimately loyal too? Would they obey Roboute because he ordered their creation? Or Belisaurius because he made them? Or the Primarch whose chapter they were assigned too?

Question 2: Would there be a scenario where if one of the loyalist Primarchs turned to Chaos, Roboute could just turn a switch and have the Primaris Marines rebel on their former master?

During the Horus Heresy the vast majority of Marines followed their leaders to oblivion.

I don't see Cawl as the ultimate loyalty object for the Primaris, as long as he hasn't implanted a mind control switch in them, and despite them "affectionately" referring to him as as father figure.

At the moment, there aren't any other primarchs.
Primaris are no more immune to loyalty to their chapter masters than any marine - we've not seen traitor primaris but we have seen borderline renegade primaris in Spears of the Emperor - a chapter cut off and stuck fighting on its own for centuries is not entirely unjustified in being angry when the imperium turns up...

Like all Astartes Primaris are loyal to their chapter, Primarch and the Emperor. Their loyalty to the Emperor binds them to the Imperium and Guilliman.

The specific order of their loyalty probably varies from chapter to chapter and Marine to Marine. If any other loyal Primarchs come back most of his gene line chapters would transfer a lot of their loyalty to him. What would happen if he turned traitor is impossible to say, on the one hand they lack the personal connection the Heresy marines had but on the other many venerate their primarch almost to the point of worship.

In short I don’t see the Primaris as massively different than the old marines, their just the same old marines with a few extra organs and quite a bit more bland.

As you can tell I don’t buy into any of the order 66 or hidden loyalty speculation. No hidden kill switches or brainwashing. No Horus Heresy 2.0. At least that’s my hope

In both of the Dark Imperium books this is a point of contention. We are introduced to a squad of the Unnumbered Sons (or Greyshields) and some of their exploits in Girlyman's crusade. By the end of it they are split up to their parent chapters and they are pissed.

Their ultimate loyalty is to Girlyman and one another (the Space Wolf is especially hacked off at this). We see this continue in the second book as we see a Primaris struggle to integrate with his new brothers and does not see himself as a "true" Novamarine.

These are all the 1st generation ones though, who have a loyalty to Girlyman and not a chapter they have never known.

 Grimtuff wrote:
In both of the Dark Imperium books this is a point of contention. We are introduced to a squad of the Unnumbered Sons (or Greyshields) and some of their exploits in Girlyman's crusade. By the end of it they are split up to their parent chapters and they are pissed.

Their ultimate loyalty is to Girlyman and one another (the Space Wolf is especially hacked off at this). We see this continue in the second book as we see a Primaris struggle to integrate with his new brothers and does not see himself as a "true" Novamarine.

These are all the 1st generation ones though, who have a loyalty to Girlyman and not a chapter they have never known.

Yes but that space Wolf was pissed because he was being sent to a new successor chapter instead of the space wolves rather than because of the greyshields splitting, also that novamarine Primaris showed some early indications of beginning to accept his new brothers by the end.

But overall I agree a lot of the Grayshields didn’t want to split and also wanted to go to the 1st founding chapters when they did split. I also agree this first generation would be a lot more connected to Guilliman than Primaris produced by chapters from their own recruitment. But it’s been quite a while since the Indomitas Crusade so with constant recruitment and attrition I’d say locally recruited Primaris heavily outnumber 1st gen ones at this point.

 Grimtuff wrote:
In both of the Dark Imperium books this is a point of contention. We are introduced to a squad of the Unnumbered Sons (or Greyshields) and some of their exploits in Girlyman's crusade. By the end of it they are split up to their parent chapters and they are pissed.

Their ultimate loyalty is to Girlyman and one another (the Space Wolf is especially hacked off at this). We see this continue in the second book as we see a Primaris struggle to integrate with his new brothers and does not see himself as a "true" Novamarine.

These are all the 1st generation ones though, who have a loyalty to Girlyman and not a chapter they have never known.

the space wolf primaris was upset because he was being assigned to a new sucessor chapter rather then that the unumbered sons where broken up. it's not ahrd to blame him, being transfered to a sucessor chapter means he would be perminatly apart from his homeworld of Fenris. and unlike the other various 1st founding chapters, the space wolves had no sucessors he could look at and feel "they've done just as well so we should"

Wait: is there any Space Wolves successor chapter now ?

 godardc wrote:
Wait: is there any Space Wolves successor chapter now ?

yeah, the Wolf Spear

So the whole attack on Fenris by Magnus and his whole legio to make sure they never get successor, this whole piece of fluff too, is destroyed by muhhh primaris ?
GREAT.

 godardc wrote:
So the whole attack on Fenris by Magnus and his whole legio to make sure they never get successor, this whole piece of fluff too, is destroyed by muhhh primaris ?
GREAT.

So far the wolf spear are a throw away line in a novel. the codex never even MENTIONS them. it's possiable the Primaris Space Wolf sucessors didn't work out. that said, in an eternity of war no victory lasts forever

Essentially Guillerman is in the position that he is in because he is seen as the highest authority because he is the thing that exists that is closest to the emperor that you can be...atm. If say VULKAN showed up his sons would follow him to oblivion and probably disregard guillerman. But everyone else would probably treat vulkan the same as guillerman, but if one signs your pay checks and the other is just the brother of the dude that does....you see where im going with this?

Order 66

BrianDavion wrote:

 godardc wrote:
So the whole attack on Fenris by Magnus and his whole legio to make sure they never get successor, this whole piece of fluff too, is destroyed by muhhh primaris ?
GREAT.

So far the wolf spear are a throw away line in a novel. the codex never even MENTIONS them. it's possiable the Primaris Space Wolf sucessors didn't work out. that said, in an eternity of war no victory lasts forever

The Space Wolf codex was written at the same time as the Blood Angels and Dark Angels codexes and released late.
Is there any mention of Dark Imperium exclusive fluff in either of them?

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 godardc wrote:
So the whole attack on Fenris by Magnus and his whole legio to make sure they never get successor, this whole piece of fluff too, is destroyed by muhhh primaris ?
GREAT.

So far the wolf spear are a throw away line in a novel. the codex never even MENTIONS them. it's possiable the Primaris Space Wolf sucessors didn't work out. that said, in an eternity of war no victory lasts forever

The Space Wolf codex was written at the same time as the Blood Angels and Dark Angels codexes and released late.
Is there any mention of Dark Imperium exclusive fluff in either of them?

nothing from the novel in any as far as I know no. and it does sometimes take a bit for stuff from the novels to work their way in. codex Ultramarines lists Uriel Ventriss as the captain of 4th company and notes that he spent some time in exile for "uncodex like actions on Taris Ultra"

 FeindusMaximus wrote:
Order 66

when I read the dark imperium and spacifically the part where Girlyman is talking with the belasarius AI this is all i could think about, he keeps pushing for total control of the AD Mech and keeps being denied, I was thinking about the parallels drawn with Palpatine, and Order 66 built into the Primaris would be awesome.

 Beersarius Drawl wrote:

 FeindusMaximus wrote:
Order 66

when I read the dark imperium and spacifically the part where Girlyman is talking with the belasarius AI this is all i could think about, he keeps pushing for total control of the AD Mech and keeps being denied, I was thinking about the parallels drawn with Palpatine, and Order 66 built into the Primaris would be awesome.

thing is the mars born primaris are proably a minority now,