Best way to equip a land raider

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**Djangomatic82**

Regarding the Godhammer pattern LR, I think it might be better to think of it as a back field anti-tank platform that you transport other anti-tank units you don't want being shot off the board if you lose turn 1. Maybe use it to hold a full lascannon dev squad or dev centurions.

**Slayer-Fan123**

nekooni wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Crusader is the only one that makes sense.
1. Flamer one likely won't always fire and runs a bigger risk of being stopped in melee, even WITH improved Overwatch. Unless you're running the 3" range weapon bonus or Ultramarines, consider this a hard pass. On top of that, the weapons don't exactly have the same preferred target.
2. The Godwin or whatever one has the problem of wanting to transport and paying for expensive weapons that encourage camping. So if you get tied up, that's even more points being wasted. There's better ways to get Lascannons in your army, pure and simple.
3. Meanwhile, the Crusader has its weapons all around the same range and damage pattern, so you know what you want to point it at. The increased capacity also means that, assuming you wanted to transport stuff, you can do more of it.

However they all aren't good because they can be stopped by a single Gaunt throwing itself in front of it, and won't be able to move around.

What's that extra 3'' supposed to do on a Redeemer? That's not the only question I have about your issues with the Redeemer, but it's the one that baffles me the most...

Extra range on the main weapon you're trying to get use of outside the Assault Cannon? For Flamer weapons that's a pretty damn big deal, as that can be crucial for actually firing the darn thing.

**nekooni**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
nekooni wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Crusader is the only one that makes sense.
1. Flamer one likely won't always fire and runs a bigger risk of being stopped in melee, even WITH improved Overwatch. Unless you're running the 3" range weapon bonus or Ultramarines, consider this a hard pass. On top of that, the weapons don't exactly have the same preferred target.
2. The Godwin or whatever one has the problem of wanting to transport and paying for expensive weapons that encourage camping. So if you get tied up, that's even more points being wasted. There's better ways to get Lascannons in your army, pure and simple.
3. Meanwhile, the Crusader has its weapons all around the same range and damage pattern, so you know what you want to point it at. The increased capacity also means that, assuming you wanted to transport stuff, you can do more of it.

However they all aren't good because they can be stopped by a single Gaunt throwing itself in front of it, and won't be able to move around.

What's that extra 3'' supposed to do on a Redeemer? That's not the only question I have about your issues with the Redeemer, but it's the one that baffles me the most...

Extra range on the main weapon you're trying to get use of outside the Assault Cannon? For Flamer weapons that's a pretty damn big deal, as that can be crucial for actually firing the darn thing.

Yeah, but having 15" instead of 12" isn't that big a deal in my opinion - I'd rather ignore Ap-1. If they were still stuck at 8" I'd see your point, but they fixed that.

**stonehorse**

Best to assemble the model that you think looks the best. Editions change, codexes change, and as a result so do unit entries.

Building it to follow what is the best now, isn't always a safe bet as come the next change it may be not be as good as it once was. Essentially chasing the meta is fruitless as the meta is always going to change.

**Xenomancers**

Galef wrote:
nekooni wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:

Ultramarines super doctrine states you count as stationary.
but why does that matter when a LR has PotMS anyway?
Xeno is missing the point that Bolters DO NOT always get Bolter Discipline. Only Infantry, Bikes, Terminators, Centurions and Dreads get it.
If a LR doesn't move (or doesn't count as moving) they STILL will not automatically get double shots unless the target is in half range, just like every other RF weapon

-

Humm - It seems you are right. I really doubt that was their desired effect. Vehicles went from always having it active for double shots to not being affected at all? That is weak dude.

The beta bolter rule literally stated all units got access to it. Vehicles also got the bonus to always get double shots - all they had to do was remove vehicles from that list and it would have fixed any problems (there weren't actually any problems marines were weak AF) anyways after reading the new bolter dics rule you are right.

**godardc**

nekooni wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
nekooni wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Crusader is the only one that makes sense.
1. Flamer one likely won't always fire and runs a bigger risk of being stopped in melee, even WITH improved Overwatch. Unless you're running the 3" range weapon bonus or Ultramarines, consider this a hard pass. On top of that, the weapons don't exactly have the same preferred target.
2. The Godwin or whatever one has the problem of wanting to transport and paying for expensive weapons that encourage camping. So if you get tied up, that's even more points being wasted. There's better ways to get Lascannons in your army, pure and simple.
3. Meanwhile, the Crusader has its weapons all around the same range and damage pattern, so you know what you want to point it at. The increased capacity also means that, assuming you wanted to transport stuff, you can do more of it.

However they all aren't good because they can be stopped by a single Gaunt throwing itself in front of it, and won't be able to move around.

What's that extra 3'' supposed to do on a Redeemer? That's not the only question I have about your issues with the Redeemer, but it's the one that baffles me the most...

Extra range on the main weapon you're trying to get use of outside the Assault Cannon? For Flamer weapons that's a pretty damn big deal, as that can be crucial for actually firing the darn thing.

Yeah, but having 15" instead of 12" isn't that big a deal in my opinion - I'd rather ignore Ap-1. If they were still stuck at 8" I'd see your point, but they fixed that.

Ignoring ap-1 ? On a 2+ save LR ? There is almost no ap-1 in the actual game and a 2+ save doesn't really care about this.
Playing it as Ultramarines, especially if it is a Redeemer, seems pretty good: fall back and burn they all again. +3 when you only have 12" in range is HUGE I would say. I think it's the best you can do.

**nekooni**

godardc wrote:
Ignoring ap-1 ? On a 2+ save LR ? There is almost no ap-1 in the actual game and a 2+ save doesn't really care about this.
Playing it as Ultramarines, especially if it is a Redeemer, seems pretty good: fall back and burn they all again. +3 when you only have 12" in range is HUGE I would say. I think it's the best you can do.

a) What kind of game are you playing that has no bolt rifles, no assault cannons, no autocannons, no heavy bolters etc etc. - ignoring that AP and staying at 2+ instead of a 3+ is something you should care about, especially against high RoF weapons.

b) im not disputing UM being a great choice

c) as I said - I disagree on the +3" one. Just taking UM is way superior to that range increase, in my opinion. That's an even clearer case than eg Salamanders.

**Klickor**

Against Marines you wont get much use of that ignore ap1 since they can use doctrines to be at ap 2 instead of 1 for their heavy weapons or bolt rifles. Does nothing against all the ap 0 and ap 2-3 weapons out there. If marines didnt get doctrines and wouldnt be the next big thing in the meta then the ignore ap 1 would be good. I would rather go successor for Salamanders I think to replace that with something else. Master Artisans can stay though since it is really good for MSU or unit with partial rerolls(reroll those 2s that a captain/LT wont let you reroll)

**Galef**

Xenomancers wrote:
I really doubt that was their desired effect. Vehicles went from always having it active for double shots to not being affected at all? That is weak dude.

While I agree, VEHICLE should get it, I do remember prior to the latest SM update, the Beta Bolter rule was made official and on the Warhammer Community article, they specifically said "We made an oopsie and don't want Hurricane Bolters getting 12 Shots all the time, except on Centurions because they're currently lame and need as much help as we can give them, besides actually making them good".
Obviously that's a paraphrase on my part, but GW did indeed remove BD from Vehicles intentionally, therefore it was their desired affect.

Honestly, I'm kinda at the point where 9th edition needs to come and all these special rules/abilities need to disappear and be incorporated in the base statlines like they SHOULD have been at the start of 8th. Stock Marines should just be 2W, 2A with AP-1 Bolters all the time. Primaris can get T5/S5 and extra range instead.

-

**nekooni**

Klickor wrote:
Against Marines you wont get much use of that ignore ap1 since they can use doctrines to be at ap 2 instead of 1 for their heavy weapons or bolt rifles. Does nothing against all the ap 0 and ap 2-3 weapons out there. If marines didnt get doctrines and wouldnt be the next big thing in the meta then the ignore ap 1 would be good. I would rather go successor for Salamanders I think to replace that with something else. Master Artisans can stay though since it is really good for MSU or unit with partial rerolls(reroll those 2s that a captain/LT wont let you reroll)

Yeah, I COULD now start to list all the ap0 marine weapons that benefit from doctrines and all of the ap-1 weapons everyone else has, but I think you got my point that yes, there are ap-1 weapons all over the game.

**Insectum7**

Djangomatic82 wrote:
Regarding the Godhammer pattern LR, I think it might be better to think of it as a back field anti-tank platform that you transport other anti-tank units you don't want being shot off the board if you lose turn 1. Maybe use it to hold a full lascannon dev squad or dev centurions.

When I've run it, this is how I use it. It starts as a mobile bunker and turns into a moving LOS wall once the troops are out.

**Slayer-Fan123**

nekooni wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
nekooni wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Crusader is the only one that makes sense.
1. Flamer one likely won't always fire and runs a bigger risk of being stopped in melee, even WITH improved Overwatch. Unless you're running the 3" range weapon bonus or Ultramarines, consider this a hard pass. On top of that, the weapons don't exactly have the same preferred target.
2. The Godwin or whatever one has the problem of wanting to transport and paying for expensive weapons that encourage camping. So if you get tied up, that's even more points being wasted. There's better ways to get Lascannons in your army, pure and simple.
3. Meanwhile, the Crusader has its weapons all around the same range and damage pattern, so you know what you want to point it at. The increased capacity also means that, assuming you wanted to transport stuff, you can do more of it.

However they all aren't good because they can be stopped by a single Gaunt throwing itself in front of it, and won't be able to move around.

What's that extra 3'' supposed to do on a Redeemer? That's not the only question I have about your issues with the Redeemer, but it's the one that baffles me the most...

Extra range on the main weapon you're trying to get use of outside the Assault Cannon? For Flamer weapons that's a pretty damn big deal, as that can be crucial for actually firing the darn thing.

Yeah, but having 15" instead of 12" isn't that big a deal in my opinion - I'd rather ignore Ap-1. If they were still stuck at 8" I'd see your point, but they fixed that.

It's all the same kinda range, hence my statement. The weapon REALLY needs it. You've seen how fast a Land Raider moves, right?

**Insectum7**

They should have made the Redeemer Flamers Assault weapons as well.

**nekooni**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
nekooni wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
nekooni wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Crusader is the only one that makes sense.
1. Flamer one likely won't always fire and runs a bigger risk of being stopped in melee, even WITH improved Overwatch. Unless you're running the 3" range weapon bonus or Ultramarines, consider this a hard pass. On top of that, the weapons don't exactly have the same preferred target.
2. The Godwin or whatever one has the problem of wanting to transport and paying for expensive weapons that encourage camping. So if you get tied up, that's even more points being wasted. There's better ways to get Lascannons in your army, pure and simple.
3. Meanwhile, the Crusader has its weapons all around the same range and damage pattern, so you know what you want to point it at. The increased capacity also means that, assuming you wanted to transport stuff, you can do more of it.

However they all aren't good because they can be stopped by a single Gaunt throwing itself in front of it, and won't be able to move around.

What's that extra 3'' supposed to do on a Redeemer? That's not the only question I have about your issues with the Redeemer, but it's the one that baffles me the most...

Extra range on the main weapon you're trying to get use of outside the Assault Cannon? For Flamer weapons that's a pretty damn big deal, as that can be crucial for actually firing the darn thing.

Yeah, but having 15" instead of 12" isn't that big a deal in my opinion - I'd rather ignore Ap-1. If they were still stuck at 8" I'd see your point, but they fixed that.

It's all the same kinda range, hence my statement. The weapon REALLY needs it. You've seen how fast a Land Raider moves, right?

Yeah, I'm playing with one right now that just killed a daemon prince. 12" works fine

**Slayer-Fan123**

nekooni wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
nekooni wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
nekooni wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Crusader is the only one that makes sense.
1. Flamer one likely won't always fire and runs a bigger risk of being stopped in melee, even WITH improved Overwatch. Unless you're running the 3" range weapon bonus or Ultramarines, consider this a hard pass. On top of that, the weapons don't exactly have the same preferred target.
2. The Godwin or whatever one has the problem of wanting to transport and paying for expensive weapons that encourage camping. So if you get tied up, that's even more points being wasted. There's better ways to get Lascannons in your army, pure and simple.
3. Meanwhile, the Crusader has its weapons all around the same range and damage pattern, so you know what you want to point it at. The increased capacity also means that, assuming you wanted to transport stuff, you can do more of it.

However they all aren't good because they can be stopped by a single Gaunt throwing itself in front of it, and won't be able to move around.

What's that extra 3'' supposed to do on a Redeemer? That's not the only question I have about your issues with the Redeemer, but it's the one that baffles me the most...

Extra range on the main weapon you're trying to get use of outside the Assault Cannon? For Flamer weapons that's a pretty damn big deal, as that can be crucial for actually firing the darn thing.

Yeah, but having 15" instead of 12" isn't that big a deal in my opinion - I'd rather ignore Ap-1. If they were still stuck at 8" I'd see your point, but they fixed that.

It's all the same kinda range, hence my statement. The weapon REALLY needs it. You've seen how fast a Land Raider moves, right?

Yeah, I'm playing with one right now that just killed a daemon prince. 12" works fine

No it doesn't. You killing a Daemon Prince once is not a good argument that the weapon is fine as is.

**nekooni**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
nekooni wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
nekooni wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
nekooni wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Crusader is the only one that makes sense.
1. Flamer one likely won't always fire and runs a bigger risk of being stopped in melee, even WITH improved Overwatch. Unless you're running the 3" range weapon bonus or Ultramarines, consider this a hard pass. On top of that, the weapons don't exactly have the same preferred target.
2. The Godwin or whatever one has the problem of wanting to transport and paying for expensive weapons that encourage camping. So if you get tied up, that's even more points being wasted. There's better ways to get Lascannons in your army, pure and simple.
3. Meanwhile, the Crusader has its weapons all around the same range and damage pattern, so you know what you want to point it at. The increased capacity also means that, assuming you wanted to transport stuff, you can do more of it.

However they all aren't good because they can be stopped by a single Gaunt throwing itself in front of it, and won't be able to move around.

What's that extra 3'' supposed to do on a Redeemer? That's not the only question I have about your issues with the Redeemer, but it's the one that baffles me the most...

Extra range on the main weapon you're trying to get use of outside the Assault Cannon? For Flamer weapons that's a pretty damn big deal, as that can be crucial for actually firing the darn thing.

Yeah, but having 15" instead of 12" isn't that big a deal in my opinion - I'd rather ignore Ap-1. If they were still stuck at 8" I'd see your point, but they fixed that.

It's all the same kinda range, hence my statement. The weapon REALLY needs it. You've seen how fast a Land Raider moves, right?

Yeah, I'm playing with one right now that just killed a daemon prince. 12" works fine

No it doesn't. You killing a Daemon Prince once is not a good argument that the weapon is fine as is.

But it managed to kill three daemon princes in total this game!

(yes, that's anecdotal and pointless, I know. I didn't say a Redeemer is "fine as is". I was just saying "yeah I know how fast a redeemer is. I play one frequently since the codex update, and it's doing reasonably well as a Salamander" )
((and today my redeemer was on fire, hestan helped a lot though))

**Pancakey**

Primaris cannot ride inside a landraider because reasons. Don’t invest time in a dead unit. Anything not primaris will be removed from the game very very soon.