Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi y'all

So, for some context, I have recently gotten into 40K and am playing Eldar with my friends. I mostly play with two friends who both play Space Marines, and started playing around the same time as I (3 month ago, about). While I had initial success against them, since the space marine buff, I have gone from list to list, proxying units to try them out, but have not been able to get a confident win ever since. Nowadays, at best I'll squeeze out a VP victory from having board control for a turn or two with a few units hiding out of LOS to not get wiped by the Marines' firepower and at worst lose over half my army before my second turn.

I would just like to hear some suggestions as to how I could change my list to make it slightly more competitive without just going for a Eldar flyer/vehicle list. Also some tips on dealing with SM dreadnoughts. Halving wounds means they just tank through all my firepower until it's too late :(

Some details:
My opponents play mostly Primaris, with 2-3 squads of hellblasters, 3-6 agressors,a dreadnought, intercessors and depending on the game a repulsor/eliminators/inceptors/reavers
While I did originally run wave serpents with the D-scythes inside, they would pretty much always get reduced to dust the turn they came out, sometimes even before that when my transports would get focused down, without ever killing above what they cost. Thus, I am now running them with the Vigilus Wraith Host detachment to give them a 4++ invuln save and buffing them to high heaven with the warlocks and quickening them with the spiritseer to engage turn 1.
Also, while it says I am using alaitoc/Saim-Hann, I am currently using a craftworld from the new Phoenix Rising codex

EDIT: Just realized I was paying for an extra avenger per squad, thought the 11pts for the exarch was to upgrade a regular avenger to an exarch. Oh well. Consider the list as having squads of 6 avengers.

EDIT 2: I really enjoy the eldar wraiths/aspect warriors, so if something is even semi-viable in that direction I'd like to hear your thoughts on it

The list (summary):

Battalion 1
HQ:
1x Autarch
1x Spiritseer
1x Farseer

Troops:
3x dire avengers(5) with exarch

Elites: 10x Wraithguard

Fast Attack:
1x Shining Spears with exarch (7)

Battalion 2:
HQ:
2x Warlock
Troops:
3x Dire Avengers(5) with exarch


The Full list with Battlescribe:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [36 PL, 557pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Saim-Hann: Wild Host

+ HQ +

Warlock [2 PL, 55pts]: 1. Conceal/Reveal, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

Warlock [2 PL, 55pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [6 PL, 69pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Dire Avengers [6 PL, 69pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Dire Avengers [6 PL, 69pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

+ Fast Attack +

Shining Spears [14 PL, 240pts]
. 6x Shining Spear: 6x Laser Lance, 6x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Star Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [52 PL, 936pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ HQ +

Autarch with Swooping Hawk Wings [5 PL, 124pts]: 5: Mark of the Incomparable Hunter, Craftworlds Warlord, Forceshield, Fusion Pistol, Mandiblasters (Autarch), Power sword, Reaper Launcher
. Shimmerplume of Achillrial

Farseer [6 PL, 110pts]: 2. Doom, 4. Executioner, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

Spiritseer [3 PL, 65pts]: 5. Quicken/Restrain, Shuriken Pistol

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [6 PL, 69pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Dire Avengers [6 PL, 69pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

Dire Avengers [6 PL, 69pts]
. 5x Dire Avenger: 5x Avenger Shuriken Catapult
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults

+ Elites +

Wraithguard [20 PL, 430pts]: D-scythe, 10x Wraithguard

++ Total: [88 PL, 1,493pts] ++

Created with Battlescribe

Hey dude. This is bit of a hail mary:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [25 PL, 8CP, 500pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [8CP] +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Craftworld Attribute: Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned

Detachment CP [5CP]

+ HQ [10 PL, 190pts] +

Eldrad Ulthran [8 PL, 135pts]: 1. Guide, 2. Doom, 4. Executioner

Warlock [2 PL, 55pts]: Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops [15 PL, 310pts] +

Guardian Defenders [9 PL, 190pts]: 20x Guardian Defender [160pts]
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform [15pts]: Shuriken Cannon [10pts]
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform [15pts]: Shuriken Cannon [10pts]

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger [60pts]

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger [60pts]

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [28 PL, 463pts] ++

+ HQ [4 PL, 99pts] +

Autarch [4 PL, 99pts]: 5: Mark of the Incomparable Hunter, Banshee Mask, Craftworlds Warlord, Forceshield [6pts], Reaper Launcher [22pts], Star Glaive [6pts]

+ Heavy Support [24 PL, 364pts] +

Night Spinner [8 PL, 120pts]: Shuriken Cannon [10pts]

Night Spinner [8 PL, 122pts]: Spirit Stones [10pts], Twin Shuriken Catapult [2pts]

Night Spinner [8 PL, 122pts]: Spirit Stones [10pts], Twin Shuriken Catapult [2pts]

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [24 PL, 537pts] ++

+ HQ [4 PL, 99pts] +

Autarch [4 PL, 99pts]: Banshee Mask, Forceshield [6pts], Reaper Launcher [22pts], Star Glaive [6pts]

+ Fast Attack [8 PL, 124pts] +

Vypers [4 PL, 62pts]
. Vyper [4 PL, 62pts]: Bright Lance [20pts], Twin Shuriken Catapult [2pts]

Vypers [4 PL, 62pts]
. Vyper [4 PL, 62pts]: Bright Lance [20pts], Twin Shuriken Catapult [2pts]

+ Heavy Support [12 PL, 314pts] +

Dark Reapers [4 PL, 107pts]
. 2x Dark Reaper [68pts]: 2x Reaper Launcher [44pts]
. Dark Reaper Exarch [39pts]: Tempest Launcher [27pts]

Dark Reapers [4 PL, 107pts]
. 2x Dark Reaper [68pts]: 2x Reaper Launcher [44pts]
. Dark Reaper Exarch [39pts]: Tempest Launcher [27pts]

Dark Reapers [4 PL, 100pts]
. 2x Dark Reaper [68pts]: 2x Reaper Launcher [44pts]
. Dark Reaper Exarch [32pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher [20pts]

++ Total: [77 PL, 8CP, 1,500pts] ++

The first spearhead to run the always in cover/ignore cover traits.

The second spearhead to run the salamnders trait / ignores cover.

The idea is to deploy as far bas as possible. And hide everything out of LOS. Ideally you want to be going second in this scenario.
T1. Blast away into the hellblasters/intercessors/infiltrators. With all the re-rolls and reaper launchers/BL you should be able to bring down most of his primaris.

The AML was taken for the MW strat on repulsor as well as potential D6 dmg vs Dread and to save points.


No idea if this would work, but all the tempest and night spinners should make short work of the primaris infantry.
Maybe drop the vypers for a WD and jig some points around.

T2 you want to drop the guardians and set up screen+ protect. Doom and discipline of black guardians his biggest threat. He will have to respond

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not sure if you have the models to run this,

Our stuff is really really expensive so 1500 points is a very tight squeeze for a dual battalion.

Alternatively I also came up with this idea for running the wraith guard.

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [31 PL, 7CP, 533pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot [7CP] +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Craftworld Attribute: Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned

Detachment CP [5CP]

Specialist Detachment [-1CP]: Wraith Host [-1CP]

+ HQ [10 PL, 190pts] +

Eldrad Ulthran [8 PL, 135pts]: 1. Guide, 2. Doom, 3. Fortune

Warlock [2 PL, 55pts]: Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops [12 PL, 186pts] +

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger [60pts]

Rangers [3 PL, 60pts]: 5x Ranger [60pts]

Storm Guardians [6 PL, 66pts]
. 11x Storm Guardian - Aeldari Blade [66pts]

+ Dedicated Transport [9 PL, 157pts] +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 157pts]: Shuriken Cannon [10pts], Star Engines [10pts], Twin Shuriken Cannon [17pts]

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [51 PL, 964pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ HQ [7 PL, 164pts] +

Autarch [4 PL, 99pts]: 5: Mark of the Incomparable Hunter, Banshee Mask, Craftworlds Warlord, Forceshield [6pts], Reaper Launcher [22pts], Star Glaive [6pts]

Spiritseer [3 PL, 65pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, Shuriken Pistol
. Shiftshroud of Alanssair

+ Elites [20 PL, 342pts] +

Wraithguard [20 PL, 342pts]: Wraithcannon [135pts], 9x Wraithguard [207pts]

+ Heavy Support [24 PL, 458pts] +

Dark Reapers [4 PL, 107pts]
. 2x Dark Reaper [68pts]: 2x Reaper Launcher [44pts]
. Dark Reaper Exarch [39pts]: Tempest Launcher [27pts]

Dark Reapers [4 PL, 107pts]
. 2x Dark Reaper [68pts]: 2x Reaper Launcher [44pts]
. Dark Reaper Exarch [39pts]: Tempest Launcher [27pts]

Night Spinner [8 PL, 122pts]: Spirit Stones [10pts], Twin Shuriken Catapult [2pts]

Night Spinner [8 PL, 122pts]: Spirit Stones [10pts], Twin Shuriken Catapult [2pts]

++ Total: [82 PL, 7CP, 1,497pts] ++

Make the alitoic spirit host, DS in the guard and spirit seer together and drop spirit shield.
The second build is reliant on CP and is a bit tight due to 3 CP needed for DS and spirit shield. You're probably looking at 1 LFR, 1/2 Spirit shield, 1 celestial shield and a re-roll.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll definitely look into the dark reapers and night spinners, as they seem to be constants in your suggestions. Don't really have the models for it, but I very much appreciate the suggestion

The MSU reapers make a lto of sense with new exarch powers and new trait.

Have you looked at the Phoenix rising rules?

The Reapers exarch power - Rapid Shot:When the exarch shoots add one to the number of attacks with their ranged weapons. Means the exarch can essentialy fire his launcher three times at mult shot profile, twice at anti tank profile.

If equipped with tempest launcher he can take a power to re-roll the D6 for number of shots. These are very strong perks. Add to that the potential to ignore cover tahst 2d6 (re-rallable) LOS ignoring, Cover ignoring Str4 -1 shots. Those intercessors/hellblasters will atke a pounding.

I would start with the fact that dire avengers aren't the most efficient option in general, and definitely not for foot slogging.
The main problem is not their mobility which is adequate, but their survivability.
Rangers keep the small squads, but can use cover.
Guardians come with more bodies for less points and come with a slew of stratagems and heavy weapons to enhance their efficiency. They seem like they keep with the feel of your list more.
I also completely concur that Dark Reapers really start pushing Footdar to greater heights.
I would also consider Fire Dragons who can Webway Strike into position.

Alternatively, Wave Serpents could make your dire avengers work by keeping them alive, reducing your drop count and delivering some solid fire support.

The Phoenix rising gules are essentially why I went for this army composition. I really liked the interaction of the Dire Avenger exarchs (in theory) with, well, themselves.

I stopped running guardians the day I webway striked a full squad of 20 guardians, shot everything into a Primaris Captain and did a single point of damage. More reasonably though, the main reason I don't really like guardians is because I only fight primaris castles, and guardians can never engage on turn 1 since the marines never need to advance. They'll just run forward and die after the marines unload 2 turns of firepower into them. 2x squads of agressors ruin any infantry's day :(
Any suggestions for weapons to run with the platform?

Furthermore, I find eldar to be extremely CP hungry (at least the way I'm running them, basically requiring 2cps per turn to give my wraiths their 4++), and guardians are a lot more expensive to run a double battalion with.

I'll try playing with Dark Reapers, see what they can do for me.

Finally, what are y'alls opinions on the strength of footdar? I understand you'll never win a tournament with that list, but well built/played, could they be at least semi-viable? What craftworld/custom craftworld would be best running with them? Ideas for a potential list? Things to include/stay away from?

I'm really grateful for the help, thanks a bunch

1500 points is a very tight squeeze for double battalion.. you are right they are very CP hungary. Thats why id give up on the idea of running the specialist detatchement. If you are set on wraiths id put some wraiths blades in an alitoic WS or two with vectored engines and bomb it directly at his castle. Hes not going to like that.

If you are up against primaris night spinners and tempest launchers/reapers s5 -2 2dmg shots are your best friends. Can either MSU or big blob it and use guide + fire and fade.

A couple night spinners amd a squad of reapers in the backfield out of los will do wonders for you. If you send your blades forward he should in theory be baited into shooting the -2/3 serpents and keep your back line unmolested. If you het the long deployment map none of his stuff will be in range and you can happily blast away.

Sugesting rangers as well. Guardians are only really good in a big blob of 20 with SC. At 1500 points will be hard.. so thats why i think you are better of going for the minimum rangers battalion and invest into elite/mech stuff.

Your suggestions sound pretty good, I'll drop the idea of having a large frontline of troops.

However, I struggle to see the use of the Night Spinners. While they do have 2 damage a shot and the potential for -4Ap, they'll only on average wound around 3 times, and if the marines are in cover and you don't roll 6s, they'll shrug it off with a 2+ save...

Also, for wraithblades would you say to go for ghostswords or ghostaxr/shield?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any ideas for which HQs I should run? Most of the named characters, save perhaps Eldrad, seem very overcosted. Perhaps Eldar/Footdar (except flyers :p) will get some point changes next chapter approved?

DeFlavigny wrote:
Your suggestions sound pretty good, I'll drop the idea of having a large frontline of troops.

However, I struggle to see the use of the Night Spinners. While they do have 2 damage a shot and the potential for -4Ap, they'll only on average wound around 3 times, and if the marines are in cover and you don't roll 6s, they'll shrug it off with a 2+ save...

Also, for wraithblades would you say to go for ghostswords or ghostaxr/shield?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Any ideas for which HQs I should run? Most of the named characters, save perhaps Eldrad, seem very overcosted. Perhaps Eldar/Footdar (except flyers :p) will get some point changes next chapter approved?

That's why I'd put them in a spear head with ignore cover trait along with the reapers and the salamander trait. Or just do 2 spearheads and have the second as dedicated spinners with always in cover/ignore cover. 3 spinners clock in at just over 330 points..Have an autarch with reaper launcher baby sit them and a squad of reapers in your backfield rerolling all those 1s. That's 6 D6 Str7 Dmg 2 LOS ignoring shots... from the spinners. Every 6 to wound is a dead primaris. If you focus fire with doom that's a lot of rends.. Will struggle against the repulsor though without enough reaper support. If he does not run repulsor to hide the hellblasters/agressors in you should be able to clear them.

Ghost swords out of WS with spirit seer are my favourite. Cheap and cheerful.

The issue with eldrad is that he cannot board alitoic serpents
Hes by far the best HQ we have. I usually take him and a warlock for seer council as my core battalion. Either big guardian blob for black guardians and rangers, or all rangers. Ulthwe rangers still get -1 to hit and 6+++. Its actually not too shabby.

Apart from that you want more farseers/spirit seers for the MW output really...Sadly our named characters are far too expensive. Apart form maybe MAugan Ra as he synergises with reapers.

You end up having to invest in screening to ensure they are within smite range hence recommending WS and blades as they will screen. Suicide autarch with lance might be decent to give the reroll ones to blades and get stuck in with them could work.

Bottom line if he castles up you should out range him with reapers.

Hi all!

Thanks to your advice, I've been able to get some revenge against my primaris-playing, xeno-hating friends

The list I ended up with looks as follows. Thanks again


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [87 PL, 1,550pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ HQ +

Autarch [4 PL, 106pts]: 5: Mark of the Incomparable Hunter, Craftworlds Warlord, Forceshield, Fusion Pistol, Reaper Launcher, Star Glaive
. Shimmerplume of Achillrial

Farseer [6 PL, 110pts]: Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Rangers [6 PL, 72pts]: 6x Ranger

Rangers [6 PL, 72pts]: 6x Ranger

Rangers [6 PL, 72pts]: 6x Ranger

+ Elites +

Fire Dragons [6 PL, 120pts]
. 4x Fire Dragon: 4x Fusion Gun
. Fire Dragon Exarch: Fusion Gun

Fire Dragons [6 PL, 120pts]
. 4x Fire Dragon: 4x Fusion Gun
. Fire Dragon Exarch: Fusion Gun

+ Heavy Support +

Dark Reapers [13 PL, 340pts]
. 9x Dark Reaper: 9x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Reaper Launcher

Night Spinner [8 PL, 112pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult

Night Spinner [8 PL, 112pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 157pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 157pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines

++ Total: [87 PL, 1,550pts] ++

Created with Battlescribe

DeFlavigny wrote:
Hi all!

Thanks to your advice, I've been able to get some revenge against my primaris-playing, xeno-hating friends

The list I ended up with looks as follows. Thanks again


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [87 PL, 1,550pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Craftworld Attribute: Alaitoc: Fieldcraft

+ HQ +

Autarch [4 PL, 106pts]: 5: Mark of the Incomparable Hunter, Craftworlds Warlord, Forceshield, Fusion Pistol, Reaper Launcher, Star Glaive
. Shimmerplume of Achillrial

Farseer [6 PL, 110pts]: Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Rangers [6 PL, 72pts]: 6x Ranger

Rangers [6 PL, 72pts]: 6x Ranger

Rangers [6 PL, 72pts]: 6x Ranger

+ Elites +

Fire Dragons [6 PL, 120pts]
. 4x Fire Dragon: 4x Fusion Gun
. Fire Dragon Exarch: Fusion Gun

Fire Dragons [6 PL, 120pts]
. 4x Fire Dragon: 4x Fusion Gun
. Fire Dragon Exarch: Fusion Gun

+ Heavy Support +

Dark Reapers [13 PL, 340pts]
. 9x Dark Reaper: 9x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Reaper Launcher

Night Spinner [8 PL, 112pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult

Night Spinner [8 PL, 112pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 157pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 157pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Vectored Engines

++ Total: [87 PL, 1,550pts] ++

Created with Battlescribe

Wohoooo!! You show em imperial scum whats what and whose boss!!! muahhaa

Contrats man. Its tailored cheese vs primaris but feel no shame! You did what you had to.. Night spinenrs and Fire & fade reapers must have shredded his intercessors aye ? .
Interesting choice on the fire dragons. Wouldn't have been my pick but I can see it working in a lower points game. .