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Still probably too early to tell, but considering how they are only showing new incubi and banshees when there so many finecast models that need to be redone, and considering how crap Jain Zar's statline is (seriously, destroyer lords are better. And destroyer lords aren't great as a beatstick unit.)... yeah, this might be a disappointment, but hopefully GW is still hiding stuff.

A big meh for me.

The contents of the box are, anemic to say the least. When I saw the box contents it was hard not to laugh at just how little is in there.

This could have been a great opportunity for GW to replace the finecast models for Eldar and Dark Eldar... As those two factions still have a lot of Finecast. Sadly GW missed this opportunity... oh well, better luck next time Eldar and Dark Eldar collectors.

What is even more insulting is when we compare it to the attention Marines get. Not even funny.

Personally I'm gobsmacked by how bad this release has been so far. Lukewarm new rules preview, underwhelming character reveal, terrible old stock bulking out a few (very overdue) resculpts, and the nagging suspicion that the new rules are tabulated to pre SM 2.0 power levels. Hope I'm wrong...

Don't like the model contents of the box.

Rules wise Drazar is certainly interesting but not totally sure how you would use him. Sort of similar problem to Incubi in general tbh. Probably going to be very cool in fluffy/non-competitive games. If he is still 140 points I think thats a bit much for a guy you have jogging around looking for something to punch. Deep strike turn 2, with reroll charges, go ham? Would need to check the stats - if its effective 4 damage on 5+ to wound though hes scary to a lot of things, even if not quite a smash captain.

Jain Zar looks very meh - although I guess that time you somehow managed to get right in the middle of say an Ork Boy blob or loads of Genestealers or something and break out 15-20 attacks could be fun (I guess it would mess things up, but she should have counted as flying in the charge phase or something).

As a unit though I just think you are in this weird situation where ignoring overwatch is great for an assault army, and M8 advance and charge +3" is great for an assault army and... its just a shame Eldar don't have many other good assault units to really follow this up. This has surely been proven by the Ynnari codex.

Maybe if there is a new Avatar of Khaine and some new buffed up Scorpions etc and who knows something weird like storm guardians get a kit and love in the future it might change.

Okay; I'm hardly representative of a typical player. I only play 40k as part of a narrative campaign, and my purchases are almost always driven by story considerations. I play neither DE nor CWE yet. I've always wanted to play DE, and I've always been interested in CWE. I also love Yvraine, and I would play a campaign in which the Ynarri try to recruit from both sides. The potential for intrigue is insane.

Bare that in mind. Bias declared. Here we go:

New Models

The sculpts, IMO, are awesome.I'm so glad they maintained the aesthetic.Ever since I became interested in DE, I knew I was going to have to have incubi, and now that Drazhar actually looks like one, I want him too. Also, the choices of units to receive new sculpts were perfect for me- both of the units already have Kill Team rules, which is a really big deal to me, because almost every 40k game I play is preceded by two kill team games which set up the special conditions to be used in the 40k game. Also, all of the new scuplts are connected by story line through Yvraine. I find it particularly cool that as mercenaries, Incubi have no obsessions to lose by joining the Ynarri.

Other Models in the box

From gaming perspective, people are right, they aren't great choices. Luckily, my weirdness makes some of these choices awesome for me. First off, scourges: as with the Incubi, mercenary status means they lose nothing by joining Ynarri. It's true that the Ynarri abilities do nothing for them, but they help fill a Ynarri gap by bringing some versatile ranged fire power. Also, as it happens, I've created a pair of special scenarios for Hellions, and I can't wait to get my hands on a set.In the first mission, the Hellions are set to raid a far less mobile Kill Team- the kind of mission that should have been a cake walk. Then the Khymerae show up. Each time a Hellion takes out a Kymera, they do an opposed leadership test. If they succeed, the Khymera is not destroyed, but overawed and enthralled. After the game, the enthralled Khymerae are added to the Hellion player's roster of available models for subsequent games. Furthermore, the first Hellion to successfully enthral a Khymera is upgraded to a beast master in subsequent games. The Hellions then return to their cult to learn in both the arenas and on realspace raids. Later, once the beast master has racked up a few more packs of nasties, some experience and prestige, the Hellions will escort their beast master in a mission to recruit a Dread Ambull.

On the CWE side, I feel like I'm fine with the models, but that's because I'm new to the faction, and I have nothing for CWE yet. The models are good looking, and I think it was cool to put vehicles in a box, because it's different- most boxes are primarily infantry, and if they do have a vehicle, it's a dread or a walker. I know nothing about the rules for either of these units, so that's all I can really say about them.

Rules

I like the fact that the rules are in the book, not the box. I'm glad datacards for the units in the box are included, although this can go either way: if the units haven't received any upgrades, then this is just a convenience. But if the units did get an upgrade, GW has put themselves in a bind: if the only place the new rules are available is on the cards, Dakka will whine that they had to buy the box to get the cards; if they reprint the updated cards in the book, Dakka will whine about purchasing the same material twice; if they put it up electronically for free, Dakka will whine about needing too many documents; and if they rerelease a new dex, Dakka will whine either about how it took too long, or about how it was just a conspiracy to sell more models, more books or subvert the story line.

The rules we've seen are improvements on what was there before, or they merely provide extra options. As a campaign player, I love options. A competitve player will only ever be interested in the best three options (if that) and automatically declare all others "useless" or "garbage," but us storyfolk tend to see shades of grey a little more vividly, and what might not win you a tournament might make a great chapter in the story of an army. I need to read the whole book to give a more accurate assessment than that; itseems like it's going to be a substantial quantity of new material, but only time will tell.

Also, it remains to be seen if the Ynarri will be getting any kind of rule tweeking or merely be reprinted from the WD article. Most Dakkanauts either dislike Ynarri or are merely indifferent (in my experience), but for me, I'd like to see a little extra for them.

Campaign sets as a delivery mechanism for updated content

I think this is brilliant, and I think it's GW's new trajectory and methodology from here on in. This is the best way IMO to keep the game going forever- a few new models and a few new rules for all 20+ factions every year. I can't wait to see what Grey Knights get, because they really need a push, and this campaign in particular could be a great delivery mechanism for that content.

Psychic Awakening as a Campaign

So far, I'm on board. If each installment gives us a box with some new and some existing models from more than one faction with datacards and a campaign book, as well as a separate, stand alone book of new rules content for those factions, I think that's just great. Many of the installments to come have the potential to be better; some might be worse, but if we have this as sort of a baseline, I think we're in for some good stuff. A big factor will be how long we need to wait for the next installment- the release schedule will have a lot to do with the success or failure of the campaign as a whole.

The theme is great for me- I love cult armies, SoB, SoS and Inquisition, so I'm stoked about a story line that directly connects to the things I appreciate most about the game. I'm hoping for cool new models for wyrdvanes and Primaris (though BSF already gave us a cool new Primaris). I'd like to see some more exceptions to Battle Brothers for Inquisition, SoS and Astra Telepathica, and I think this campaign might give me what I'm after.

Anyway, sorry for the monster post- just figured you might be interested in qualitative data in addition to the qualitative stuff.

I like Eldar getting some much needed love in models. I think it sucks they are being held hostage in this crap box for such a high price.

I won't buy it and fear the precedent it sets for similar boxes and prices. Pretty cheap there GW.

Well don't have interest in eldar army so pass but if necrons get same treatment then thumbs up.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bullyboy wrote:
Would be nice if you actually created a poll here instead of posting a link, but whatever.

Not really excited as an Eldar player at the moment. From what we've seen with Jain Zar and the banshees, GW is not capable of balancing units to what we've recently seen for marines. This will probably dictate the success of the series, a direct comparison to the level of power marines have risen to with their recent codexes. This is not a small rant about marines since I'm currently building Raven Guard, but the next few months will be a good representation for what we can expect for the rest of 8th edition.

Personally I would rather GW to nerf marines down to more reasonable level rather than up others to same level. Things were already too lethal. Making things more is bad idea. Tone down marines. Don't escalate the arms race.

Well, I'm interested in the new models: Jain Zar, Banshees, Drahzar and Incubi from the collecting point of view.
But not from the gaming point of view.
The rest of the box I have in abundance.

Overhyped.
Overpriced.
Some ancient models in there.
Jain Zar is just silly.

It looks like GW puts more effort into marketing than into their products...

The price is too darn high, I know there's been some brown nosing about how it's totally a discount on some really common and cheaply available stuff, but that's not an inducement, even for someone like me who has little to no CE/DE stuff.

I'll see what split box stuff is available on places like ebay and bartertown, but I'm not optimistic.

Don't play either faction, and I'm not a fan of Psykers in general so it's meh for me.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I like Eldar getting some much needed love in models. I think it sucks they are being held hostage in this crap box for such a high price.

I won't buy it and fear the precedent it sets for similar boxes and prices. Pretty cheap there GW.

you make it sound like introducing new minis in a box is something new to GW.

If it was just the Eldar only set, I'd be more prone to buying. However, I'm waiting to see if the other Aspects get plastic before buying in.

Strangely, the Eldar army I possess is supposedly for my brother to use - I like the models, but don't play the army.

BrianDavion wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I like Eldar getting some much needed love in models. I think it sucks they are being held hostage in this crap box for such a high price.

I won't buy it and fear the precedent it sets for similar boxes and prices. Pretty cheap there GW.

you make it sound like introducing new minis in a box is something new to GW.

This is the most cash grabby, and awful of the boxes they did this for. That is why my feelings on it are so negative. I don't like the practice in general of doing it but in the past at least they put in some useful units and the box was for the most part good feeling.

I even got a few, with friends, like shadow spear and the one with the armigers first coming out, I declined some of the other ones. This one though feels worse, saving wise, excitement wise. So while it's not a new thing, I don't like it being a thing and if it has to be a thing at least it could feel better.

I mean aside from the tech priest Dominus, please GW stop placing them in every ad mech box deal !

I'd say wake the dead was the worst of the lost. a buncha models most people already had tons of.. and a new Primaris Leuitenant!

BrianDavion wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:
I like Eldar getting some much needed love in models. I think it sucks they are being held hostage in this crap box for such a high price.

I won't buy it and fear the precedent it sets for similar boxes and prices. Pretty cheap there GW.

you make it sound like introducing new minis in a box is something new to GW.

It probably isn't. But why couldn't the box be two HQs, two boxs of the new units and some support unit or character, that actually works well with the said troops., it could even be a new model or a model with changed rules to fit the force.

This follows pattern GW has been doing for years with good success selling out. It's the shadowspear that was unusual. Usually kits do not come with all new but it being marines the poster boys make.

This is 100% following pattern GW has had. Nothing new under the sky here.

They're two factions I don't collect, so I don't have a horse in this race. However, I don't think it's going to live up to the initial hype looking at this release. I'm hoping all of my factions get new models, but I feel for both CWE and DE players as both factions need new models (for different reasons). I feel like DE should have gotten some of their removed stuff back, and perhaps another Aspect or two could have been covered.

I can honestly say that nothing I have seen or heard about this release has interested me in the slightest or given me even the faintest hope that it will be in any way worth a damn.

"We're reprinting the Ynnari rules from WD!"

What, you mean the rules so bad that they basically killed Ynnari as a faction overnight? The rules that have to dedicate an entire page to the convoluted mess of army-creation rules because you were too lazy to give them a proper codex? The rules so riddles with flaws and stupidity that they didn't so much resemble a first draft as some drunken scrawls on a beermat?

Apparently we're supposed to think that reprinting godawful rules is somehow a point in the book's favour. To me it's akin to trying to market the book by claiming it contains the Ebola virus.


Speaking of marketing, the previews thus far have been (in order):
Banshees (initial announcement)
Banshees again
Incubi
Jain Zar
Drazhar
The box for the above
Inside the box for the above
Some actual rules(!!!)
Drazhar and Jain Zar again
Banshees and Jain Zar again

How anaemic does a book have to be for the marketing team to keep showing the same pictures of the same 4 units and pretending each time that they're something new and exciting?


As for the rules, the custom Obsessions just don't interest me. I'm of the opinion that the DE book already has a perfectly fine choice of Kabals, Cults and Covens. What it *doesn't* have is a good choice of actual units - especially in the HQ department. But once again any opportunity to address this problem has been carefully avoided. But I'm sure it's far more important that Marines get another dozen releases. Don't worry, I'll just sit here with my 1 generic HQ choice each for Kabal, Cult and Coven. And even if they couldn't be arsed making new models, how about at least giving our HQs tables like the ones Eldar are getting for each of their Exarchs?


As for the models, I don't play Eldar so the Banshees and Jain Zar are of minimal interest to me. I can't say that the Incubi excite me either. If anything, the models for both Drazhar and the Klaivex just illustrate how fundamentally stupid and impractical Klaives are as weapons. The poses are awkward and static, I have no interest in the stupid tassels and why is Drazhar wearing a necklace?

Finally, looking at the box set for this release, all I can say is HAHAHAHAHAHA. Dream on, GW.

the custom obsessions etc is something that we can expect to be deployed widely in 40k now. I think it's a good thing in terms of allowing us to develop individual character for our armies.

before the Marine codex came out when you asked "what chapter are you playing" the answer was always "ohh it's ultramarines but with my own custom paint job" now I ask people what army they play and they tell me about their custom chapter. it's been fun

Yeah, the custom chapters / obsessions / whatever thing is a great idea. What matters is how its done.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, the custom chapters / obsessions / whatever thing is a great idea. What matters is how its done.

yeah, the devil'll DEFINATLY be in the details. we'll see how it all works out. what I'M concerned about is if they go with the 2 trait system of codex marines, but don't update some of the current craftworld traits then a custom CW will be MAAAISVLY better then a canon one, not a big problem... until someone realizes they've basicly being penalized, harshly for taking Eldrad.

Custom chapters/obsessions is fine.

My concern is that it's going to be the only thing DE actually get in this supplement (outside of tweaked rules for Drazhar).

Tyel wrote:
Don't like the model contents of the box.

Rules wise Drazar is certainly interesting but not totally sure how you would use him. Sort of similar problem to Incubi in general tbh. Probably going to be very cool in fluffy/non-competitive games. If he is still 140 points I think thats a bit much for a guy you have jogging around looking for something to punch. Deep strike turn 2, with reroll charges, go ham? Would need to check the stats - if its effective 4 damage on 5+ to wound though hes scary to a lot of things, even if not quite a smash captain.

Jain Zar looks very meh - although I guess that time you somehow managed to get right in the middle of say an Ork Boy blob or loads of Genestealers or something and break out 15-20 attacks could be fun (I guess it would mess things up, but she should have counted as flying in the charge phase or something).

As a unit though I just think you are in this weird situation where ignoring overwatch is great for an assault army, and M8 advance and charge +3" is great for an assault army and... its just a shame Eldar don't have many other good assault units to really follow this up. This has surely been proven by the Ynnari codex.

Maybe if there is a new Avatar of Khaine and some new buffed up Scorpions etc and who knows something weird like storm guardians get a kit and love in the future it might change.

Storm Armdians are never getting a kit. Though, they do absolutely tempt me to attend official GW tournaments with units of completely WYSIWYG storm guardians that are just heads and arms in little piles on the board.

"What, they don't come with bases! RAW, I'm supposed to use the hull!"

the box is clearly as troll to test the faithful, I mean Helions and Vypers...really (guess you cant put wyches or bikes in as they'd show up the new hotness)

rules smacking of friday afternoon rush job and whilst 'too many good units' is a first craftworld problem, on whats been spoiled I cant see it making much, if any, impact on eldar or deldar armies

 vipoid wrote:
Custom chapters/obsessions is fine.

My concern is that it's going to be the only thing DE actually get in this supplement (outside of tweaked rules for Drazhar).

Yeah, I'd honestly like to see xenos get some more stuff. I have a hunch though that this is going to be more or less what most armies get. they can eaither give everyone a little something, or a few select armies big things.

the_scotsman wrote:
Storm Armdians are never getting a kit. Though, they do absolutely tempt me to attend official GW tournaments with units of completely WYSIWYG storm guardians that are just heads and arms in little piles on the board.

"What, they don't come with bases! RAW, I'm supposed to use the hull!"

I'm not sure how someone would react to this small disembodied pile shuffling across the table.
Still, GW will want probably to re-do guardians one day. In which case a dual kit isn't beyond the wit of man. They might even have rules to not be the most pointless unit in the game.

But then I was sure they would do new aspects in dual kits, so what do I know.

From a rules standpoint, the only thing I'm looking forward to is the custom Craftworlds. This could change if they happen to give out new relics, warlord traits etc.
One thing that would blow me away (and therefore won't be in the book) is a strategem that could make either a wraithlord or wraithknight a character and then have som relics worth taking.

The comments here are sobering - especially for GW.
Their decision to add old-school models like Falcon and Vyper to the box and a unit that is meh in the first place like Hellions seems not to convince the player base.
Scourges and Venom can be played at the competitive level, but most DE players have them at home in abundance.
So what remains are the new models which I think are sweet.
Its more for the collector and painter rather than for the player.

It can't be worse than the way they introduced Guilliman and Primaris