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2019/08/24 12:35:47
Subject: When did GW start using computers to lay out codexes?
I've been looking through some old GW books and it's been fascinating to see the evolution in art style and graphic design over the years.
Photoshop wasn't invented until 1987 and apparently wasn't an industry-standard tool in publishing until around 1994. The concept of "layers" didn't even exist until Photoshop 3.0 was released in 1994, so I'm assuming GW was still doing layouts the old-fashioned way until the mid-90s at least.
I'm curious about how "cutting edge" GW was with regards to digital tools back then and at what point they made the switch from analog to digital. What's the last thing published by GW that was laid out by hand, I wonder?
Does anyone know when GW started using digital image editing software to do their print layouts for rulebooks and codexes?
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2019/08/24 14:03:07
Subject: When did GW start using computers to lay out codexes?
Maybe they used both. I don't know much about the specific software that was used in the publishing industry at the time, just that Photoshop would have been a big deal around then and would have been extremely useful for laying out graphics. It certainly would have been a lot better than cutting and pasting together page layouts with scissors and glue!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MarkNorfolk wrote: I seem to remember an old recruitment ad for GW where experience in Quark Xpress was required.
Interesting! Never heard of that program before. But if you saw an old recruitment ad for it, that must have been what they were using. Looks like it was released for Windows in 1992. Do you by chance remember what year you saw the ad?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/24 14:15:18
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2019/08/24 14:34:25
Subject: When did GW start using computers to lay out codexes?
Mentions GW using apple macs and Amstrad PCWs in the 80s.
Once you hit the 90s there was a lot more desktop publishing to choose from.
Awesome find! I just read the whole thing. It sounds like at minimum they were using software to handle text and typesetting at that point. After that was completed, they'd pass it over to someone else (?) to handle the layout. The question is, did they continue using software for laying out all the graphics and illustrations? Could desktop publishing software even handle stuff like large, full color illustrations and photography before the days of Photoshop?
Interesting stuff.
Spoiler:
We also persuaded an Amstrad PCW (horrid, horrid machines, but they were what GW had settled on) to squirt text over to a Macintosh, and to replace text formatting codes with matching DTP tags before it went. Text got keyed in once, copy-edited by Graeme or myself, and then I could typeset a 64-page book to galley stage in a few minutes. After that it was a question of art and map requirements and allocation, putting it all in a pleasing layout, and Bob was our metaphorical Uncle. The time consuming bits were making sure the layouts worked well, would accept text automatically, and that pages didn’t look awful or too busy. We wanted our stuff to be books that people used in games until they fell to bits, not bought and didn’t bother reading.
We had complete access to Tony’s archive of Warhammer imagery, which was immense. Although most people probably never noticed, nearly all the smaller artwork in Flame books came out of Tony’s previous work. That meant he could spend his time doing a few double-page or single-page illustrations with real impact; the rest of the art was from stock. Tony was also a wizard with a process camera, and could manipulate his archive images with that as well, something that was definitely not trivial then. Now it’s different, of course, with Photoshop and the zillion other programs. Doing that stuff back in the day was deucedly clever.
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2019/08/24 17:10:37
Subject: When did GW start using computers to lay out codexes?
Desktop Publishing and image editing (e.g. Photoshop) are totally different things - Adobe’s DTP package is InDesign. Even once they’d moved from physical pasting up to DTP a lot of the art would be hand-painted then scanned in.
They were using computer layout software by about 1990 because I remember seeing a job advert in White Dwarf looking for Quark Xpress experience back then. One of the recentStormcast episodes briefly touches on the change to the most recent software.
2019/08/24 17:52:34
Subject: When did GW start using computers to lay out codexes?
I suppose Quark Xpress must have been the equivalent of InDesign back then? But without color or extensive image editing features like modern day InDesign? Interesting.
So DTP software was used pretty early on, even if the artwork remained hand-painted/scanned in all the way until the late 90s or some time afterward.
That would mean all of the art/graphic assets for the 2nd and 3rd edition books were created by hand, then scanned in and laid out for print in Quark. Does that sound about right?
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2019/08/24 19:48:27
Subject: When did GW start using computers to lay out codexes?
slave.entity wrote: That would mean all of the art/graphic assets for the 2nd and 3rd edition books were created by hand, then scanned in and laid out for print in Quark. Does that sound about right?
Scanned painted artwork. You can still buy prints of a lot of it.
Desktop publishing packages back then would just show downscaled versions of the images to get around system memory limits while sending the full resolution image to the printer.
2019/08/24 21:16:17
Subject: Re:When did GW start using computers to lay out codexes?
The Forgemaster wrote: I really liked the artwork in the 3.5 chaos codex. much better than any artwork in later dexes.
There is definitely a great feel to the earlier books where you can see the texture of the paint and brush strokes in the illustrated graphic design elements.
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2019/08/25 01:37:04
Subject: When did GW start using computers to lay out codexes?
A lot of game companies still used scissors and paste to layout pages until the mid nineties (and it showed). Palladium hung on to it longer than pretty much anyone, because Siembedia was and is a bit of a nut (he was using hand cranked copiers longer than most high schools, at least according to some of the freelancers that had the misfortune to work with him).
I can believe GW switched a little early, but a lot of the third edition codexes still look like they were done at least partially by hand, with text stuffed under big block headers. Though that may also have been a matter of inexperience and the limits of the software at the time.
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2019/08/25 10:21:11
Subject: When did GW start using computers to lay out codexes?
slave.entity wrote: What were those things capable of? Were they for black and white layouts only or did they also handle color photography and artwork?
The 80s PCW? 720×256 monochrome bitmap graphics.
Technologically speaking it was garbage, but it was also dirt cheap at £400 including printing where an IBM system would cost upwards of £2400. At the time other cheap 8 bit rivals were either using more expensive memory (BBC) or had shot themselves in the foot (commodore) allowing Amstrad to undercut everyone.
2019/09/01 17:02:03
Subject: When did GW start using computers to lay out codexes?
slave.entity wrote: What were those things capable of? Were they for black and white layouts only or did they also handle color photography and artwork?
The 80s PCW? 720×256 monochrome bitmap graphics.
Technologically speaking it was garbage, but it was also dirt cheap at £400 including printing where an IBM system would cost upwards of £2400. At the time other cheap 8 bit rivals were either using more expensive memory (BBC) or had shot themselves in the foot (commodore) allowing Amstrad to undercut everyone.
Nice little bit of history in this thread. Thanks for your responses and thanks to everyone who chimed in!
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2019/09/01 17:06:52
Subject: When did GW start using computers to lay out codexes?
slave.entity wrote: I suppose Quark Xpress must have been the equivalent of InDesign back then? But without color or extensive image editing features like modern day InDesign? Interesting.
So DTP software was used pretty early on, even if the artwork remained hand-painted/scanned in all the way until the late 90s or some time afterward.
That would mean all of the art/graphic assets for the 2nd and 3rd edition books were created by hand, then scanned in and laid out for print in Quark. Does that sound about right?
Hey, just to let you know that Quark is still going strong, and along with InDesign (and the newcomer, Affinity) is one of the main desktop publishing programs in the business. They all have very similar functionality, with InDesign probably being the best and most straight forward.