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According to Index Astartes: Dark Angels (page 28 of the new WD), when explaining why Captain Lazarus became the first Primaris in the Inner Circle...

Why would crossing the Rubicon Primaris be better at preserving a wounded marine than a Dreadnought's Sarcophagus?

because the marine could survive the process and still have all of his faculties where as a Dread the marine is technically dead but kept kinda sorta alive, they eventually lose their faculties though.

It depends on the nature of the injuries, Primaris conversion would basicly mean regrowing bones etc so it might serve. also not all Marines can be put into a dreadnought. this passage from spear's of the emperor is worth noting.

ow he was weak. Helpless. Enslaved in a way – not bound into servitude as I’d been enslaved, but bound within a useless shell. Too weak to live. Too alive to die. Even theoretical talk of internment within a Dreadnought chassis became moot once I saw the scans myself: Nar Kezar and his Basilisk torturers had burned away many of the neural pathways that were necessary for integration inside a war machine’s sarcophagus. There was no question that it was anything but intentional.With malicious cunning, they’d denied him even the living death of a Dreadnought’s existence.And that was vicious enough, aye, but there was a chance it would also affect his body and brain’s ability to interface with his power armour

from fuether in discussing the damage:

‘I cannot move.’ He couldn’t move because his muscles were lacerated strips of meat and his bones had been surgically ­pulverised in places. Many of his bones had hairline cracks riven through them, as if a deceitful blacksmith had forged flaws inside the blade of a sword. Such lovingly inflicted mutilation

So there you have it, if the damage was bone and tissue damage, but also some damage that would have prevented internment in a dreadnought (aweful specific brain damage I agree) the rubicon would work but interment would not.

Or... justifications to push sales for DA players...

Captain Lazarus is just about the laziest name they could have come up with...

Dreadnought Sarcophagi are now the final reserve, rather than the only alternative.

It’s also worth noting they’re not made to order - if you’re hoping to get wedged in one for eternity, there needs to be one vacant.

Rubicon? Am yet to read the article, but if it can spare Marines from death? That’s a decent alternative. It allows the would-be Dreadnought occupant to continue to gain ever more experience and knowledge, so when they eventually wind up Dreaded, they’re that much more valuable.

As said in one of the early Voxcasts, every marine that crosses the Rubicon died in the process. Everybody just hopes that the marine’s body can kick into primarifying. So Lazarus could have been almost completely or completely dead but recoverable, whereas a Dreadnought is used to preserve highly injured marines. That’s my theory, anyway.

Weren't dreadnoughts for marines who's bodies were broken but their minds still fight on?

But surely you cannot rubicon a smashed flat body

 Rybrook wrote:
Weren't dreadnoughts for marines who's bodies were broken but their minds still fight on?

But surely you cannot rubicon a smashed flat body

I want to say yes, but looking at some of the recent evidence that seems to no longer be the case in places. On one hand you've got guys so smashed up they look like that scene from the Robocop remake (may be NSFW if you don't know what is coming) such as Ancient Diomat from the Fabius Bile series but then you've got... things like Murderfang where for reasons only best-known to GW they decided to make the "head" of the Dreadnought literally it's head (It's not). Which in turn leads to players sticking bare heads on their Dread minis and making them look terrible.

However, I like to think this might be another nod to the whole "Primaris conspiracy" (that GW seem to be fully self- aware of and like tugging at these strings as we have already had several examples of art imitating life in the background with existing SMs giving their grievances over the Primaris and some seeing them as their replacements.) with the theory that the new organs essentially make them animated corpses under the control of Cawl and a sort of "Order 66" is coming.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Rybrook wrote:
Weren't dreadnoughts for marines who's bodies were broken but their minds still fight on?

But surely you cannot rubicon a smashed flat body

I want to say yes, but looking at some of the recent evidence that seems to no longer be the case in places. On one hand you've got guys so smashed up they look like that scene from the Robocop remake (may be NSFW if you don't know what is coming) such as Ancient Diomat from the Fabius Bile series but then you've got... things like Murderfang where for reasons only best-known to GW they decided to make the "head" of the Dreadnought literally it's head (It's not). Which in turn leads to players sticking bare heads on their Dread minis and making them look terrible.

However, I like to think this might be another nod to the whole "Primaris conspiracy" (that GW seem to be fully self- aware of and like tugging at these strings as we have already had several examples of art imitating life in the background with existing SMs giving their grievances over the Primaris and some seeing them as their replacements.) with the theory that the new organs essentially make them animated corpses under the control of Cawl and a sort of "Order 66" is coming.

Actually, if you build a venerable dreadnought you can see that the helmet on it is the marine’s head: Before you put the sarcophagus lid on you can see the interred torso, heavily suggesting that the limbs have been removed and used as the primary nerve interface points. I have a pretty sizeable dread army, so I’ve done one with it left off (presumably the lid got dented beyond staying on mid battle or something). I’ve also modelled a Redemptor with the pilot from a venerable wedged into the sarcophagus and protected by the closeable cockpit elements.

Now if you’re putting a bare head on a contemptor or larger, I’d agree that’s very stupid.

Yep - here's the Venerable Dreadnought sprue with the interred marine torso, alternative heads and alternative sarcophagus fronts (two of which leave the marine's head exposed):

I don't care what GW says. It's not the head. Everyone who puts a bare head on there makes their mini look terrible.

It's decoration. Nothing more.

 Grimtuff wrote:
I don't care what GW says. It's not the head. Everyone who puts a bare head on there makes their mini look terrible.

It's decoration. Nothing more.

Soooo basicly your head canon somehow outweighs visual proof from the offical models?

dude at this point you're effectively that guy saying "Well my fan fiction says.."

BrianDavion wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
I don't care what GW says. It's not the head. Everyone who puts a bare head on there makes their mini look terrible.

It's decoration. Nothing more.

Soooo basicly your head canon somehow outweighs visual proof from the offical models?

dude at this point you're effectively that guy saying "Well my fan fiction says.."

So Black Library books and 25+ years of fluff prior to that abomination of Murderfang that made it canon is "fan fiction" and "head canon"?

Yeah, pull the other one.

Dreads are living dead SMs. The clue is what they are interred in. A Sarcophagus. You know, a coffin. They are hooked up with tubes in every remaining orifice and kept in amniotic fluid to keep them alive. They are kept in a state of sleep when not in use in their sarcophagi. What they are not is a SM that has no arms or legs but is still somewhat functional. If that were the case Calgar would be in a Dreadnought.

Calgar is a quad amputee, which makes no sense to Rubicon him if he was in the termi armour.

Unless it was to make what was left of him bigger to work the primaris armour or whatever his armour is called now

 Grimtuff wrote:
Dreads are living dead SMs. The clue is what they are interred in. A Sarcophagus. You know, a coffin. They are hooked up with tubes in every remaining orifice and kept in amniotic fluid to keep them alive.

That's certainly how they were described back in 1st edition (the last time I played before 8th), but these 'new' dreadnought models are different. Even with the full height front panel, there's still a slit for the interred marine to look out of. Were there dreadnoughts in between 1st and 8th that looked like the current dreadnought but contained a marine in amniotic fluid?

 Rybrook wrote:
Calgar is a quad amputee, which makes no sense to Rubicon him if he was in the termi armour.

Unless it was to make what was left of him bigger to work the primaris armour or whatever his armour is called now

many of the primaris augmentations are relevant even as a quad amputee.

 Rybrook wrote:
Calgar is a quad amputee,

Is he?

 Crimson wrote:

 Rybrook wrote:
Calgar is a quad amputee,

Is he?

This may just be years of 40K ridiculousness rattling around in my brain, but isn't he a OCTO amputee? As in, he's had his arms and legs ripped off twice? One time by Swarmlord and another time by something else?

-

The extent of injuries Marines can 'survive' keeps changing. For example -

In the space marine novel there was blood raven that was tortured with limbs removed and melted into a vase with molten metal. He was still alive from his waist upward

 Rybrook wrote:
In the space marine novel there was blood raven that was tortured with limbs removed and melted into a vase with molten metal. He was still alive from his waist upward

given it was a blood raven that implies a CS Gato novel. we ignore those

It was a blood drinker, my mistake also written by Ian Wilson

 Rybrook wrote:
It was a blood drinker, my mistake also written by Ian Wilson

Ah, so the actual "Space Marine" novel. I think that and the Inquisition War trilogy are the only times Black Library have come out and said "yeah - this isn't cannon'.

What happens to make BL say that...