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 wuestenfux wrote:
The comments here are sobering - especially for GW.
Their decision to add old-school models like Falcon and Vyper to the box and a unit that is meh in the first place like Hellions seems not to convince the player base.
Scourges and Venom can be played at the competitive level, but most DE players have them at home in abundance.
So what remains are the new models which I think are sweet.
Its more for the collector and painter rather than for the player.

The only good thing about owning more Scourges is that they are a wonder for kitbash. Hellions would be too if Archons and Succubi could ride skyboards.

 Eldarsif wrote:
Hellions would be too if Archons and Succubi could ride skyboards.

And here we have just one of the myriad of things I would have preferred GW to address before redoing Drazhar and Incubi.

Oof. Well now we know what the Codex B Team was working on while the A team was working on marine supplements.

Haha. True dat.

 DominayTrix wrote:
Oof. Well now we know what the Codex B Team was working on while the A team was working on marine supplements.

The B team is Phil Kelly?
The author of the new Ynnari.

Tyel wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Storm Armdians are never getting a kit. Though, they do absolutely tempt me to attend official GW tournaments with units of completely WYSIWYG storm guardians that are just heads and arms in little piles on the board.

"What, they don't come with bases! RAW, I'm supposed to use the hull!"

I'm not sure how someone would react to this small disembodied pile shuffling across the table.
Still, GW will want probably to re-do guardians one day. In which case a dual kit isn't beyond the wit of man. They might even have rules to not be the most pointless unit in the game.

But then I was sure they would do new aspects in dual kits, so what do I know.

SG's definitely aren't the most pointless unit in the game, but they ain't a melee unit. They're 2 BS3+ meltaguns with battlefocus - I actually use them in my eldar list (which is admittedly as fluffy as they come, but they tend to do decent work tbh).

Playing SG's in a BCB-esque "by the book" model configuration would be kind of similar to how they originally released Necron Scarabs. They were just tiny little figs with no base that just sort of shuffled across the table.


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 Eldarsif wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
The comments here are sobering - especially for GW.
Their decision to add old-school models like Falcon and Vyper to the box and a unit that is meh in the first place like Hellions seems not to convince the player base.
Scourges and Venom can be played at the competitive level, but most DE players have them at home in abundance.
So what remains are the new models which I think are sweet.
Its more for the collector and painter rather than for the player.

The only good thing about owning more Scourges is that they are a wonder for kitbash. Hellions would be too if Archons and Succubi could ride skyboards.

Also, daily reminder that a couple months ago you could get 2x units of Hellions and 2x units of Reavers for like...thirty five bucks or something with Gangs of Comorragh. That box literally cost less than 1 and a half of the four kits that was in it. I don't know any human alive who plays DE and doesn't have way too many hellions.

Storm Guardians are also really cheap (for CWE) troops. 6ppm puts them *much* cheaper per model than the next cheapest (Defenders). Half the firepower same durability and a little better CC for 75% the cost? If you're looking for bodies, not a bad deal. The extra shooting is *usually* better, but not always.

They're also the cheapest troop slot for CWE.

I wish they had better purposes, but they have some purposes now.

 wuestenfux wrote:
The comments here are sobering - especially for GW.
Their decision to add old-school models like Falcon and Vyper to the box and a unit that is meh in the first place like Hellions seems not to convince the player base.
Scourges and Venom can be played at the competitive level, but most DE players have them at home in abundance.
So what remains are the new models which I think are sweet.
Its more for the collector and painter rather than for the player.

I think the real kicker is the box only gives a 33% discount compared to the 50% almost every box like it has done in the past.

Im just hoping for some new Nid goodies when they get their update.

Having now seen almost all the contents of the book, I can honestly say that this is one of the laziest cash-grabs I've ever seen. Even by GW's own dismal standards.

Don't care about xenos at all. Overpriced as always, big surprise there.

Serafimov86 wrote:
It can't be worse than the way they introduced Guilliman and Primaris

you mean a box set with 2 brand new never seen before armies (ok technicly Primaris are part of Space Marines but they can be used as a stand alone army too) with 3 differant boxes each with a differant price point to make ease of entry easy. that also came with a rule book for the brand new edition.. all for a cost LESS then what we're paying for Blood of the Pheonix?

Yes you're right it's faaaar better then that, absolutely better. ohh by the way I've got a great offer on a bridge for you!

This sums it up rather...sadly.

 vipoid wrote:
Having now seen almost all the contents of the book, I can honestly say that this is one of the laziest cash-grabs I've ever seen. Even by GW's own dismal standards.

I don't believe GW would be lazy and cash grabby, next thing you're going to tell me is that they'd reprint an out of date rule book with a small format and a high price tag. Ha I don't believe it, this is the new GW we talking about here. They'd not do such things.

A facebook post will fix everything. Trust in GW.

BrianDavion wrote:
I'd say wake the dead was the worst of the lost. a buncha models most people already had tons of.. and a new Primaris Leuitenant!

Wake the Dead was actually a reasonable introductory box set. You got a HQ and troops for each side, and only the Reivers were really the only lackluster part of the box. I kind of view it as the Dark Imperium for people who didn't want Death Guard models.

I think any Versus box should be looked at as introductory - maybe not ground floor on an army, but a good way to expand a force, and Wake the Dead did that fine. My 1000 point Eldar project was basically SC Eldar, Wake the Dead and some leftover War Walkers/Guardians I had from 5th edition, and up to that point I had only the Dark Imperium mono-pose Primaris, so an extra Power Sword Lieutenant, multipart Intercessors and Inceptors were welcome.


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 Elbows wrote:
This sums it up rather...sadly.

Spoiler:

To this day I still consider getting Know No Fear, and I own 2 Dark Imperium boxes. Such a good starter.

Wake the dead I gave a pass too because there had been so many sets with primaris Marines in them it was just hard to care about (maybe if I was an eldar player it'd be differant) I'd have been more excited if wake the dead was Eldar vs guard or something.

BrianDavion wrote:
Wake the dead I gave a pass too because there had been so many sets with primaris Marines in them it was just hard to care about (maybe if I was an eldar player it'd be differant) I'd have been more excited if wake the dead was Eldar vs guard or something.

Oh I understand completely. Not every versus box is going to interest everyone, but we can at least appreciate them for the relative value of the contents - good units at good prices equals a good box set. By that standard, Wake the Dead wasn't perfect, but it was still pretty good and only had minor exclusives - the plastic Spiritseer isn't a huge improvement on the Finecast one, they both look good.

Well, now one can order the ''new'' Aeldari stuff, the box set for 180€ and the supplement book for 32€.
The latter is an 80 page book with the following content:

- Background that brings the full impact of the Great Rift upon the Aeldari to life, examining the rifts formed between various factions in their society, the rising belief in Ynnead, the predations of Slaanesh, and more!
- Missions that allow you to recreate some of the most pivotal battles involving the Aeldari during the psychic awakening, and war zones that let you bring your battles to some of the most pivotal sites of conflict
- Expanded army rules for the Craftworlds, including alternative Exarch abilities, updated datasheets for Jain Zar and Howling Banshees, a new Psychic Discipline, and a system that allows you to build your own Craftworld Attributes
- Expanded army rules for the Drukhari, including updated datasheers for Drazhar and Incubi, name generation tables, and a system that lets you build your own Kabals, Wych Cults and Haemonculus Covens
- Expanded army rules for the Ynnari, including army-wide abilities, datasheets and matched play points for The Visarch, The Yncarne and Yvraine, Warlord Traits, Stratagems, the Revenant Psychic Discipline, Relics of Ynnead and more!

Unless you want a Ynnari army it seems that it doesn't add very much to an Aeldari collection.
Nevertheless, as an elder Eldar player I'll buy it.

 Elbows wrote:
This sums it up rather...sadly.

That is 60$ less then I paid for my army. Almost wish I had an option to buy those two boxs. Nice for for marines too, A few tanks or a few aggressor and it is a finished army. Very good deal.

I don't believe GW would be lazy and cash grabby, next thing you're going to tell me is that they'd reprint an out of date rule book with a small format and a high price tag. Ha I don't believe it, this is the new GW we talking about here. They'd not do such things.

Or reprint an old codex, when new models come out, without updated rules, and then put the updates in a Vigilus book.

Well, the new Exarch powers are nice.
But overall it seems that that Aeldari (especially Ynnari pushed in the campaign) will not reach the level of SM.

"Dakka has a Poll option"

"Doesn't uses Dakka's poll option"

 Amishprn86 wrote:
"Dakka has a Poll option"

"Doesn't uses Dakka's poll option"

A poll maintained outside of Dakka is actually not what we want.

I don't play any stripe of Eldar, so naturally I'm underwhelmed. That is to be expected, though. I'm sure if it was a Guard an/or GSC book I would have a much more positive reaction just as when those books come along, Eldar players will be in the same boat as I am now.

The cynic that is me tells me the box set is GW testing the waters of how much people are willing to pay. I don't doubt enough fanboy whales will buy them up to 'justify' (in GW's eyes) them making every new boxset at least that price. Then again, Tooth & Claw took quite a while to actually sell out and that included Primaris, so maybe I'll be wrong (nevermind it was an okay-ish price by GW standards)

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, the new Exarch powers are nice.
But overall it seems that that Aeldari (especially Ynnari pushed in the campaign) will not reach the level of SM.

What? You mean a chapter tactic that is "+1 to hit in melee combat if a unit has died this turn, oh and also you must take one of three horrible overpriced characters per each detachment" is not on par with, let's see....

-Reroll morale
-Rapid fire weapons work out to full range if you didn't move
-+1 attack in melee if you charged or were charged
-extra AP on 1/3 of your army's weapons each turn
-extra bonus AP on some weapons depending on your chapter
-two chapter tactics per official chapter, or pick your own two from this huge list

Weird! I wonder why that is!

Having looked into the rules more, I think it's safe to say that I'm pretty disappointed from a competitive perspective. Fun rules for narrative or open missions but it's missing the oomph that marines have received.

Banshees are still rubbish

The Drukhari rules definitely feel like a damp squib overall. Incubi and Drazhar might see play, but they require a lot of investment to really get the most from them (e.g., they need to be Ynnari and have multiple buffing HQs).

Kabal traits are mostly garbage aside from a couple of mediocre ones. Cult traits are fine but aren't really going to shake up how they play in any huge way aside from suddenly making an Air Wing viable.

The biggest change is that somebody at GW's rules team apparently saw that Venom spam and Covens heavy were two of the most competitive ways to play DE, and asked themselves but what if we combined the two?

And... that's all the changes they've seen. I was expecting so much more from this book.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Having looked into the rules more, I think it's safe to say that I'm pretty disappointed from a competitive perspective. Fun rules for narrative or open missions but it's missing the oomph that marines have received.

Banshees are still rubbish

Yeah, overall, having now seen reviews and leaks...the basic Craftworlds stuff is hugely mediocre. The build-a-Craftworld provides little option for a cool or strong list. The Exarch powers are a huge mixed bag, and I picked out maybe 7-8 total(!) that make the Aspect Warriors useful. The rest are really, shockingly bad. So, a couple of aspect units receive a needed buff...except Banshees. Their Exarch powers are comparable garbage So the new models got some of the worst rules. A lot of the powers do double-down on the Exarch, which is logical but shows that GW has very little concept of what is wrong with the game at the moment (i.e. expensive elite units are crap...so adding a rule to one expensive elite model in an expensive elite unit isn't going to help much). The powers which impact the whole aspect squad have some solid impact.

Biggest winners being probably Striking Scorpions. The 5+ mandiblaster option alone makes them worth the 10 points per model (assuming they find a way into combat).

Some of the powers made me do a double-take. -1 leadership when within 6" of a Dark Reaper? Whuh? The Reaper Exarch doing bonus damage...in close combat? Pile in bonus range for Warp Spiders...a non-melee unit (further degrading the idea that the unit is solely there to suicidally charge and tie things up...). Just some really bizarre/poor options there. I did find essentially one per Aspect that might be worth running though.

 Elbows wrote:

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
Having looked into the rules more, I think it's safe to say that I'm pretty disappointed from a competitive perspective. Fun rules for narrative or open missions but it's missing the oomph that marines have received.

Banshees are still rubbish

Yeah, overall, having now seen reviews and leaks...the basic Craftworlds stuff is hugely mediocre. The build-a-Craftworld provides little option for a cool or strong list. The Exarch powers are a huge mixed bag, and I picked out maybe 7-8 total(!) that make the Aspect Warriors useful. The rest are really, shockingly bad. So, a couple of aspect units receive a needed buff...except Banshees. Their Exarch powers are comparable garbage So the new models got some of the worst rules. A lot of the powers do double-down on the Exarch, which is logical but shows that GW has very little concept of what is wrong with the game at the moment (i.e. expensive elite units are crap...so adding a rule to one expensive elite model in an expensive elite unit isn't going to help much). The powers which impact the whole aspect squad have some solid impact.

Biggest winners being probably Striking Scorpions. The 5+ mandiblaster option alone makes them worth the 10 points per model (assuming they find a way into combat).

Some of the powers made me do a double-take. -1 leadership when within 6" of a Dark Reaper? Whuh? The Reaper Exarch doing bonus damage...in close combat? Pile in bonus range for Warp Spiders...a non-melee unit (further degrading the idea that the unit is solely there to suicidally charge and tie things up...). Just some really bizarre/poor options there. I did find essentially one per Aspect that might be worth running though.

So, I kind of disagree on some of the points you make here.

First off, though I'm definitely a weirdo in this regard, the custom craftworld trait that gives +1 to charge and rr hits of 1 in melee is definitely what I'll be taking. I run a very weird eldar list. Hail of Doom also looks good (Especially if you're bringing 10-man squads of Avenging Strikes DA's in Wave Serpents). You cannot complain about Salamanders tactic, that one is always good. Wrath of the Dead looks hot with certain builds (Wraithcannon WG that reroll all wound rolls...uh...yes please.)

I think there's a lot of potential in the custom CW traits. Hail of Doom/Mobile Fighters dire avengers seem good, or Hail of Doom/Martial Citizenry if you prefer guardians as your troops. +Charge and RR 1s on the charge is exactly what I've always wanted for my melee eldar, and Wrath of the Dead/Mobile Fighters seems like the Iyanden trait that all Iyanden players actually wanted.

Drukhari traits seem a little more limited for sure. Especially Kabal. There are some sweet combos in the Wych Cult and Covens lists, but for sure they're more limited I think primarily because there's just less of them.

Runes of Fortune is a mixed bag, but there are some GOOD ass powers in that bag. A Hemlock with Impair Senses instead of Smite? Heck yeah man, I will tell that knight it can only target the closest thing outside 18". Do I want Smite on my Wraithseer, or do I want +2 damage to his melee weapon, hmmm, decisions decisions... And +2" to charge I'm always there for. Please do give me +3" to charge striking scorpions.

As for exarch powers, really, only one needs to be good per list. And I do think there is at least one good one per list

Dire Avengers: Min squads take Shredding Fire or keep the shield. Max squads in transports take Avenging Strikes. Max squads out of transports wonder why they're doing that, but they take bladestorm.

Fire Dragons take Swift Step if they're in a transport or Dragon's Bite/keep crack shot if they're webwaying. Worst list IMO, but swift step is at least quasi-helpful.

Howling Banshees: Piercing Strike for a min squad, keep War Shout and add Graceful Avoidance for a max squad. The problem of killing things with them is still there, but they'll at least stay alive pretty good. I don't see this list as particularly bad, just the base unit's not great.

Striking Scorpions: Sweet hat lasers all day erry day. These guys become the deadliest hat laser cowboys in the west. Or take -1 to hit in cover if you think they'll fail a charge roll because you're a SISSY.

Shining Spear Exarchs; 3++ power. Turn it into a 2++ rerollable if you like with Protect. Blade Master and Lancer also seem good, with one being low-risk and the other being higher reward.

Hawks: Grenades and Overwatch are both awesome IMO. Maybe if the new kit has a decent ranged weapon for the exarch then the Dakka power might be useful.

Reapers: They have 2 good ones, with the extra shot and the reroll power for the launcher.

Spiders: Surprise assault and Spider's Lair are both definitely better than rr morale, so I can't complain much.

Crimson Hunters: Lets make this unit more OP good job GW. Now they can move and fire heavy. Good stuff.

I just didn't see any Craftworld traits which blow my skirt up - or are as solid and useful across all of the units. I appreciate they're good for adjusting if you're building a certain type of list, but almost none of them match the general quality of a 6+ FNP roll, etc. I prefer simple army traits which are useful on 95% of the units in the codex. The Craftworld ones in this book let you specialize, and I can see that being a boon for tournament play, but for a general build-a-Craftworld I found them underwhelming.

Regarding the Exarch traits...you kind of made my point there. Why have a list of 6 traits when only one or two are worthwhile? I would have preferred a simpler, more focused 3-trait list. It's a bit of false advertising if half of your "options" are objectively garbage and will never be taken. As far as I'm concerned that's wasted paper you're printing at a certain point.

On a lighter note, I think "Avenging Strikes" could actually be the sleeper here. Lose a model, and you hit on 2's and damage almost anything on a 5? There could be a sneaky Asurmen/Dire Avenger combo thing here...run up the board with 4+ invulnerables and hope you lose a model or two per unit. Sadly once your opponent figures it out they'll treat them like Necrons, ensuring they destroy the unit entirely.