Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/10/23 17:10:52
Subject: Just making sure I undertand the mess of Custom traits
|
 |
Powerful Phoenix Lord
|
Lets say I have a list with the following: Battalion___<Expert Crafters & Hail of Doom> 2 Autarchs 20 Gaurdians 2x 5 Rangers Shining Spears Spearhead___<Expert Crafters & Masters of Concealment> Farseer & Warlock 3 Fire Prisms Flyers____<Alaitoc> 2 Hemlocks and 1 CHE --------------------------------------------------------------------- So because the Battalion and Spearhead use different custom traits, they aren't the same CW and thus the Autarchs will only buff units in the Battalion But the Farseer & Warlocks powers buff ASURYANI units, so all good there no matter the detachment Per FAQ, I cannot decided to name both custom detachments the same CW to get around this, correct? i.e. I cannot use <Galef's Raiders> as the Craftworld for both the Speadhead and Battalion so that I can have different traits, but still allows the Autarchs and other <Craftworld> specific rules apply to both at the same time. This is a mess BTW -
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/23 17:12:47
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/10/23 17:35:14
Subject: Just making sure I undertand the mess of Custom traits
|
 |
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
|
How is it a mess? You’re choosing separate rules so why should you get overlaps? You’re free to choose the same abilities for two detachments if you wanted character synergy... if not, you made your decision...
|
Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/10/23 18:02:16
Subject: Just making sure I undertand the mess of Custom traits
|
 |
Powerful Phoenix Lord
|
JohnnyHell wrote:How is it a mess? You’re choosing separate rules so why should you get overlaps? You’re free to choose the same abilities for two detachments if you wanted character synergy... if not, you made your decision...
It's not a mess in that it's hard to understand (although it kind of is that), it's more a mess in that now I'll have to keep track of what models have which traits, which rules care about ASURYANI vs CRAFTWORLD and so forth.
Can I keep track of it? Sure. Can my opponent? that's another story. I've played Eldar long enough to know that opponents already think we're cheating. This just presents too much opportunity to that to appear true.
I can choose not to do it, but I wouldn't get the most out of the rules we've been given.
-
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/10/23 18:15:08
Subject: Just making sure I undertand the mess of Custom traits
|
 |
Norn Queen
|
You can't give the same <CRAFTWORLD> keyword different traits, to "prevent" "abuse" of auras buffing units with different detachment traits.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/10/23 18:51:44
Subject: Just making sure I undertand the mess of Custom traits
|
 |
Powerful Phoenix Lord
|
BaconCatBug wrote:You can't give the same <CRAFTWORLD> keyword different traits, to "prevent" "abuse" of auras buffing units with different detachment traits.
Agreed. Just checking.
It makes choosing traits somewhat difficult and will certainly promote lists that mix-n-match specific units in certain detachment to min-mx certain traits.
It's gonna be "fun" to keep track of
-
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/10/23 18:55:05
Subject: Just making sure I undertand the mess of Custom traits
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Best solution is different colour schemes for different forces. However, a quick work around is to purchase some colorized rubber bands from a dollar store. Put all of one force with one color rubber band, and all of another with a different one. Bam! You know which unit/model now belongs to which Craftworld!
|
Galef wrote:If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/10/23 19:17:16
Subject: Just making sure I undertand the mess of Custom traits
|
 |
Powerful Phoenix Lord
|
Yarium wrote:Best solution is different colour schemes for different forces. However, a quick work around is to purchase some colorized rubber bands from a dollar store. Put all of one force with one color rubber band, and all of another with a different one. Bam! You know which unit/model now belongs to which Craftworld!
But you shouldn't have to do this. My concern isn't that I won't be able to keep track of what's what (I have tons of conversion, so I'm used to that). My main concern is that by mixing up traits in separate detachments it will not appear that I am being courteous to my opponent, or even appear to be trying to cheat them.
It's a situation that shouldn't exist, but oh well
-
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/10/23 19:19:19
Subject: Just making sure I undertand the mess of Custom traits
|
 |
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
|
Galef wrote: Yarium wrote:Best solution is different colour schemes for different forces. However, a quick work around is to purchase some colorized rubber bands from a dollar store. Put all of one force with one color rubber band, and all of another with a different one. Bam! You know which unit/model now belongs to which Craftworld!
But you shouldn't have to do this. My concern isn't that I won't be able to keep track of what's what (I have tons of conversion, so I'm used to that). My main concern is that by mixing up traits in separate detachments it will not appear that I am being courteous to my opponent, or even appear to be trying to cheat them.
It's a situation that shouldn't exist, but oh well
-
It's not about you not remembering - it's your opponent. The rubber band method would work for this.
|
They/them
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/10/23 19:23:42
Subject: Just making sure I undertand the mess of Custom traits
|
 |
Horrific Hive Tyrant
|
Galef wrote: Yarium wrote:Best solution is different colour schemes for different forces. However, a quick work around is to purchase some colorized rubber bands from a dollar store. Put all of one force with one color rubber band, and all of another with a different one. Bam! You know which unit/model now belongs to which Craftworld!
But you shouldn't have to do this. My concern isn't that I won't be able to keep track of what's what (I have tons of conversion, so I'm used to that). My main concern is that by mixing up traits in separate detachments it will not appear that I am being courteous to my opponent, or even appear to be trying to cheat them.
It's a situation that shouldn't exist, but oh well
-
The only other option frankly would be to not have different traits for different sub factions. Which would maybe be a good thing, but that's a different discussion.
How exactly should it work, in a way you can have different abilities on different units but you wouldn't need some way of visually differentiating them?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/10/23 19:41:04
Subject: Just making sure I undertand the mess of Custom traits
|
 |
Courageous Space Marine Captain
|
Galef wrote: Yarium wrote:Best solution is different colour schemes for different forces. However, a quick work around is to purchase some colorized rubber bands from a dollar store. Put all of one force with one color rubber band, and all of another with a different one. Bam! You know which unit/model now belongs to which Craftworld!
But you shouldn't have to do this. My concern isn't that I won't be able to keep track of what's what (I have tons of conversion, so I'm used to that). My main concern is that by mixing up traits in separate detachments it will not appear that I am being courteous to my opponent, or even appear to be trying to cheat them.
It's a situation that shouldn't exist, but oh well
-
Then don't put different subfactions in the same army.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/10/23 20:10:26
Subject: Just making sure I undertand the mess of Custom traits
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Galef wrote: Yarium wrote:Best solution is different colour schemes for different forces. However, a quick work around is to purchase some colorized rubber bands from a dollar store. Put all of one force with one color rubber band, and all of another with a different one. Bam! You know which unit/model now belongs to which Craftworld!
But you shouldn't have to do this. My concern isn't that I won't be able to keep track of what's what (I have tons of conversion, so I'm used to that). My main concern is that by mixing up traits in separate detachments it will not appear that I am being courteous to my opponent, or even appear to be trying to cheat them.
It's a situation that shouldn't exist, but oh well
-
I'm going to direct you to your own sage advice that I put in my sig my friend. Yeah, it's a pill to swallow, but you gotta do it if you're going to try and maximize things like this.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/23 20:10:49
Galef wrote:If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/10/24 01:11:26
Subject: Just making sure I undertand the mess of Custom traits
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
For tournies, you need to clearly mark what detachments are different. Having models with the same colour scheme but different rules would likely be in violation of TO rules and you should check with them beforehand.
If you are wanting to game the system, you should make an effort to make it easier for everyone, not just yourself.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/10/24 06:02:59
Subject: Just making sure I undertand the mess of Custom traits
|
 |
Fully-charged Electropriest
|
Galef wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:How is it a mess? You’re choosing separate rules so why should you get overlaps? You’re free to choose the same abilities for two detachments if you wanted character synergy... if not, you made your decision...
It's not a mess in that it's hard to understand (although it kind of is that), it's more a mess in that now I'll have to keep track of what models have which traits, which rules care about ASURYANI vs CRAFTWORLD and so forth.
Can I keep track of it? Sure. Can my opponent? that's another story. I've played Eldar long enough to know that opponents already think we're cheating. This just presents too much opportunity to that to appear true.
I can choose not to do it, but I wouldn't get the most out of the rules we've been given.
-
I honestly find people using different detachments with different traits to be very annoying but it is part of the game. As you said you just have to make a choice; maximum efficiency or making things simple for your opponent. If you think this is too much of an issue you should message GW about it.
Galef wrote: Yarium wrote:Best solution is different colour schemes for different forces. However, a quick work around is to purchase some colorized rubber bands from a dollar store. Put all of one force with one color rubber band, and all of another with a different one. Bam! You know which unit/model now belongs to which Craftworld!
But you shouldn't have to do this. My concern isn't that I won't be able to keep track of what's what (I have tons of conversion, so I'm used to that). My main concern is that by mixing up traits in separate detachments it will not appear that I am being courteous to my opponent, or even appear to be trying to cheat them.
It's a situation that shouldn't exist, but oh well
-
One guy I know has put a colored mark on the bases to distinguish between detachments (the bases were bare black so it would not work on most finished models). It really helps.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/10/24 09:21:16
Subject: Re:Just making sure I undertand the mess of Custom traits
|
 |
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot
|
It seems to me, the issue here is you are concerned about your opponent keeping track easily as well as you as to not feel being taken advantage.
have a visual indicator of some sort. Maybe a different base style, or base rim colour, or colour on the model. But something that says, these guys belong to faction x and these guys belong to faction Y.
If I wanna play blood angels and dark angels. but paint them all blue, it's not gunna fly is it?
|
5500
2500 |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/10/24 11:16:23
Subject: Re:Just making sure I undertand the mess of Custom traits
|
 |
Norn Queen
|
SeanDavid1991 wrote:If I wanna play blood angels and dark angels. but paint them all blue, it's not gunna fly is it?
It absolutely will fly because that is perfectly legal ruleswise. Any restriction on paint is a house rule and nothing more. While you do need to have each unit in their own detachment and differentiate between each unit for the purposes of the rules, there is no requirement to make your differing detachments look different.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/10/24 14:10:43
Subject: Re:Just making sure I undertand the mess of Custom traits
|
 |
Powerful Phoenix Lord
|
BaconCatBug wrote: SeanDavid1991 wrote:If I wanna play blood angels and dark angels. but paint them all blue, it's not gunna fly is it?
It absolutely will fly because that is perfectly legal ruleswise. Any restriction on paint is a house rule and nothing more. While you do need to have each unit in their own detachment and differentiate between each unit for the purposes of the rules, there is no requirement to make your differing detachments look different.
Indeed the paint scheme doesn't matter.
And the more I think about custom traits, the more I think it doesn't even matter if you "name" them. I.e, I intend to have 3 detachments all with Expert Crafters to unify the army, but each detachment have a different second trait (which would act as the <Craftworld& gt such as Hail of Doom for my Battlion and Masters of Concealment for my Spearhead.
Since I won't have any duplicate units in different detachments (i.e. all similar units will be in the same single detachment and clearly listing in my roster) I am starting to feel more at ease that no extra effort needs to be done to adequately should what unit has which trait.
-
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/10/26 00:34:13
Subject: Just making sure I undertand the mess of Custom traits
|
 |
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
|
My advice would be to ensure the Craftworld Attributes are printed clearly and prominently on your army list. If an opponent tries to accuse you of cheating, refer them to the printed documentation.
As far as <CRAFTWORLD> vs ASURYANI buffs... it's quite straight-forward. I have been playing primarily Chaos soup in 8th edition, at tournaments and pick-up games. A common thread is psychic powers (Warptime, in particular) which can target any HERETIC ASTARTES unit (Mortarion, in particular). I have never had an opponent accuse me of foul play, or even be confused by the interaction of a Chaos Space Marine or Thousand Son casting psychic powers on a Death Guard model, even if they cannot otherwise benefit from one another's buffs.
|
Triggerbaby wrote:In summary, here's your lunch and ask Miss Creaver if she has aloe lotion because I have taken you to school and you have been burned.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:I too can prove pretty much any assertion I please if I don't count all the evidence that contradicts it. |
|
 |
 |
|