Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I got back into GW gaming at when 8th dropped.

Purchased hard into Tau, played a few games and found it meh. Played a few 2000pt games and decided I hated playing Tau. So I sold out of 40k. Around the start of the year I got into AoS and I'm enjoying it. I'm in the process of painting a Skaven army as they were my WHFB love back in the day. I also picked up Warcry for the terrain and that's kind of fun.

I'm kind of enjoying knowing there's a huge playerbase. I usually play Infinity (formerly Warmachine) and player numbers were on the smaller side. I'm currently taking a break from Infinity, waiting for Wildfire to ship. I may end up taking a break until N4 drops at the end of the year, I don't know.

But anyway, I'm thinking about dipping my toes back into 40k. But I need some pointers as I don't want to blow my wallet and get ripped off again.

What army/s would you suggest, with the following criteria:

a) Commonly available on the secondhand market to keep costs down.
b) Mid to upper power level. Something that can hold it's own but doesn't have to be amazing.
c) Moderate number of models. ie; not Guard dudespam or Titans for days.
d) Probably not soup, but Chaos with a titan would be fine.
e) Something that can actually take and hold objectives, unlike Tau.

...

I like the look off..

Any CSM related faction. Black Legion, Death Guard, World Eaters..
Daemons.
Drukhari.
Eldar.
Genestealer cults.

Ideas?

 Obeisance wrote:


What army/s would you suggest, with the following criteria:

a) Commonly available on the secondhand market to keep costs down.
b) Mid to upper power level. Something that can hold it's own but doesn't have to be amazing.
c) Moderate number of models. ie; not Guard dudespam or Titans for days.
d) Probably not soup, but Chaos with a titan would be fine.
e) Something that can actually take and hold objectives, unlike Tau.

Craftworlds. You can run a small force that can do most of these things you are looking for and has such a wide berth of models on the second hand market(especially aspects and troops) that you should be able to buy most of them secondhand.

Of those, CSM fit most, if not all, of your criteria. GSC tend to have a lot of models and aren't so readily available second hand as many of their units are fairly new. Daemons can become quite model-heavy too with certain builds. Eldar and Dark Eldar have plenty of second-hand models for the most part and can be quite powerful, though Dark Eldar are a frustrating army to build due to their unique army list restrictions, which will be exacerbated if you're not using soup.

So I'd say go with CSM. They're fun to paint, offer a lot of variety, and can be made into a fairly powerful army if you want, without stomping all over everyone.

Genestealers are rather model intensive and expensive on top of it.

Chaos Marines could work but the new models are really expensive. (and don't get full basic equipment)

You can bypass that with kitbashing and modelling and there is a vast, and i mean vast market for the old squat marines and ofcourse for 3rd parties.
The new marine dex for once looks actually like fun.


Edit: It also helps that CSM are really charachter heavy.

One thought is you could go for Chaos Demons. You can then ally in a Chaos Knight if you want; but also the core of the demon army is basically identical to the AoS demon army. About the only difference (that I can see) is that the cavalry (eg seekers) in AoS use an oval base whilst in 40K they use the thinner (but about just as long) bike base (personally I use the larger AoS base).
So you can build them up and if you really find you don't like current 40K you've still got a great iconic display model in the Knight whilst you've also got a demon army that you can use in AoS.

Probably CSM.

Though if you went Demons you'll have the advantage that if you toss 40k again your models will still be useful in AoS.

Deathguard are your answer! Loads of em available on ebay. They are a solid mid tier competitive choice that gets a little beefier when/if you feel ready to jump to forgeworld.

They are also a decent beginner army because their resilience mean that even with mistakes they stick around and give you options through to the end game.

You can start to soup in daemons or other CSM if you feel like it.

They have a primarch who is an awesome model and a total beatstick. When you play Mortarion you put your opponent on a doomsday clock. Theyv'e got 1 turn to kill him or they get murdered in a gory spray of feculent blood and guts.

You probably won't contend in tournaments if thats your goal but with practice you can win games against almost anything

On the ebay and cheaper side "Wrath and Rapture" is still in stock in many places so you can get a cheap block core of Khorne and Slaanesh demons in one go. In AoS they can't be direct allies of each other (unless allied through taking an army like slaves or as a grand alliance chaos) but I don't think there's any limit in 40K.

One thought though is that in AoS now the demons are more fragmented than they once were and each god basically has their own army. So it might help if you think of crossing over the two, of having one of the four be you "core" and then build the others in as support, since there are ally limits in AoS and the "Grand Alliance" armies are not as effective to use.

 Obeisance wrote:


Any CSM related faction. Black Legion, Death Guard, World Eaters..
Daemons.
Drukhari.
Eldar.
Genestealer cults.

Ideas?

1. Genestealer Cults is gonna violate your wallet hard. Not an army if you wanna be frugal in any shape or form.

2. Craftworld Eldar (pure) are fairly one-dimensionally shooty. If you didn't enjoy that with Tau, I wouldn't recommend.

3. Drukhari. A mix of Kabal and Coven could be something you enjoy. Ravager sit back and shoot, Talos and/or Grotesques take the middle of the board. Venoms jet around the board. You can also sprinkle in Harlequins and Craftworld to taste. Be prepared to convert Grotesques though.

4. Daemons without soup is probably a non-starter. Daemons, if you're willing to throw in some Death Guard or TS characters / utility units is certainly strong and does take boardcontrol well

5. If you wouldn't mind a Titan, how about 2-3 Chaos Knights with some CSM for CP (Red Corsairs), perhaps a Sorcerer and/or Lord Discordant for utility, etc.. That's a solid army to have a lot of fun with.

of the criteria you suggested I'm going to suggest something off your lsit to consider.

Space Marines, bog standard Vanilla Space Marines. They're going to be easy as hell to find second hand. (thanks to the number of boxed sets that came out since 8th started even Primaris should be easy eneugh to assmble a force of second hand)
Their new codex just dropped and people haven't figured out it's exact placement so far but it's looking like it's going to be one of the strongest mono faction codexes in 8th edition.
Space Marines obviously aren't a hoard army, but nor are they Knights of Custodes.
And they actually have ADVANTAGES to not souping. And Marines should be able to take and hold objectives, intercessor squads can now be suprisingly choppy.


So yeah I'm gonna reccomend Space Marines.

Holy crap, lot of replies fast. I was kind of assuming forums were dead and I didn't want to hunt down a 40k fb group.

Craftworlds - Ehhhhh. To be honest, I kind of hate Eldar. The models, the theme, they're awful and I'm glad they're a dying race. Even though I said I liked them, I honestly don't think I could.

CSM in general - Yeah. Stupid expensive. I looked at the price of a box of 10 CSM dudes for the first time in years. I remember them being about 50$AUD.. they were like 98$AUD. What the everloving fvck.

Noted: GSK are too expensive. Hard pass.

Daemons. I thought about starting Daemons, but the new Keeper is just insanely expensive and that alone mitigates the whole point, really. Being new and in demand, I don't think I could get anything secondhand.

...

So Death Guard and Dark Eldar. Can anyone provide me with a couple sample army lists for each, to get a feel for what the armies look like?

I really do like the DG models and it'd be a fun painting project.

With DG thats a difficut question to answer.
A typical list will have some core to it but I kind of think down a mental flowchart
1. Do I want Mortarion
2. Do I want to soup
3. Where am I getting my troops from

You have the option and synergy of adding in Nurge daemons for the best troop unit in the game in the form of plaguebearers with sloppity and a pox bringer.

If you want to play Mono DG
Winged DP of Nurgle
Plague caster
Your choice of poxwalkers or Plaguemarines
Foetid bloat drones
3 PBC's with spitters

Thats a decent core list and you will tweak it depending on how you might handle your troops choice. Neither poxwalker or plaguemarines are strong choices but each can play a solid game and hold objectoves well. If you want to play Poxwalkers grab Typhus and if plaguemarines then myphitic blight haulers.

if you've got pints spare add in Blightlord terminators which are DG's MVP's. So much resilience, so much damage output with flails. Deep strike them in and watch your oppononent squirm

 Obeisance wrote:


Daemons. I thought about starting Daemons, but the new Keeper is just insanely expensive and that alone mitigates the whole point, really. Being new and in demand, I don't think I could get anything secondhand.

...

Bare in mind the new keeper is MASSIVE compared to the old one. At least twice in most directions; just ilke how the other greater demons are a lot bigger than their old versions.

Dark Eldar are massively expensive If you want a decently powerful Army. You're gonna need Transports for every 5-10 men
And ravagers which are Webstore exclusive If you want to go kabal or If you want coven you're gonna need lots of grotesques which can be taken in squads of 10 and are 41aus$ EACH.

I guess thats not your Cup of tea

Interesting. What's considered competitive for DG?

I'd actually consider Nurgle soup. I like the Daemons and I would like a titan kit.

Does.Mortarion get shot off the table?

Does DG play with rhinos? How does it objective grab?

Competitive mono DG will be running forgeworld contemptor or deredeo dreads. These benefit from the DG trait for hellbrutes being able to move and fire heavy weapons without penalty.

The more competitive lists look to run Nurgle battalions of Plaguebearers with DG PBC's and Blightlord terminators. Have a look at the Tactics thread for some discussion of the merits of these units.

Mortarion is massive and he's virtually impossible to hide and can be targetted straightaway. The current meta is Imperial/chaos knight heavy so a lot of competitive lists are able to shoot a knight off the table in 1 turn and these can usually do for Morty as well. There are ways around this like casting Miasma on himself to get -1 to hit and running Deathshroud body guards that can soak wounds for him. These are options to play with but the deathshroud are expensive and a lot of folk do without them. He has the standard 5+ disgustingly resilient against all wounds so good dice rolling can annoy shooting armies. In casual games he's dirty strong.

Rhinos are a funny one because no one really uses rhino's due to their cost effectiveness. I've had some success with a unit of Plaguemarines in a rhino with the putrifier and foul blightspawn driving up and unloading blight grenades but most people are wise to that and pop the rhino early. However if Morty is around rhino's tend to survive a turn longer.

 Obeisance wrote:
Interesting. What's considered competitive for DG?

I'd actually consider Nurgle soup. I like the Daemons and I would like a titan kit.

Depends on how competitive you need to be.
For tournaments or very competitive playing groups, you'll be looking at daemon troops with blightlord terminators, foul blightspawns, daemon prince and daemon troops, usually supported by FW dreads.
If you are swimming in a mostly mono-codex meta where people are not dropping big bucks on the new best thing all the time, large parts of the codex become viable. Drones, PBC, blighthaulers, pox walkers and plague marines are perfectly viable.

Does.Mortarion get shot off the table?

Short answer is yes. My meta is not that competitive, but he still dies turn one every other game. When people try to focus down other things he goes on an unstoppable rampage and usually wins me the game, but I consider that a playing error. Still, shooting him off the table often takes their entire army, which means they are basically skipping their first turn.

Does DG play with rhinos?

You can run melee marines or possessed in rhinos, but it won't be winning tournaments. Keep in mind that marines can no longer shoot out of them, making them mostly useless outside of delivering close combat units.

How does it objective grab?

Plague bearers or nurglings or pox walkers or plague marines sit on objectives and refuse to be killed.

So the take away for me is..

Don't bother with Rhinos, run multiple units of foot marines and plaguebearers.

Mortarion/Blightlords aren't needed, but are cool.

I don't see myself forking out for Forgeworld stuff. I don't ever know what Contenptors are. I know there's competitive 40k locally and the tournament scene is booming.

So DG is kind of wound/FNP skew?

 Obeisance wrote:

I don't see myself forking out for Forgeworld stuff. I don't ever know what Contenptors are.

It's a "new" type of Dreadnaught introduced into the 30k variant of the game (books by Forge World) & brought forward into 40k & plastic. They're in the Marine Codex, though Chaos has access to them via the FW Index: Chaos volume. Of course FW makes lovely expensive resin versions of them.
I'd pick up the FW Chaos index. You can always scratch build stuff.

 Obeisance wrote:

So DG is kind of wound/FNP skew?

That is their thing.

Before diving into a full army, you might want to try Kill Team. If you like using a KT’s worth of dudes, you pretty much have your first squad or two made for your starting army.

regarding death guard s a good place to START is the Know no Fear or Dark Imperium Box. you can proably buy the death guard half of it off ebay pretty cheap know no fear gives you 10 plague walkers, 5 deathguard, a deamon engine whose name I forget, and a captain in terminator armor. you should be able to find it on ebay for around 50 USDs or less

BrianDavion wrote:
regarding death guard s a good place to START is the Know no Fear or Dark Imperium Box. you can proably buy the death guard half of it off ebay pretty cheap know no fear gives you 10 plague walkers, 5 deathguard, a deamon engine whose name I forget, and a captain in terminator armor. you should be able to find it on ebay for around 50 USDs or less

Both of these are perfectly good to buy the whole box, really. Marines just got a power boost with a new codex.

Quick note, the nurgle daemons I.e. plague bearers/nurglings have a very basic rules entry in the death guard book intended for summoning. If you use them to start on the board/part of the list however, they actually break the death guard faction bonus. If you want nurgle daemons in the army and on the board turn 1 you need the daemons book as well for the extra rules, relics and powers.

 John Prins wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
regarding death guard s a good place to START is the Know no Fear or Dark Imperium Box. you can proably buy the death guard half of it off ebay pretty cheap know no fear gives you 10 plague walkers, 5 deathguard, a deamon engine whose name I forget, and a captain in terminator armor. you should be able to find it on ebay for around 50 USDs or less

Both of these are perfectly good to buy the whole box, really. Marines just got a power boost with a new codex.

ohh agreed. but they didn't seem intreasted in vanilla marines, still I bet a number of folks snagged Dark imperium to build a space marine army in the aftermath of the boost so the DG part outta be plenty cheap on ebay

I'm not sure if you have 40k conquest in Oz. I've been starting a death guard army over the last couple of months, picked up a few issues that looked good value, along with the plethora of models people area selling after breaking up/getting bored of the starter sets. So far I've spent £80 and I have almost 1500 points. This is all new on sprue except I bought a beat up loyalist Dreadnaught for £6 that I plan to nurglify into a helbrute.
Death guard seems to be a really cheap army to collect, with the starter sets on eBay, Conquest magazine and lots of 'easy to build' kits that are good value. How many armies have 100+ point vehicles you can buy new for £12?