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Hi everyone,

I have quite a large collection of games at home now (probably too many ;-)) but I am still missing a good wargame with minis, whereby one has a set amount of points to create one's army. I have been looking for quite some time (basically since june, buf life intruded...) as I am going back and forth between different games. 

As my knowledge was limited, I initially gravited towards Age of Sigmar and W40K as they were the more popular. However, given my requirements (I did not want armies with tons of figs, was ideally looking for a smaller than 4 x 6' footprint and max 2-3 hrs playing time, playable at a 3-player count, no hidden info so that I can "practice" solo...), people recommended other games such as Kill Team, Warcry, Warmachines, Infinity...

So, I investigated all of them, and I arrived at the following conclusions :

KT/Warcry : I am not sure I am looking for a skirmish game with a very low model count. I already have board games like this and will probably get Super Fantasy Brawl 

Infinity : a bit related to the above and hidden info plays a heavy role in the game

Warmachines : seems to check a lot of my boxes (for instance, I was looking for a good variety in abilities, varied factions/races with a lot of possibilities for customization of one's army, i.e., different playstyle within the same faction), but I am afraid (i) it might be a bit too competitive/complex for me at first and (ii) the game is not in a very great state right now and the community down there in France has become rather small.

So, I am back here, looking at AoS and W40K again, and I have a few questions :
 

do you play other board games or does AoS/40K consumes all your time ? 

How many armies do you collect ? This is an issue I have trouble wrapping my mind around. Indeed, I have played a lot of CCgs over time, board games with different races or factions, and even though I know it is usually better to focus on 1-2 races/factions/deck to get to know it inside out, I am usually the type of person that likes to dabble around (because I like exploring different sets of abilities). In a game such as AoS/W40K, this seems much harder to achieve. How do you deal with it ? 

Are you primarily a painter or a player ? I am asking this because when I look at a few reddit subs I have the impression that discussions about painting abound, whereas those about strategies are much more limited. I have taken up painting a few months ago and I quite like it, but I am still an avid boardgamer and I still want to have a "good" game beyond it. In other words, although I like painting and find it relaxing (and it has helped me over the summer after a family loss), I see it more as a byproduct of a game. 

On to more specific/gameplay questions (for some of you that play both AoS and W40K): 

How much variability/agency  is there in AoS vs. W40K with regard to list building ? Looking at GW's website and other resources, it seems there are much fewer models in AoS, which seems logical as it is newer. Does it curtail list buidling ? Also, I was under the impression that there was quite a few sub-factions that were really well-integrated in general. 

How diverse are the different factions in terms of gameplay/abilities in AoS vs. W40K ? As I said previously, I like when units have interesting abilities and are more than just their statlines (something which, I think, Warmachine does rather well). 

In terms of competitive meta, is AoS more varied than W40K, in general ? I have read that today's meta in W40K was quite biased towards Iron Hands but what about previous metas ? 

What do you think of Meeting engagement ? Given the aforementioned preferences, I am intrigued by this format, if I want to practice at home or play with my friends (they probably would like the game but they won't buy any models....and as we mostly play at their place, it would be easier for me to bring 1000pts armies and playing time would be a bit lowered). Also, would it be possible to adapt it to W40K ? I am wondering this because ME is a big advantage AoS has over W40K for me, as it could ease me into the game and allow me to play shorter games. AoS also has warcry, and, even though I don't really want it to be my main game, it could be a nice change of pace.

I have found the wonderful Goonhammer site but their "Start competing" articles, which are great for 40K, are for the moment non-existent for AoS. Are there other sites that discuss the factions in details from a competitive perspective ? 

thanks ! 

**do you play other board games or does AoS/40K consumes all your time ? **

I play kings of war, conquest, battletech, and blood bowl pretty regularly.

**How many armies do you collect ?**
In AOS I had 6 different armies. In 40k I had 5. My AOS armies are now all kings of war armies, and in Conquest I have 3 forces and will be getting a fourth when the nords drop.

**Are you primarily a painter or a player?**
Both. I love hobbying, love playing, but really love story telling and being able to have a wide variety of forces mix it up on the table.

**How much variability/agency is there in AoS vs. W40K with regard to list building ? Looking at GW's website and other resources, it seems there are much fewer models in AoS, which seems logical as it is newer. Does it curtail list buidling ? Also, I was under the impression that there was quite a few sub-factions that were really well-integrated in general. **

I don't fully understand the question. AOS can have a lot of models, and they can also have a small number of models. It depends on the build you are after. Does it curtail list building? The game of AOS is all about list building. It caters to those that love list building and winning the game in the list building phase so I'd say no it does not curtail list building at all.

**How diverse are the different factions in terms of gameplay/abilities in AoS vs. W40K ? As I said previously, I like when units have interesting abilities and are more than just their statlines (something which, I think, Warmachine does rather well). **

Different opinions will offer different takes. There are to me three different variations of play styles in AOS.

There is the gross damage output alpha strike build. There is the tank durability / summon free points build. And there is the speed build.

Some of those will blend into each other. You typically want to max those three aspects, and I find most forces when you boil them down come to those.

**In terms of competitive meta, is AoS more varied than W40K, in general ? I have read that today's meta in W40K was quite biased towards Iron Hands but what about previous metas ? **

Not at all they are very similar. There are a handful of really powerful busted builds, a handful of trash armies that you'll never see, and a fairly large number of middle tier armies and builds that you'll see a bit of but get crushed by the upper builds.

The iron hands are only recently a thing because their latest book broke them, and an FAQ fixed them right away.

**What do you think of Meeting engagement ?**

No one will play it around me so I have no opinion of it. It is basically smaller games with their own balance and negative play issues.

**I have found the wonderful Goonhammer site but their "Start competing" articles, which are great for 40K, are for the moment non-existent for AoS. Are there other sites that discuss the factions in details from a competitive perspective ? **

Twitter has some of the tournament power players posting stuff regularly but no one ever gets really into depth. There has been a large dearth of any material related to actual mechanics and power play, its usually all simple "whats the most powerful list that I can copy?" Largely in part because there isn't much to it from a broad sense. You need to learn screens, you need to learn statistical calculation on the fly, and then the rest of the nuances of the game come from judgement calls.

lillumultipass wrote:

So, I am back here, looking at AoS and W40K again, and I have a few questions :
 

do you play other board games or does AoS/40K consumes all your time ? 

How many armies do you collect ? This is an issue I have trouble wrapping my mind around. Indeed, I have played a lot of CCgs over time, board games with different races or factions, and even though I know it is usually better to focus on 1-2 races/factions/deck to get to know it inside out, I am usually the type of person that likes to dabble around (because I like exploring different sets of abilities). In a game such as AoS/W40K, this seems much harder to achieve. How do you deal with it ? 

Are you primarily a painter or a player ? I am asking this because when I look at a few reddit subs I have the impression that discussions about painting abound, whereas those about strategies are much more limited. I have taken up painting a few months ago and I quite like it, but I am still an avid boardgamer and I still want to have a "good" game beyond it. In other words, although I like painting and find it relaxing (and it has helped me over the summer after a family loss), I see it more as a byproduct of a game. 

FWIW, I used to collect multiple armies. These days, I limit myself to 1 army per game system and sometimes pick up a second if I get really invested, but I play about everything. Warmachine, Infinity, 40k, Malifaux, Monsterpocalypse, Batman, AoS and more. I've been much happier having an army to play whatever game people are up for than I was when I had to dedicate myself to the community for a single system.

Do you like Super Heroes? You can try Knight Models DCU miniatures game. 5-8 figures per team, and you could easily get cheap-o Wizkids Heroclix to try it out. They also did a Marvel version which is now OOP, but was a lot of fun. Facebook keeps it alive and brings out new characters for it.

Sounds more like what you’re looking for, if heroes work.

 auticus wrote:
**do you play other board games or does AoS/40K consumes all your time ? **

I play kings of war, conquest, battletech, and blood bowl pretty regularly.

**How many armies do you collect ?**
In AOS I had 6 different armies. In 40k I had 5. My AOS armies are now all kings of war armies, and in Conquest I have 3 forces and will be getting a fourth when the nords drop.

**Are you primarily a painter or a player?**
Both. I love hobbying, love playing, but really love story telling and being able to have a wide variety of forces mix it up on the table.

**How much variability/agency is there in AoS vs. W40K with regard to list building ? Looking at GW's website and other resources, it seems there are much fewer models in AoS, which seems logical as it is newer. Does it curtail list buidling ? Also, I was under the impression that there was quite a few sub-factions that were really well-integrated in general. **

I don't fully understand the question. AOS can have a lot of models, and they can also have a small number of models. It depends on the build you are after. Does it curtail list building? The game of AOS is all about list building. It caters to those that love list building and winning the game in the list building phase so I'd say no it does not curtail list building at all.

**How diverse are the different factions in terms of gameplay/abilities in AoS vs. W40K ? As I said previously, I like when units have interesting abilities and are more than just their statlines (something which, I think, Warmachine does rather well). **

Different opinions will offer different takes. There are to me three different variations of play styles in AOS.

There is the gross damage output alpha strike build. There is the tank durability / summon free points build. And there is the speed build.

Some of those will blend into each other. You typically want to max those three aspects, and I find most forces when you boil them down come to those.

**In terms of competitive meta, is AoS more varied than W40K, in general ? I have read that today's meta in W40K was quite biased towards Iron Hands but what about previous metas ? **

Not at all they are very similar. There are a handful of really powerful busted builds, a handful of trash armies that you'll never see, and a fairly large number of middle tier armies and builds that you'll see a bit of but get crushed by the upper builds.

The iron hands are only recently a thing because their latest book broke them, and an FAQ fixed them right away.

**What do you think of Meeting engagement ?**

No one will play it around me so I have no opinion of it. It is basically smaller games with their own balance and negative play issues.

**I have found the wonderful Goonhammer site but their "Start competing" articles, which are great for 40K, are for the moment non-existent for AoS. Are there other sites that discuss the factions in details from a competitive perspective ? **

Twitter has some of the tournament power players posting stuff regularly but no one ever gets really into depth. There has been a large dearth of any material related to actual mechanics and power play, its usually all simple "whats the most powerful list that I can copy?" Largely in part because there isn't much to it from a broad sense. You need to learn screens, you need to learn statistical calculation on the fly, and then the rest of the nuances of the game come from judgement calls.

thanks for the detailed answer !
As to list building, my question was probably not very clear : I was wondering whether AoS was more limited in that respect due to having fewer units in each faction.
Anyhow, you are not painting AoS/W40K under a very good light...
Food for thought (as sometimes it is a bit my fear,i.e., this is first and foremost about the painting, and then only about the game...)



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Do you like Super Heroes? You can try Knight Models DCU miniatures game. 5-8 figures per team, and you could easily get cheap-o Wizkids Heroclix to try it out. They also did a Marvel version which is now OOP, but was a lot of fun. Facebook keeps it alive and brings out new characters for it.

Sounds more like what you’re looking for, if heroes work.

As a matter of fact, I do, but I am waiting for Marvel Crisis Protocol which looks cool !
However, I see it more as a skirmish game with a very limited number of models; whereas I would also like a game with larger armies.

For number of units available, it depends what faction you pick. Some are very limited, but Stormcast Eternalrs or Legions of Nagash have tons of options.