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Not Online!!! wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:
My scorpion is 700 pts and completely poops on knights on the reg. It also just completely poops on most enemy armies in a semi-competitive environment with orions and knights and FW dreads everywhere. One of the most fun LoW units you can buy IMHO.

Brass scorpion?

Scorpion super-heavy grav tank. Check my P/M thread in my sig

 slave.entity wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 slave.entity wrote:
My scorpion is 700 pts and completely poops on knights on the reg. It also just completely poops on most enemy armies in a semi-competitive environment with orions and knights and FW dreads everywhere. One of the most fun LoW units you can buy IMHO.

Brass scorpion?

Scorpion super-heavy grav tank. Check my P/M thread in my sig

Don't get my hopes up, last time i looked at a brass scorpions rules i laughed my ass off.

My Stompa is a "thrifty" 1100 pts, and gets pooped on by 300 pt Knights on the regular. Kinda sad that 3 Gorkz, which still costs 200 pts less than a Stompa, are better than it is in literally every arena.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Delete the Super-Heavy and Super-Heavy Auxiliary detachments, remove the Lord of War slot from the Supreme Command detachment, put one Lord of War slot in the Brigade, and allow any Imperium force to have a Knight as a LoW. The issue is not and has never been a Knight, it has always been Knights as a standalone Codex.

You win, in my opinion.

Take some storm bolters ans shoot tem to knee cap

Amai wrote:
Take some storm bolters ans shoot tem to knee cap

VotLW would actually make that work occasionally

 flandarz wrote:
My Stompa is a "thrifty" 1100 pts, and gets pooped on by 300 pt Knights on the regular. Kinda sad that 3 Gorkz, which still costs 200 pts less than a Stompa, are better than it is in literally every arena.

Exactly. Gw has arbitrarily point costed certain low out of usefulness (notice I didn't say competitiveness don't care about that). I'm hoping that this year's ca will reverse last year's increase. Although the idea of a sanely priced fellblade or falchion in an iron hands army could be scary. I'd really just be happy if they would just let the hellforged low move and fire heavy weapons without -1 to hit like every other super heavy that I know of. That would at least make the points a little more worth it.

I think 2 main issues with knights:

4++ is too powerful on a 20+ w model. Yes you can only do it on one and it costs CP but thats enough. 5++ max for all titanic unless you pay a huge point or cp tax.

The tap dancing in cc is stupid. If you bring a dual gun knight gun your cc ability should be crap. Like 4 atracks max crap.. If you want to have cc capability you should load out accordingly.

 Argive wrote:
I think 2 main issues with knights:

4++ is too powerful on a 20+ w model. Yes you can only do it on one and it costs CP but thats enough. 5++ max for all titanic unless you pay a huge point or cp tax.

The tap dancing in cc is stupid. If you bring a dual gun knight gun your cc ability should be crap. Like 4 atracks max crap.. If you want to have cc capability you should load out accordingly.

A ranged knight will do 8 hits in melee, compared to a melee knight doing 12,5 hits and that's assuming it's a situation where the melee weapon is not superior to the stomps (which it rarely is, but still). I think the tap-dancing makes a tonne of sense, Knights are huge they should be able to crush things with their feet. If you take away the melee they might as well just be regular tanks since they don't have any benefits in regards to moving over stuff except when falling back. I think most tanks are way too bad at crushing bodies, I don't have any experience running people over, but a 70-tonne tank going 50 KM/H should be able to run over more than one Grot every other Fight phase.

 vict0988 wrote:

 Argive wrote:
I think 2 main issues with knights:

4++ is too powerful on a 20+ w model. Yes you can only do it on one and it costs CP but thats enough. 5++ max for all titanic unless you pay a huge point or cp tax.

The tap dancing in cc is stupid. If you bring a dual gun knight gun your cc ability should be crap. Like 4 atracks max crap.. If you want to have cc capability you should load out accordingly.

A ranged knight will do 8 hits in melee, compared to a melee knight doing 12,5 hits and that's assuming it's a situation where the melee weapon is not superior to the stomps (which it rarely is, but still). I think the tap-dancing makes a tonne of sense, Knights are huge they should be able to crush things with their feet. If you take away the melee they might as well just be regular tanks since they don't have any benefits in regards to moving over stuff except when falling back. I think most tanks are way too bad at crushing bodies, I don't have any experience running people over, but a 70-tonne tank going 50 KM/H should be able to run over more than one Grot every other Fight phase.

That is still more attacks, ap and damage than majority of dedicated cc monsters and characters. It makes sense against infantry I guess. But what the knight steps on the toes of another knight? Kicks em in the shin?

 Argive wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

 Argive wrote:
I think 2 main issues with knights:

4++ is too powerful on a 20+ w model. Yes you can only do it on one and it costs CP but thats enough. 5++ max for all titanic unless you pay a huge point or cp tax.

The tap dancing in cc is stupid. If you bring a dual gun knight gun your cc ability should be crap. Like 4 atracks max crap.. If you want to have cc capability you should load out accordingly.

A ranged knight will do 8 hits in melee, compared to a melee knight doing 12,5 hits and that's assuming it's a situation where the melee weapon is not superior to the stomps (which it rarely is, but still). I think the tap-dancing makes a tonne of sense, Knights are huge they should be able to crush things with their feet. If you take away the melee they might as well just be regular tanks since they don't have any benefits in regards to moving over stuff except when falling back. I think most tanks are way too bad at crushing bodies, I don't have any experience running people over, but a 70-tonne tank going 50 KM/H should be able to run over more than one Grot every other Fight phase.

That is still more attacks, ap and damage than majority of dedicated cc monsters and characters. It makes sense against infantry I guess. But what the knight steps on the toes of another knight? Kicks em in the shin?

A Gallant does ‭1,56‬x damage against GEQ, ‭2,44x against KEQ compared to a Crusader. Being inside a falling Knight would be like being in a aircraft crash, simply tripping up the enemy might be enough to take the rider out of the picture. Simply using the weight of his knight it might be possible for its rider to wrestle his opponent to the ground, it might even be useful to use the barrel of a cannon as leverage, that might damage the gun, but it could be part of a last ditch effort to tackle an enemy knight. A Knight on the ground is basically already dead, but 8th is a very incremental system and doesn't have the language to explain such a tackle and a fight, instead it gets simplified into a simple 5,33 damage each turn on average, which isn't really a lot better than a Captain with a TH or an Overlord with a voidscythe. A lot of melee units are also quite laughable I'd argue, Dreadnoughts are primarilly run as pure shooty and my two centipede monsters are both pretty meh in the melee compartment. I really hope Knights get few or no buffs in CA19 and other factions get a lot more love relative to them, but I don't think it's right to hurt knights, even the Crusader on the melee side of things. Pts (relative to other factions) and CP costs I'd love to see adjusted.