Ethereal Interception vs Drop Pod Disembark

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**crainko**

Hello

When my opponent deploys a Drop Pod and i use the Deathmark Ethereal Interception rule, do i set up before or after the unites disembark?

**JakeSiren**

Reasonably, I would say before the unit disembarks based on the precedence of the BRB FAQ ruling on page 11 in regards to other interception abilities.

BRB FAQ Page 11 wrote:
Q. Some rules – such as Early Warning Override in Codex: T’au Empire, the Ever Vigilant Stratagem in Codex: Adeptus Custodes, and the Auspex Scan Stratagem in Codex: Space Marines – allow units to shoot at enemy units that have just arrived on the battlefield as reinforcements, as if it were the Shooting phase.
….
Q2. If the unit arriving as reinforcements has another unit embarked inside it which must disembark after it has been set up (such as units embarked within a Drop Pod, or a Tyrannocyte), can the firing unit shoot at the unit as it disembarks?
A: No – though the unit can shoot at the Drop Pod/ Tyrannocyte before the units inside disembark.

**crainko**

The FAQ only clarifies the shooting part if the unit shooting is already on the board. The Deathmarks Ethereal Interception and the Drop Pod Assault Rules bot state that they happen "immediately" which would be at the same time so the player who's turn it is could choose the order of things.

**Stux**

crainko wrote:
The FAQ only clarifies the shooting part if the unit shooting is already on the board. The Deathmarks Ethereal Interception and the Drop Pod Assault Rules bot state that they happen "immediately" which would be at the same time so the player who's turn it is could choose the order of things.

Agreed. This is a circumstance where sequencing comes into play.

**p5freak**

Why arent people reading the rules ??? Its crystal clear that you cant use ethereal interception on a disembarking unit.

Drop Pod Assault
During deployment, you can set up this model, along with any units embarked aboard it, in orbit instead of setting it up on the battlefield. If you do, at the end of one of your Movement phases you can set up this model anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models. Any models embarked aboard it must immediately disembark, and must be set up more than 9" away from any enemy models (if a model cannot be placed in this way, it is destroyed).

Ethereal Interception
When an enemy unit is set up (other than during deployment or when disembarking) you can immediately set up a unit of Deathmarks that was set up in a hyperspace oubliette on the battlefield, anywhere more than 9" away from enemy models and within 12" of the enemy unit that has just been set up. You can then make a shooting attack with this unit as if it were your Shooting phase, but this attack must target the enemy unit that was just set up.

The unit disembarks from the pod. You can intercept the drop pod, but you cant intercept the disembarking unit.

**Stux**

The OP didn't say they wanted to target the disembarking unit. They asked which is put on the table first.

Why aren't people reading the question???

**p5freak**

Its impossible to use ethereal interception after the unit disembarks, because it cant be used when a unit disembarks. Reading the rules would have answered this.

The only possible solution to set up the deathmarks is when the drop pod arrives, then they shoot the pod, then the unit disembarks.

**Stux**

p5freak wrote:
Its impossible to use ethereal interception after the unit disembarks, because it cant be used when a unit disembarks. Reading the rules would have answered this.

The only possible solution to set up the deathmarks is when the drop pod arrives, then they shoot the pod, then the unit disembarks.

Right, agreed on the first point.

The second one, both rules say immediately. Immediately disembark and immediately deploy the Deathmarks. So surely it's sequencing, and the active player (which will be the marine player) chooses the order?

**p5freak**

Stux wrote:

The second one, both rules say immediately. Immediately disembark and immediately deploy the Deathmarks. So surely it's sequencing, and the active player (which will be the marine player) chooses the order?

No, ethereal interception cant be used when a unit disembarks. Sequencing doesnt change anything, marine player disembarks first, second ethereal interception cant be used, a unit disembarks.

**doctortom**

p5freak wrote:
Stux wrote:

The second one, both rules say immediately. Immediately disembark and immediately deploy the Deathmarks. So surely it's sequencing, and the active player (which will be the marine player) chooses the order?

No, ethereal interception cant be used when a unit disembarks. Sequencing doesnt change anything, marine player disembarks first, second ethereal interception cant be used, a unit disembarks.

Nonsense. Both are immediate actions. If it's declared that Ethereal Interception is being used, then both are going off immediately, and therefore both are subject to sequencing. As it's the turn of the player who put the drop pod on the table, he would decide the sequencing. Ethereal Interception works as it's as immediate as disembarking the passengers. The Deathmarks can not shoot the passengers even if the deathmarks are sequenced to be second, as Ethereal Interception states that disembarking units can't be targeted.

**p5freak**

doctortom wrote:
p5freak wrote:
Stux wrote:

The second one, both rules say immediately. Immediately disembark and immediately deploy the Deathmarks. So surely it's sequencing, and the active player (which will be the marine player) chooses the order?

No, ethereal interception cant be used when a unit disembarks. Sequencing doesnt change anything, marine player disembarks first, second ethereal interception cant be used, a unit disembarks.

Nonsense. Both are immediate actions. If it's declared that Ethereal Interception is being used, then both are going off immediately, and therefore both are subject to sequencing. As it's the turn of the player who put the drop pod on the table, he would decide the sequencing. Ethereal Interception works as it's as immediate as disembarking the passengers. The Deathmarks can not shoot the passengers even if the deathmarks are sequenced to be second, as Ethereal Interception states that disembarking units can't be targeted.

Its not nonsense. You cannot use ethereal interception when a unit disembarks. Even with sequencing the marine player would disembark first, making ethereal interception an illegal action. If ethereal interception is declared when the pod is set up, the marine player would decide to set up the deathmarks first, making it an illegal action, because there is nothing which they can intercept.

**alextroy**

No, p5feak. That is not how sequencing works.

Sequencing allows two actions that need to happen a the same time happen sequentially since you can't do two things at once. By definition, it requires one of the things to happen "after" it was supposed to happen because it takes place after the first thing happens.

**JNAProductions**

You can't use Ethereal Interception in RESPONSE to a Disembarkation. But that doesn't mean disembarkation makes Ethereal Interception illegal.

**doctortom**

p5freak wrote:

Its not nonsense. You cannot use ethereal interception when a unit disembarks. Even with sequencing the marine player would disembark first, making ethereal interception an illegal action. If ethereal interception is declared when the pod is set up, the marine player would decide to set up the deathmarks first, making it an illegal action, because there is nothing which they can intercept.

As the others said, when announcing you are doing it immediately sequencing it does not make it an illegal action. The two things you are sequencing are both immediate actions and neither one becomes an illegal action if done after the one done first in sequencing. I suggest you reread the rules on sequencing, it specifically allows these to be sequenced, in fact it requires them to be sequenced as they are both happening at the same time.

**p5freak**

JNAProductions wrote:You can't use Ethereal Interception in RESPONSE to a Disembarkation. But that doesn't mean disembarkation makes Ethereal Interception illegal.

The ethereal interception rule literally says "When an enemy unit is set up (other than during deployment or when disembarking)...". Disembarkation makes Ethereal Interception illegal.

doctortom wrote:
As the others said, when announcing you are doing it immediately sequencing it does not make it an illegal action. The two things you are sequencing are both immediate actions and neither one becomes an illegal action if done after the one done first in sequencing. I suggest you reread the rules on sequencing, it specifically allows these to be sequenced, in fact it requires them to be sequenced as they are both happening at the same time.

Irrelevant. You cant intercept a disembarking unit. Also, nothing in the sequencing rules says they still happen at the time. Sequence means something happens first, and then later, something else.

**Stux**

They aren't intercepting a disembarking unit, they are intercepting the Drop Pod itself.

**p5freak**

Stux wrote:
They aren't intercepting a disembarking unit, they are intercepting the Drop Pod itself.

Agreed. They can intercept the pod, and attack it, but they cant intercept the disembarking unit.

**Drachii**

p5freak wrote:
Stux wrote:
They aren't intercepting a disembarking unit, they are intercepting the Drop Pod itself.

Agreed. They can intercept the pod, and attack it, but they cant intercept the disembarking unit.

Did anyone apart from yourself even raise that issue?

**Stux**

p5freak wrote:
Stux wrote:
They aren't intercepting a disembarking unit, they are intercepting the Drop Pod itself.

Agreed. They can intercept the pod, and attack it, but they cant intercept the disembarking unit.

You're correct, but that is not what this thread has ever been about though.

The whole question is about the order models are placed on the table. Which is important because if you place the Deathmarks before place the embarked unit then you can potentially block out some of the space the embarked unit can disembarked into.

Everyone agrees you cannot shoot the embarked unit, the question is about order of operations.

**alextroy**

As GW hasn't given specific guidance on this an both happen "immediately" you must resort to the Sequencing rule. This means the active player decides the order. I'm betting the unit will disembark from the Drop Pod in an effort to screen out the Deathmarks.

You could use the shooting FAQ as precedence, but we know how some people feel about that.

**terry**

alextroy wrote:
As GW hasn't given specific guidance on this an both happen "immediately" you must resort to the Sequencing rule. This means the active player decides the order. I'm betting the unit will disembark from the Drop Pod in an effort to screen out the Deathmarks.

You could use the shooting FAQ as precedence, but we know how some people feel about that.

Except crainko's question was about which unit was placed first, which the shooting faq doesn't answer in anyway. It only states that you can't shoot at the disembarked unit

**alextroy**

The FAQ says you can fire before the unit disembarks along with stating the disembarking unit cannot be a target.

**crainko**

So the consensus is that i can't encircle a Drop Pod with Deathmarks to kill the Unites inside. To bad, that would have been a nifty sucker punch against those first turn deepstrikers.

Thank you all for the discussion and clarification on that rule.

**p5freak**

crainko wrote:
So the consensus is that i can't encircle a Drop Pod with Deathmarks to kill the Unites inside. To bad, that would have been a nifty sucker punch against those first turn deepstrikers.

Thank you all for the discussion and clarification on that rule.

You wouldnt be able to do that anyway. If the marine player open the pod doors, which he can, you must stay away more than 9" from those doors. Then there is plenty of space for the unit to disembark.

Q: Which part of a Drop Pod should I measure distances from
and to, especially if the model has been assembled so its doors
can be opened or closed?
A: Measure all distances to and from any part of the
model, including its doors. If this model has been
assembled such that you can lower and raise its doors,
then when this model is first set up in the battlefield
choose whether the doors will be lowered or raised –
you cannot raise or lower the doors thereafter during
the battle.
Designer’s Note: Choosing to set this model up in the ‘raised
doors position’ simply represents the doors closing the instant
after its passengers have disembarked.

**skchsan**

p5freak wrote:
You wouldnt be able to do that anyway. If the marine player open the pod doors, which he can, you must stay away more than 9" from those doors. Then there is plenty of space for the unit to disembark.

He wouldn't be able to do that even if the doors were in 'raised' position due to the same reasoning.

**Eihnlazer**

The funny part about this, is since the deathmarks are intercepting the pod, and sequencing plays out, that the marines that disembarked from the pod can then use the auspex scan strat to shoot the deathmarks when they come in to shoot the pod.

**JohnnyHell**

Now THAT is a smart exploit.

**Stux**

Eihnlazer wrote:
The funny part about this, is since the deathmarks are intercepting the pod, and sequencing plays out, that the marines that disembarked from the pod can then use the auspex scan strat to shoot the deathmarks when they come in to shoot the pod.

And because of sequencing, the Marine player can do that before the Deathmarks shoot.

**Benionin**

Unless the drop pod is the only unit that's deepstriking, I think you're better off saving the Deathmarks for something else. They probably won't get that much damage off anyway, and as noted your Space Marine opponent can cleverly sequence to Auspex Scan you.
You can't shoot the disembarking models and Drop Pods themselves aren't very high-priority targets.