Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok, I got a problem with the stratagem Frenetic bloodlust. I don't know if I read it wrong, use it wrong or i'm lost in translation (English is my second language).

Frenetic Bloodlust (3CP): use at the end of any fight phase. A Khorne Daemon unit can fight again.

The way I interpreted it is you fight again, what ever the situation. You destroyed a unit, you do your 3 inch move to another unit and be in contact, you can fight a new fight, or, if you have 3 units charging the same unit, but after killing that unit, you in the 1 inch contact zone (think about a line of grots in front of a unit or orks). How I read it, Frenetic Bloodlust give me another fight again those new targets.

In the same line of though, Single-Mind Annihilation (Use at the end of the shooting phase. A Tyranid INFANTRY unit can shoot again) You can choose a new target! Same wording, same action, or same wording two different interpretation.

At the end, the single biggest advantage for mono daemons of khorne player again other armies again everybody work only again the unit you have charged, does it mean I store my army in a shoes box or I multiple charge unit all the time event if is out of the charging range (to be just in case) and use Frenetic Bloodlust in the way it should be use (charge, kill, advance, kill more)….. … … .. .

What is your problem ? With the khorne stratagem you fight again at the end of the fight phase. Remember, you can only attack units you declared a charge against. You do get to pile in and consolidate, when you get to fight again, even if there are no enemy units within 1".

I think he is saying he wants to be able to pile in and fight a new target with the strat, regardless of whether he declared it a charge target or not since other armies can shoot twice at new targets with no penalties.


Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I think he is saying he wants to be able to pile in and fight a new target with the strat, regardless of whether he declared it a charge target or not since other armies can shoot twice at new targets with no penalties.


Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

You do get to pile in, but you can't make any of the attacks against units you didn't declare against. That still counts as "fighting", so you are still doing what the Strat says.

 Stux wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I think he is saying he wants to be able to pile in and fight a new target with the strat, regardless of whether he declared it a charge target or not since other armies can shoot twice at new targets with no penalties.


Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

You do get to pile in, but you can't make any of the attacks against units you didn't declare against. That still counts as "fighting", so you are still doing what the Strat says.

Now i'm lost... Pile in is part of the fighting.... mean if I want the Strat to work on the unite I want to pile in, I need do declare multiple charges because I know I will destroyed the first unite and I want to hit the second unit !?

you can only attack a unit you declared a charge against(in the turn that you charged), but the pile doesn't care about who you charged, just that you go to the closest enemy model

Yes. If you charged that turn, the only units you can actually make attacks against are units you declared a charge against. So if you want to use the strat to attack multiple units on the turn you charge, they all have to be declared as targets when you charge (so they all have to be eligible charge targets at that point).

You can still Pile In using the strat, even to get within 1" of a unit you didn't declare a charge against, but you can't actually make attacks against them.

If you didn't charge you can attack anyone your pile-in moves will get you within 1" of.

 hellpato wrote:

 Stux wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I think he is saying he wants to be able to pile in and fight a new target with the strat, regardless of whether he declared it a charge target or not since other armies can shoot twice at new targets with no penalties.


Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

You do get to pile in, but you can't make any of the attacks against units you didn't declare against. That still counts as "fighting", so you are still doing what the Strat says.

Now i'm lost... Pile in is part of the fighting.... mean if I want the Strat to work on the unite I want to pile in, I need do declare multiple charges because I know I will destroyed the first unite and I want to hit the second unit !?

Basically yes. But remember you can only declare against units within 12" before you charge. Anything further away than that it will be impossible for your to make attacks against, regardless of how far you end up moving.

To try and make this 100% Clear, there are three parts of Fight (technically 6 if you look in the rulebook, but I am simplifying):
1. Pile In
2. Make Attacks
3. Consolidate

You do all three steps whenever you Fight, so using Frenetic Bloodlust allows you to do all three. Two importantly Notes:
1. Charge: If you charged during the prior Charge Phase, you are forbidden from making attacks against any unit you did not Charge. You can however select a unit that is not within 1" of an enemy model as a target for this Stratagem if it Charged. Unless there is a serious downside, always charge additional targets if you think you can use this Stratagem.
2. Didn't Charge: You can't use this Stratagem on unit that didn't charge unless it is within 1" of enemy models because it is not eligible to Fight during the Fight phase.

 alextroy wrote:
To try and make this 100% Clear, there are three parts of Fight (technically 6 if you look in the rulebook, but I am simplifying):
1. Pile In
2. Make Attacks
3. Consolidate

You do all three steps whenever you Fight, so using Frenetic Bloodlust allows you to do all three. Two importantly Notes:
1. Charge: If you charged during the prior Charge Phase, you are forbidden from making attacks against any unit you did not Charge. You can however select a unit that is not within 1" of an enemy model as a target for this Stratagem if it Charged. Unless there is a serious downside, always charge additional targets if you think you can use this Stratagem.
2. Didn't Charge: You can't use this Stratagem on unit that didn't charge unless it is within 1" of enemy models because it is not eligible to Fight during the Fight phase.

The quote I blacken... I need explanation... how I understand it, because they are at 1" of the unit who had been charged, I can use the stratagem at the end of the fight phase on that unit?

 hellpato wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
To try and make this 100% Clear, there are three parts of Fight (technically 6 if you look in the rulebook, but I am simplifying):
1. Pile In
2. Make Attacks
3. Consolidate

You do all three steps whenever you Fight, so using Frenetic Bloodlust allows you to do all three. Two importantly Notes:
1. Charge: If you charged during the prior Charge Phase, you are forbidden from making attacks against any unit you did not Charge. You can however select a unit that is not within 1" of an enemy model as a target for this Stratagem if it Charged. Unless there is a serious downside, always charge additional targets if you think you can use this Stratagem.
2. Didn't Charge: You can't use this Stratagem on unit that didn't charge unless it is within 1" of enemy models because it is not eligible to Fight during the Fight phase.

The quote I blacken... I need explanation... how I understand it, because they are at 1" of the unit who had been charged, I can use the stratagem at the end of the fight phase on that unit?

Part 2 is referring to a unit that didn't charge, but had an enemy somehow get within 1" of it in its own charge phase, generally though an enemy Heroic Intervention.

Also, you can use Frenetic Bloodlust during your opponent's turn. You just need to be within 1" of enemy models at the end of the Fight Phase. There are many ways to be within 1" of enemy models at the end of your opponent's turn.

Thank for all the help guys to understand the stratagem. I think I played it right all the time and the only way to make it effectives is to declare everything a target for charge. Mono Khorne are now (with the new SM) behind rank at the weakest of the 40K and will be back in the shoes box and in the closet for a longue time until Daemons 2.0.... sad sad sad for monokhornist.

 hellpato wrote:
Thank for all the help guys to understand the stratagem. I think I played it right all the time and the only way to make it effectives is to declare everything a target for charge. Mono Khorne are now (with the new SM) behind rank at the weakest of the 40K and will be back in the shoes box and in the closet for a longue time until Daemons 2.0.... sad sad sad for monokhornist.

That's not really the case. If you've killed everything you declared a charge against then you've likely wiped out a big chunk of the enemy, which is good for you. If you haven't, then the strat is good for making sure you do. If you're in later rounds of combat the strat is still good for getting extra attacks from your key close combat units. You don't have to declare everything as a charge target, just one unit more than you expect to be able to kill can make the strat worth it.