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2019/10/21 15:49:03
Subject: A crazy thought that might actually be good: let's kill Craftworld Eldars
craggy wrote: I'm all for Corsairs and Exodites getting some love, but with the majority here, keep the Craftworlds and add the new stuff. Corsairs would be a good way to soup up Eldar of any faction without having to have them completely abandon their fluff and they could do some interesting things with Exodites leaving their home world. Perhaps they go on a pilgrimage when reaching a certain age, or they've heard about the Ynarri and want to join them? More new stuff is good, but not at the expense of the classics.
Corsairs are just an upgrade sprue pack, and their rules are already done, its almost a perfect 1 for 1 fit from 7th to 8th. Also if you remove Ynnari and put them as Corsairs (as Ynnari should have been anyways IMO) its not another faction at that point, its 1 less faction actually (4 instead of 5).
Oh I missed that. Where can I find rules for Princes, Barons, Void Dreamers, Coteries, Malevolents, Ghostwalkers and their psychic powers? Wait a second. That's gone. I must be misunderstanding a near perfect 1 for 1 fit then!
Did you miss the part were i said they are a perfect fit from "7th" to "8"?
No. I just don't see what difference that makes.
The purpose of what i was saying, Corsairs was made in 7th, their rules (if you actually looked at them) are already set up for 8th (traits. aka subfactions, and detachment system) they are easier to plug into 8th than other armies.
Given that, and they are small kits (3-4 upgrade sprues kits then just a couple characters) put Ynnari characters withe them (b.c they already are the outcasts aeldari) it would be really easy to have them fit into 8th and fix the ynnari crap at the same time.
If you're being serious then you've grossly misunderstood how 8th works. Corsairs fitted into 7ths decurions via their Coterie. They don't plug into 8th at all because they have no subfactions, no traits and almost no units. If you want to make homerules that's fine but don't pretend that it's some kind of official set of rules that are "already done".
Then you didnt play them in 7th, b.c they did have subfactions called Coterie Specializations, a Coterie was a detachment (as 8th knows it), basically a smaller patrol detachment (1 HQ, 1-3 troops, 0-2 elites, 0-2 fast, 0-1 heavy)
Each coterie took a specialization from a list of 6 different ones, they then got specialist rules for those units in that specialization.
How in any way is that not "ready for 8th", their specialization ARE TRAITS, they already played with a detachment system and balanced around that.
craggy wrote: I'm all for Corsairs and Exodites getting some love, but with the majority here, keep the Craftworlds and add the new stuff. Corsairs would be a good way to soup up Eldar of any faction without having to have them completely abandon their fluff and they could do some interesting things with Exodites leaving their home world. Perhaps they go on a pilgrimage when reaching a certain age, or they've heard about the Ynarri and want to join them? More new stuff is good, but not at the expense of the classics.
Corsairs are just an upgrade sprue pack, and their rules are already done, its almost a perfect 1 for 1 fit from 7th to 8th. Also if you remove Ynnari and put them as Corsairs (as Ynnari should have been anyways IMO) its not another faction at that point, its 1 less faction actually (4 instead of 5).
Oh I missed that. Where can I find rules for Princes, Barons, Void Dreamers, Coteries, Malevolents, Ghostwalkers and their psychic powers? Wait a second. That's gone. I must be misunderstanding a near perfect 1 for 1 fit then!
Did you miss the part were i said they are a perfect fit from "7th" to "8"?
No. I just don't see what difference that makes.
The purpose of what i was saying, Corsairs was made in 7th, their rules (if you actually looked at them) are already set up for 8th (traits. aka subfactions, and detachment system) they are easier to plug into 8th than other armies.
Given that, and they are small kits (3-4 upgrade sprues kits then just a couple characters) put Ynnari characters withe them (b.c they already are the outcasts aeldari) it would be really easy to have them fit into 8th and fix the ynnari crap at the same time.
If you're being serious then you've grossly misunderstood how 8th works. Corsairs fitted into 7ths decurions via their Coterie. They don't plug into 8th at all because they have no subfactions, no traits and almost no units. If you want to make homerules that's fine but don't pretend that it's some kind of official set of rules that are "already done".
Then you didnt play them in 7th, b.c they did have subfactions called Coterie Specializations, a Coterie was a detachment (as 8th knows it), basically a smaller patrol detachment (1 HQ, 1-3 troops, 0-2 elites, 0-2 fast, 0-1 heavy)
Each coterie took a specialization from a list of 6 different ones, they then got specialist rules for those units in that specialization.
How in any way is that not "ready for 8th", their specialization ARE TRAITS, they already played with a detachment system and balanced around that.
I literally mentioned the Coterie system as equivalents to the decurions. The detachments are just various FOC's.
They aren't ready for 8th because THEY WERE REMOVED. I don't understand why you're insisting that Corsairs can just be slotted into 8th when they literally cannot be an army by themselves. I'm not saying they're dead because their special rules got nerfed, I'm saying they're dead because most of their army choices were cut out from the game.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
2019/10/21 19:44:55
Subject: Re:A crazy thought that might actually be good: let's kill Craftworld Eldars
Ignoring the lazy recent fan-fiction lore of Ynnari...Eldar lore/fiction (namely their origins in 2nd edition etc.) is some of the best written and most logical material in the game. What GW is struggling to do is write material on par or better than that, and they haven't been able to - just as they haven't been able to better the styling of Goodwin's original line.
So if the thread is "let's wipe out one of the best written lores in the game...for some crappy modern gak"...then, no.
2019/10/22 03:10:47
Subject: Re:A crazy thought that might actually be good: let's kill Craftworld Eldars
Elbows wrote: Ignoring the lazy recent fan-fiction lore of Ynnari...Eldar lore/fiction (namely their origins in 2nd edition etc.) is some of the best written and most logical material in the game. What GW is struggling to do is write material on par or better than that, and they haven't been able to - just as they haven't been able to better the styling of Goodwin's original line.
So if the thread is "let's wipe out one of the best written lores in the game...for some crappy modern gak"...then, no.
craggy wrote: I'm all for Corsairs and Exodites getting some love, but with the majority here, keep the Craftworlds and add the new stuff. Corsairs would be a good way to soup up Eldar of any faction without having to have them completely abandon their fluff and they could do some interesting things with Exodites leaving their home world. Perhaps they go on a pilgrimage when reaching a certain age, or they've heard about the Ynarri and want to join them? More new stuff is good, but not at the expense of the classics.
Corsairs are just an upgrade sprue pack, and their rules are already done, its almost a perfect 1 for 1 fit from 7th to 8th. Also if you remove Ynnari and put them as Corsairs (as Ynnari should have been anyways IMO) its not another faction at that point, its 1 less faction actually (4 instead of 5).
Oh I missed that. Where can I find rules for Princes, Barons, Void Dreamers, Coteries, Malevolents, Ghostwalkers and their psychic powers? Wait a second. That's gone. I must be misunderstanding a near perfect 1 for 1 fit then!
Did you miss the part were i said they are a perfect fit from "7th" to "8"?
No. I just don't see what difference that makes.
The purpose of what i was saying, Corsairs was made in 7th, their rules (if you actually looked at them) are already set up for 8th (traits. aka subfactions, and detachment system) they are easier to plug into 8th than other armies.
Given that, and they are small kits (3-4 upgrade sprues kits then just a couple characters) put Ynnari characters withe them (b.c they already are the outcasts aeldari) it would be really easy to have them fit into 8th and fix the ynnari crap at the same time.
If you're being serious then you've grossly misunderstood how 8th works. Corsairs fitted into 7ths decurions via their Coterie. They don't plug into 8th at all because they have no subfactions, no traits and almost no units. If you want to make homerules that's fine but don't pretend that it's some kind of official set of rules that are "already done".
Then you didnt play them in 7th, b.c they did have subfactions called Coterie Specializations, a Coterie was a detachment (as 8th knows it), basically a smaller patrol detachment (1 HQ, 1-3 troops, 0-2 elites, 0-2 fast, 0-1 heavy)
Each coterie took a specialization from a list of 6 different ones, they then got specialist rules for those units in that specialization.
How in any way is that not "ready for 8th", their specialization ARE TRAITS, they already played with a detachment system and balanced around that.
I literally mentioned the Coterie system as equivalents to the decurions. The detachments are just various FOC's.
They aren't ready for 8th because THEY WERE REMOVED. I don't understand why you're insisting that Corsairs can just be slotted into 8th when they literally cannot be an army by themselves. I'm not saying they're dead because their special rules got nerfed, I'm saying they're dead because most of their army choices were cut out from the game.
B.c the old rules are still there and you can look back on, how is this that hard for you? Just b.c they have gak rules for 8th doesnt mean the older rules are not and not easily plug and play. It would take just an hours of work to make them ready for 8th looking at the 7th rules and the other DE/CWE rules/stats.
craggy wrote: I'm all for Corsairs and Exodites getting some love, but with the majority here, keep the Craftworlds and add the new stuff. Corsairs would be a good way to soup up Eldar of any faction without having to have them completely abandon their fluff and they could do some interesting things with Exodites leaving their home world. Perhaps they go on a pilgrimage when reaching a certain age, or they've heard about the Ynarri and want to join them? More new stuff is good, but not at the expense of the classics.
Corsairs are just an upgrade sprue pack, and their rules are already done, its almost a perfect 1 for 1 fit from 7th to 8th. Also if you remove Ynnari and put them as Corsairs (as Ynnari should have been anyways IMO) its not another faction at that point, its 1 less faction actually (4 instead of 5).
Oh I missed that. Where can I find rules for Princes, Barons, Void Dreamers, Coteries, Malevolents, Ghostwalkers and their psychic powers? Wait a second. That's gone. I must be misunderstanding a near perfect 1 for 1 fit then!
Did you miss the part were i said they are a perfect fit from "7th" to "8"?
No. I just don't see what difference that makes.
The purpose of what i was saying, Corsairs was made in 7th, their rules (if you actually looked at them) are already set up for 8th (traits. aka subfactions, and detachment system) they are easier to plug into 8th than other armies.
Given that, and they are small kits (3-4 upgrade sprues kits then just a couple characters) put Ynnari characters withe them (b.c they already are the outcasts aeldari) it would be really easy to have them fit into 8th and fix the ynnari crap at the same time.
If you're being serious then you've grossly misunderstood how 8th works. Corsairs fitted into 7ths decurions via their Coterie. They don't plug into 8th at all because they have no subfactions, no traits and almost no units. If you want to make homerules that's fine but don't pretend that it's some kind of official set of rules that are "already done".
Then you didnt play them in 7th, b.c they did have subfactions called Coterie Specializations, a Coterie was a detachment (as 8th knows it), basically a smaller patrol detachment (1 HQ, 1-3 troops, 0-2 elites, 0-2 fast, 0-1 heavy)
Each coterie took a specialization from a list of 6 different ones, they then got specialist rules for those units in that specialization.
How in any way is that not "ready for 8th", their specialization ARE TRAITS, they already played with a detachment system and balanced around that.
I literally mentioned the Coterie system as equivalents to the decurions. The detachments are just various FOC's.
They aren't ready for 8th because THEY WERE REMOVED. I don't understand why you're insisting that Corsairs can just be slotted into 8th when they literally cannot be an army by themselves. I'm not saying they're dead because their special rules got nerfed, I'm saying they're dead because most of their army choices were cut out from the game.
B.c the old rules are still there and you can look back on, how is this that hard for you? Just b.c they have gak rules for 8th doesnt mean the older rules are not and not easily plug and play. It would take just an hours of work to make them ready for 8th looking at the 7th rules and the other DE/CWE rules/stats.
I can look back on rules for 5th ed Space Wolves too but that doesn't mean they're playable. Do you know what plug and play is? 6th codex in 7th was plug and play. You're talking about making your own fan rules. Just admit Corsairs being a "perfect fit from 7th to 8th" is a load of rubbish.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
2019/10/23 13:59:27
Subject: A crazy thought that might actually be good: let's kill Craftworld Eldars
What Craftworlds truly need is a good writer. Someone who could pick them up and create a really inspiring, interesting and relatable hero, while working with the basics of eldar lore and making it interesting to read about. Maybe a great series of books, or perhaps even a long running comic with good art. Something eldar players would feel was truly their thing.
And it shouldn't be sentimental Thorpe.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/23 14:00:58
2019/10/23 14:11:25
Subject: A crazy thought that might actually be good: let's kill Craftworld Eldars
craggy wrote: I'm all for Corsairs and Exodites getting some love, but with the majority here, keep the Craftworlds and add the new stuff. Corsairs would be a good way to soup up Eldar of any faction without having to have them completely abandon their fluff and they could do some interesting things with Exodites leaving their home world. Perhaps they go on a pilgrimage when reaching a certain age, or they've heard about the Ynarri and want to join them? More new stuff is good, but not at the expense of the classics.
Corsairs are just an upgrade sprue pack, and their rules are already done, its almost a perfect 1 for 1 fit from 7th to 8th. Also if you remove Ynnari and put them as Corsairs (as Ynnari should have been anyways IMO) its not another faction at that point, its 1 less faction actually (4 instead of 5).
Oh I missed that. Where can I find rules for Princes, Barons, Void Dreamers, Coteries, Malevolents, Ghostwalkers and their psychic powers? Wait a second. That's gone. I must be misunderstanding a near perfect 1 for 1 fit then!
Did you miss the part were i said they are a perfect fit from "7th" to "8"?
No. I just don't see what difference that makes.
The purpose of what i was saying, Corsairs was made in 7th, their rules (if you actually looked at them) are already set up for 8th (traits. aka subfactions, and detachment system) they are easier to plug into 8th than other armies.
Given that, and they are small kits (3-4 upgrade sprues kits then just a couple characters) put Ynnari characters withe them (b.c they already are the outcasts aeldari) it would be really easy to have them fit into 8th and fix the ynnari crap at the same time.
If you're being serious then you've grossly misunderstood how 8th works. Corsairs fitted into 7ths decurions via their Coterie. They don't plug into 8th at all because they have no subfactions, no traits and almost no units. If you want to make homerules that's fine but don't pretend that it's some kind of official set of rules that are "already done".
Then you didnt play them in 7th, b.c they did have subfactions called Coterie Specializations, a Coterie was a detachment (as 8th knows it), basically a smaller patrol detachment (1 HQ, 1-3 troops, 0-2 elites, 0-2 fast, 0-1 heavy)
Each coterie took a specialization from a list of 6 different ones, they then got specialist rules for those units in that specialization.
How in any way is that not "ready for 8th", their specialization ARE TRAITS, they already played with a detachment system and balanced around that.
I literally mentioned the Coterie system as equivalents to the decurions. The detachments are just various FOC's.
They aren't ready for 8th because THEY WERE REMOVED. I don't understand why you're insisting that Corsairs can just be slotted into 8th when they literally cannot be an army by themselves. I'm not saying they're dead because their special rules got nerfed, I'm saying they're dead because most of their army choices were cut out from the game.
B.c the old rules are still there and you can look back on, how is this that hard for you? Just b.c they have gak rules for 8th doesnt mean the older rules are not and not easily plug and play. It would take just an hours of work to make them ready for 8th looking at the 7th rules and the other DE/CWE rules/stats.
I can look back on rules for 5th ed Space Wolves too but that doesn't mean they're playable. Do you know what plug and play is? 6th codex in 7th was plug and play. You're talking about making your own fan rules. Just admit Corsairs being a "perfect fit from 7th to 8th" is a load of rubbish.
I'm not talking about rules per se but how the army was set up, it was set up like how armies are set up in 8th, others agree with me FYI, you are the only one that seems to not agree.
craggy wrote: I'm all for Corsairs and Exodites getting some love, but with the majority here, keep the Craftworlds and add the new stuff. Corsairs would be a good way to soup up Eldar of any faction without having to have them completely abandon their fluff and they could do some interesting things with Exodites leaving their home world. Perhaps they go on a pilgrimage when reaching a certain age, or they've heard about the Ynarri and want to join them? More new stuff is good, but not at the expense of the classics.
Corsairs are just an upgrade sprue pack, and their rules are already done, its almost a perfect 1 for 1 fit from 7th to 8th. Also if you remove Ynnari and put them as Corsairs (as Ynnari should have been anyways IMO) its not another faction at that point, its 1 less faction actually (4 instead of 5).
Oh I missed that. Where can I find rules for Princes, Barons, Void Dreamers, Coteries, Malevolents, Ghostwalkers and their psychic powers? Wait a second. That's gone. I must be misunderstanding a near perfect 1 for 1 fit then!
Did you miss the part were i said they are a perfect fit from "7th" to "8"?
No. I just don't see what difference that makes.
The purpose of what i was saying, Corsairs was made in 7th, their rules (if you actually looked at them) are already set up for 8th (traits. aka subfactions, and detachment system) they are easier to plug into 8th than other armies.
Given that, and they are small kits (3-4 upgrade sprues kits then just a couple characters) put Ynnari characters withe them (b.c they already are the outcasts aeldari) it would be really easy to have them fit into 8th and fix the ynnari crap at the same time.
If you're being serious then you've grossly misunderstood how 8th works. Corsairs fitted into 7ths decurions via their Coterie. They don't plug into 8th at all because they have no subfactions, no traits and almost no units. If you want to make homerules that's fine but don't pretend that it's some kind of official set of rules that are "already done".
Then you didnt play them in 7th, b.c they did have subfactions called Coterie Specializations, a Coterie was a detachment (as 8th knows it), basically a smaller patrol detachment (1 HQ, 1-3 troops, 0-2 elites, 0-2 fast, 0-1 heavy)
Each coterie took a specialization from a list of 6 different ones, they then got specialist rules for those units in that specialization.
How in any way is that not "ready for 8th", their specialization ARE TRAITS, they already played with a detachment system and balanced around that.
I literally mentioned the Coterie system as equivalents to the decurions. The detachments are just various FOC's.
They aren't ready for 8th because THEY WERE REMOVED. I don't understand why you're insisting that Corsairs can just be slotted into 8th when they literally cannot be an army by themselves. I'm not saying they're dead because their special rules got nerfed, I'm saying they're dead because most of their army choices were cut out from the game.
B.c the old rules are still there and you can look back on, how is this that hard for you? Just b.c they have gak rules for 8th doesnt mean the older rules are not and not easily plug and play. It would take just an hours of work to make them ready for 8th looking at the 7th rules and the other DE/CWE rules/stats.
I can look back on rules for 5th ed Space Wolves too but that doesn't mean they're playable. Do you know what plug and play is? 6th codex in 7th was plug and play. You're talking about making your own fan rules. Just admit Corsairs being a "perfect fit from 7th to 8th" is a load of rubbish.
I'm not talking about rules per se but how the army was set up, it was set up like how armies are set up in 8th, others agree with me FYI, you are the only one that seems to not agree.
That happens when you move your goalposts.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
2019/10/27 20:43:48
Subject: Re:A crazy thought that might actually be good: let's kill Craftworld Eldars
I think Eldar lore is the most fascinating to me, especially the Craftworlds. They feel like a sci fi faction but a fantasy version of one. Replace uploaded minds with spirits of the dead, extra-dimensional travel with the webway and futuristic plastics with wraithbone, computer predictions with divining the future.
You can imagine a post-scarcity society adopting something like the Eldar path (although not as extreme). How do you keep your society from submitting to boredom and excesses (the fall) when everything is automated with long life expectancies? - give people choice (paths) but make them excel in that field.
The Eldar I think offer the most freedom of choice to the average alien / human of the universe: which path do you venture on? You can even leave the system altogether and explore the universe as an outcast, returning if you wish. Choose to live a physical and honest life on an exodite world.
I see them as gardeners of the universe, pruning and guiding the 'lesser' races, occasionally weeding out any invaders.
I love the idea that an aspect warrior dons a 'war mask' and applies an art to war. A warrior could be the galaxy's greatest poet, dancer or artist but the enemy would never know.
I would never want the Craftworld Eldar to meet their demise.
Some things though stop me from collecting them as an army: I like the idea of the aspects but would rather them be more abstract and take on a god's aspects like rage, swiftness and cunning etc. Rather than 'striking scorpions' that have to be modelled like scorpions and 'swooping hawks' looking like hawks - we have a whole universe and alien things to dream up rather than base warriors on earth dwelling creatures.
I don't feel that the army plays like a swiftly striking alien force emerging from a webway portal. They should appear, strike and disappear having achieved their objective. Whereas the rules, I think don't really do them justice like having to hold objectives and having stationary dark reapers and tanks. I suppose this is just a general problem with playing the traditional matched game though. Maybe I should encourage more narrative play.
I like them a lot but they could perhaps feel and look more alien.
2019/10/27 21:28:45
Subject: Re:A crazy thought that might actually be good: let's kill Craftworld Eldars
I like them a lot but they could perhaps feel and look more alien.
They'd need to stop being space elves then.
I've always imagined them as more like the space jockeys from the Alien universe. That's what some of the oldest sketches and models looked like anyway
2019/10/27 21:40:17
Subject: Re:A crazy thought that might actually be good: let's kill Craftworld Eldars
I don't feel that the army plays like a swiftly striking alien force emerging from a webway portal. They should appear, strike and disappear having achieved their objective.
What do you expect from the poor Asuryani.......the True Kin on the other hand, play exactly like that.....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/27 21:44:51
VAIROSEAN LIVES!
2019/10/27 21:57:10
Subject: A crazy thought that might actually be good: let's kill Craftworld Eldars
Let's have some lovely new plastic models for stuff we've had in the army for decades, some new rules and stratagems that make each of those aspects good at their speciality, and an appropriate points cost.
2019/11/01 22:04:44
Subject: Re:A crazy thought that might actually be good: let's kill Craftworld Eldars
Wasteland(free from wreck but still stuck on the death world)
If imperium wont ally with eldars they gonna die really soon. I mean sure they look like elves and they are arrogant BUT they are more civilized and they look more human than orks nids necrons and tau.
2019/11/05 17:48:38
Subject: A crazy thought that might actually be good: let's kill Craftworld Eldars
What Craftworlds need are plastics. More than anything else I think.
I'd love to make them my second army but even getting a kill team together is pulling resin teeth.
It'd be nice start if the Start Collecting dropped the war walker for some dire avengers or something.
Though I think there is something to be said for the army being huge and many of the options are withering on the vine. Craftworlds could use some streamlining in that way, though I'm not sure how I'd do it.
Maybe that's what Ynnari can do with a whole codex. Knock back the legacy options and add some ynnari only units (even, maybe, altered datasheets for ynnari versions of things). Give it some whole army rules and a single army keyword, and then subfactions that focus on wraith/aspects/druk.
2019/11/05 17:57:53
Subject: A crazy thought that might actually be good: let's kill Craftworld Eldars
skchsan wrote: So in a nutshell what the OP wants is primaris eldar.
Actually that's what I would like to avoid. I would like to keep the current line of Eldar models, have new plastic version of older and resin models and provided an avenue that would make sense from a product design and selling point of view (which is the one GW is forced to adopt by its very nature). What I don't want is for Craftworlds to live in limbo for the next decade like the Sisters of Battle have for so long hoping for a random new plastic Aspect Warrior kit to drop once every two years or to see the entire line being softly rebooted like its the case for the old Space Marine line with the arrival of the Primaris Marines. The only way out of limbo and reboot is to expand and the only way to expand this already fairly bloated line of models is to split it and create something new, but similar with both parts.
2019/11/06 05:41:48
Subject: A crazy thought that might actually be good: let's kill Craftworld Eldars
skchsan wrote: So in a nutshell what the OP wants is primaris eldar.
Actually that's what I would like to avoid. I would like to keep the current line of Eldar models, have new plastic version of older and resin models and provided an avenue that would make sense from a product design and selling point of view (which is the one GW is forced to adopt by its very nature). What I don't want is for Craftworlds to live in limbo for the next decade like the Sisters of Battle have for so long hoping for a random new plastic Aspect Warrior kit to drop once every two years or to see the entire line being softly rebooted like its the case for the old Space Marine line with the arrival of the Primaris Marines. The only way out of limbo and reboot is to expand and the only way to expand this already fairly bloated line of models is to split it and create something new, but similar with both parts.
I suspect we would have already seen it if the Ynarri had been received as well as intended. But really since there release they have been supported on hope.
The problem with he idea here, is you effectively just be splitting up what makes the craftworlds interesting. They also do not have the unit variety to make full cohesive factions on there own with out crossover despite the large unit slection. So would ether need more units anyway, or you lose the point anyway.
And all you would achieve is making the craftworld eldar more boring and with less selection to work with.
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
