Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, the wording for DTTFE is

Each time you roll a hit roll of 6+ for a model with this ability in the Fight phase, it can, if it was targeting an IMPERIUM unit, immediately make an extra attack against the same unit using the same weapon. These extra attacks cannot themselves generate any further attacks.

and the wording for the mecha-serpent relic is

Each time the bearer fights, it can make 1 (and only 1) attack with this weapon for each enemy model within 1" of the bearer.

So, I'm a bit confused on how these two rules interact, and which "it can" gets used.

I have a feeling ROI it was meant that you can only put one of your Disco's profile attacks in to it, but RAW if you decide the weapon overrides dttfe it looks like it doesn't trigger.

Has this been covered anywhere / what are your thoughts?

Actually, I'm a bit confused on how the mecha-serpent relic works in general. Is it saying that these are additional attacks from the model that this weapon generates? If so, then no, Death to the False Emperor shouldn't trigger, because the "only 1" part of the rule is saying that 1, and only 1 attack, can be made with the weapon for each nearby enemy model, which the extra attacks from DttFE would break. HOWEVER, if it's saying that you can assign up to 1, and only 1, attack from the model's profile to the weapon for each enemy model nearby, then you CAN make extra attacks with DttFE. This would be because then the "only 1" part of the rule is telling you how to assign your attacks, and not a limit on how many attacks the weapon itself can make.

I'm honestly not happy with either of these, and would love someone to find a flaw to that logic.

Dttfe: Against imperium every hit of 6+ generates an additional hit with the same weapon:

Mecha serpent: Gain (1 / per model and only 1) ammount of additional attacks within 1" of the carrier.

Dttfe: would require the same weapon the first attack hit to attack again. (ergo cainswords additionals are chainswords again and not chainaxes for khorne berzerker reasons.)

The weapon itself stops that, and there is no FAQ mention that would allow the serpent to work again.
Ergo, no you should not be able to generate more hits.
The chainsword is formulated differently..

Also; grain of salt applies since i work with the german books.

I agree that you get one and only one attack with the Mecha Serpent. Any rules that grant extra attacks are negated by the specific rule on the mecha-serpent denying them.

You could already use this relic to get a silly number of attacks, at least in theory. They have deliberately emphasised 'and only 1' to prevent these situations from getting even more ridiculous. I think both RAW AND RAI both agree that DTTFE doesn't work with this relic.

 Bilge Rat wrote:
You could already use this relic to get a silly number of attacks, at least in theory.

The non relic version grants two extra attacks for each attack. And those can generate dttfe and soulforge legion trait. + the warlord trait to get 3 extra hits if you want. So if you want horde clearing I'm pretty sure the normal ones are better than the relic, and arnt limited if you cant pile in to a lot of enemies.

gosublanky wrote:

 Bilge Rat wrote:
You could already use this relic to get a silly number of attacks, at least in theory.

The non relic version grants two extra attacks for each attack. And those can generate dttfe and soulforge legion trait. + the warlord trait to get 3 extra hits if you want. So if you want horde clearing I'm pretty sure the normal ones are better than the relic, and arnt limited if you cant pile in to a lot of enemies.

Which is precisely why you don't see the mecha serpents all that often?

I'd rather not get too distracted, so back on point. A local TO here has decided tonight that he believes it does gain DTTFE and I agree with his decision.

If there is any other discussion on the matter would like to hear it

RAW, DTTFE doesnt trigger when you attack with mecha-serpents. You dont get any extra attacks.

gosublanky wrote:
I'd rather not get too distracted, so back on point. A local TO here has decided tonight that he believes it does gain DTTFE and I agree with his decision.

If there is any other discussion on the matter would like to hear it

I'd probably send an E-Mail.

I'm just gonna say that I agree with BCB on the rules here.

A tourney I went to on the weekend (before the and only 1 part Was added) managed to get 12 attacks due to dttfe procs and 6's against my army.

Saying this is intentional is being dishonest. Nothing outside of super dedicated close combat units/characters should ever be able to get that amount of attacks.

 Dr. Mills wrote:
I'm just gonna say that I agree with BCB on the rules here.

A tourney I went to on the weekend (before the and only 1 part Was added) managed to get 12 attacks due to dttfe procs and 6's against my army.

Saying this is intentional is being dishonest. Nothing outside of super dedicated close combat units/characters should ever be able to get that amount of attacks.

You realize that the Lord Discordant is pretty much a dedicated close combat monster, right?

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Dr. Mills wrote:
I'm just gonna say that I agree with BCB on the rules here.

A tourney I went to on the weekend (before the and only 1 part Was added) managed to get 12 attacks due to dttfe procs and 6's against my army.

Saying this is intentional is being dishonest. Nothing outside of super dedicated close combat units/characters should ever be able to get that amount of attacks.

You realize that the Lord Discordant is pretty much a dedicated close combat monster, right?

It is. But do you realize that a flawless host disco lord with intoxicating elixir and ultimate confidence gets 4 additional attacks for every hit roll of 5+ against an imperium unit ? The disco lord has 13 melee attacks. So thats 20 additional attacks, on average. Give it another +1 to hit and we are talking about 26 additional attacks.

DttFE is a stupid rule and should be abandoned with all of the faction specific rules/strats.

Increasing the combat ability of a model by double or more (morty vs imperium) is an incredibly unbalanced rule that makes it impossible to balance against armies in general. I don't care how fluffy it is this is stupid (playing vs triple discos and morty as an imperial player is just not fun).

bananathug wrote:
DttFE is a stupid rule and should be abandoned with all of the faction specific rules/strats.

Increasing the combat ability of a model by double or more (morty vs imperium) is an incredibly unbalanced rule that makes it impossible to balance against armies in general. I don't care how fluffy it is this is stupid (playing vs triple discos and morty as an imperial player is just not fun).

Agreed wholeheartedly.

What i dont get is that SM need a stratagem for it, and it works only against specific legions, whereas its "free" for chaos, and works against every imperium unit. SM should get dttt (death to the traitors), and it should work the same way as dttfe.

SM get ATSKNF instead.
They’re also cheaper.