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TINFOIL HAT TIME!!!

I was listening to a podcast about troll farms and it mentioned that these farms try to infiltrate as many online communities as they possibly can, doesn't matter what the community is about. It honestly got me wondering if some of the people on here aren't actually real.

There are a few posters on here that always seem to pop up with a negative comment no matter the time of day. They don't sleep. They don't seem to work. THEY'RE NOT REAL!!!

ok, time to go take my medication...

Bahoom wrote:
TINFOIL HAT TIME!!!

I was listening to a podcast about troll farms and it mentioned that these farms try to infiltrate as many online communities as they possibly can, doesn't matter what the community is about. It honestly got me wondering if some of the people on here aren't actually real.

There are a few posters on here that always seem to pop up with a negative comment no matter the time of day. They don't sleep. They don't seem to work. THEY'RE NOT REAL!!!

ok, time to go take my medication...

Hah, no, it'd be really hard for random trolls to be knowledgeable enough to start gak.

Never looked up "troll farm" before. . . .

I sometimes wondered if that's what happened to Warseer on a small scale, it got crazy over there before it went down. Or maybe it was a lack of moderation and things just got out hand.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
Speaking of expectations, I figured this would be a thread about understanding why people might still enjoy Dakka Dakka as a forum even though they might find 40k less enjoyable
What I found is condescension towards people and delusions that the only reason people are unhappy but still want social interaction must because they're misrerable people who want to make other people miserable
I guess Self Awareness is a rare skill afterall

I find it odd that someone would "enjoy" a forum where they almost exclusively gak-post in 40K. If Dakka is a broad forum with many places for different interests why are they in the forum that doesn't interest them much at all?

Surely that isn't "social interaction".

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
Speaking of expectations, I figured this would be a thread about understanding why people might still enjoy Dakka Dakka as a forum even though they might find 40k less enjoyable
What I found is condescension towards people and delusions that the only reason people are unhappy but still want social interaction must because they're miserable people who want to make other people miserable
I guess Self Awareness is a rare skill afterall

I find it odd that someone would "enjoy" a forum where they almost exclusively gak-post in 40K. If Dakka is a broad forum with many places for different interests why are they in the forum that doesn't interest them much at all?

Surely that isn't "social interaction".

Do you have friends that have jobs? I'm going to assume yes.
I'm sure then that at some point you've had one of them complain about their job. Bad clients, crappy boss, unreasonable work, or they got yelled for a dumb thing. And maybe that goes on for a while for whatever reason, and it gets obnoxious for you to hear over time.
But the reason they do that isn't to make other people miserable. If someone doesn't want to talk to other people, they usually just do that. So then there must be a reason, whether than's venting, looking for sympathy, or trying to find an understanding. Assuming that person is a "Hater" generally doesn't help and I find the Positivity Police can be just as toxic (like some of the posts here)

I also question how much of it is "exclusive". Peregrine was one of those chronic complainers people tended to hold as an example... but she also was part of the X-Wing forum and also had a few painting blogs. So, perspective is certainly a part of it.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
Speaking of expectations, I figured this would be a thread about understanding why people might still enjoy Dakka Dakka as a forum even though they might find 40k less enjoyable
What I found is condescension towards people and delusions that the only reason people are unhappy but still want social interaction must because they're miserable people who want to make other people miserable
I guess Self Awareness is a rare skill afterall

I find it odd that someone would "enjoy" a forum where they almost exclusively gak-post in 40K. If Dakka is a broad forum with many places for different interests why are they in the forum that doesn't interest them much at all?

Surely that isn't "social interaction".

Do you have friends that have jobs? I'm going to assume yes.
I'm sure then that at some point you've had one of them complain about their job. Bad clients, crappy boss, unreasonable work, or they got yelled for a dumb thing. And maybe that goes on for a while for whatever reason, and it gets obnoxious for you to hear over time.
But the reason they do that isn't to make other people miserable. If someone doesn't want to talk to other people, they usually just do that. So then there must be a reason, whether than's venting, looking for sympathy, or trying to find an understanding. Assuming that person is a "Hater" generally doesn't help and I find the Positivity Police can be just as toxic (like some of the posts here)

I also question how much of it is "exclusive". Peregrine was one of those chronic complainers people tended to hold as an example... but she also was part of the X-Wing forum and also had a few painting blogs. So, perspective is certainly a part of it.

Sure, but I feel like it's a bit different where at a job you're required to deal with the bs whereas with Warhammer it is by choice that you engage.

I don't think people who don't play should be banned from posting. Perry has some fine posts. Some others do not. It's the dedication to absolute truth of their convictions for some that gets me (i.e. They never played 8th, but it's absolutely the worst edition ever).

Experience trumps conjecture, if you will.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Sure, but I feel like it's a bit different where at a job you're required to deal with the bs whereas with Warhammer it is by choice that you engage.

I don't think people who don't play should be banned from posting. Perry has some fine posts. Some others do not. It's the dedication to absolute truth of their convictions for some that gets me (i.e. They never played 8th, but it's absolutely the worst edition ever).

Experience trumps conjecture, if you will.

Maybe. Getting a crappy job can also get advise of "just quit/ignore the problem/buck up" or accusations of exaggeration, and Warhammer 40k might be the only real options in your area if you want to play tabletop wargamming so it could feel like a job to get that tactical itch. There's probably some people here who's prefer something else. But I agree that it's not the best example, but it's an example I personally have experience with and I'm sure most others do too.

I should note that I agree, in a general sense. I have a few people on my ignore list because they take things too far. But I felt rather disgruntled with how hostile this thread ended up being immediately which seems hypocritical to the complaints leveled at the people. And I personally would prefer a negative, if at least thought provoking, post that someone going "Haters gonna hate".

EDIT: So, general question: In terms of trying to discourage someone from playing a game like 40k, If you feel like a place like Dakka is the wrong place for that what the heck is the "right" place?

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
Speaking of expectations, I figured this would be a thread about understanding why people might still enjoy Dakka Dakka as a forum even though they might find 40k less enjoyable
What I found is condescension towards people and delusions that the only reason people are unhappy but still want social interaction must because they're miserable people who want to make other people miserable
I guess Self Awareness is a rare skill afterall

I find it odd that someone would "enjoy" a forum where they almost exclusively gak-post in 40K. If Dakka is a broad forum with many places for different interests why are they in the forum that doesn't interest them much at all?

Surely that isn't "social interaction".

Do you have friends that have jobs? I'm going to assume yes.
I'm sure then that at some point you've had one of them complain about their job. Bad clients, crappy boss, unreasonable work, or they got yelled for a dumb thing. And maybe that goes on for a while for whatever reason, and it gets obnoxious for you to hear over time.
But the reason they do that isn't to make other people miserable. If someone doesn't want to talk to other people, they usually just do that. So then there must be a reason, whether than's venting, looking for sympathy, or trying to find an understanding. Assuming that person is a "Hater" generally doesn't help and I find the Positivity Police can be just as toxic (like some of the posts here)

I also question how much of it is "exclusive". Peregrine was one of those chronic complainers people tended to hold as an example... but she also was part of the X-Wing forum and also had a few painting blogs. So, perspective is certainly a part of it.

If you continue complaining about your old job I don't want to talk with you, unless it was military service or something you need to move on.

I originally came to this forum to find out what the hell was in the pipe for 40K, as GW wouldn't say, it'd just show up in shops.

I've been collecting 40K models since Rogue Trader days, and enjoy the lore (not a deep dive into novels, but the rulebook & codex information) but quit playing in 2E after a really bad experience. Somewhere around 3rd, I picked up a Tau army with the intention of getting back in, but the local group scared me off. In late 5th, my eldest son became interested in Dawn of War, and I got him interested in the tabletop version. We played occasionally, even joined an escalation league but, once again, the community drove us away. The last 40K game I played with my son was about three months ago, before he started college. We don't have enough time when he visits on weekends (we're usually playing D&D or Destiny 2), so I've just gone back to watching releases and buying for the modeling for now.

I have also been working on the side on my own version of the rules, think that's the only way I'll ever truly enjoy GW's offerings as a game.

So, a bit complex but I keep dipping my toe into the pool but find it too frigid for my tastes.

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Galas wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Interesting enough I consider that to be the strong part of 40K and maybe the only aspect that even worked in 7th: despite all its flaws if you didn't consider 40k as a tactical wargame but instead as a roleplay or an action movie it worked with heavy House ruling and homewritten scenarios. The great thing about 8th is that this still applies, but you don't have to make up your own scenarios and the game has become more tactical. Still nothing compared to Lotr, but at least you have to plan and think what you do on the table and don't just watch the fireworks.

Concerning the Community I must say I was surprised to see some of the grumpy long time dakkanouts changing their attitude at the start of 8th, showing that they didn't hate GW without reason but because 7th really sucked for them. Some since have returned to being grumpy, others seem to be still grateful that 7th died.

That once again leads to the question of why we should do the jobs of the designers?

I don't know. I do mods for the games I enjoy, as a hobby, so they catter even more to my tastes. And I love to play with mods other people does.

Were those games playable before the mods is the question. Were they filled with bugs and everything imbalanced before your mods?

The answer is going to be "not really". Ergo, why should we do the job of the designers?

not a Skyrim fan I'm guessing?

in terms of 8th edition I wouldn't say you have to do the job of the designers anymore.
You think terrain base rules suck? - take Cities of Death rules
You find Eternal war boring? - Play Maelstrom, or the Vigilus campaign, or urban warfare, or take the Open War card deck
Space Marines appear too strong? - play an attacker/ defender scenario with unequal points values, or let the SM player roll for warlord traits and psychic powers instead of choosing them

They gave you a lot to play with. I admit the stuff is all over the place and imo all missions that have been released in 1 year should be reprinted in the respective CA like a catalogue, so you don't have to look up 3 different books for a mission.

They gave you a lot to play with. I admit the stuff is all over the place and imo all missions that have been released in 1 year should be reprinted in the respective CA like a catalogue, so you don't have to look up 3 different books for a mission.

But most of the stuff isn't matched played, and the rest falls under the no thank you to armies that make my army worse, so you can have fun. Double that if their army work just fine under normal match played rules. People interest in other people fun stops at their own wallet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Karol wrote:
What does toxic mean, when it doesnt describes a non plant or chemical?

Figuratively? Caustic. Hostile. Disruptive. Destructive. Causes more harm than good. Pretty much the same thing as when it describes a plant or chemical, but affecting human interaction instead of bodily function.

Thanks. It is a rather large spectrum it seems.

Did some cleaning, removed offending and OT posts. Kindly stay on topic and stick to Rule #1.

Karol wrote:

They gave you a lot to play with. I admit the stuff is all over the place and imo all missions that have been released in 1 year should be reprinted in the respective CA like a catalogue, so you don't have to look up 3 different books for a mission.

But most of the stuff isn't matched played, and the rest falls under the no thank you to armies that make my army worse, so you can have fun. Double that if their army work just fine under normal match played rules. People interest in other people fun stops at their own wallet.

Well, if you choose to stick only to one narrow way of playing 40K I don't think that's GWs fault. In every WD and many Community articles they encourage you to play however you like and mix between different ways to play (like narrative with points, for example).
And I can't agree on the second part of your vote and I'm not even sure if I get it right. How does having fun with your opponent have anything to do with money (apart from buying minis, of course)? I think it just shows that the community you're in seems very focussed on Win at all costs, but I can't imagine how that even works for a whole gaming group.

don't play 40k but being one of the chief cat herders for my local club skim reading dakka keeps me up to date enough for 40k and a couple of other games means I can at least talk to folks about their games

also testing the faith of the geedubs followers is sort of fun, although don't think i've upset anyone in years

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

Karol wrote:

They gave you a lot to play with. I admit the stuff is all over the place and imo all missions that have been released in 1 year should be reprinted in the respective CA like a catalogue, so you don't have to look up 3 different books for a mission.

But most of the stuff isn't matched played, and the rest falls under the no thank you to armies that make my army worse, so you can have fun. Double that if their army work just fine under normal match played rules. People interest in other people fun stops at their own wallet.

Well, if you choose to stick only to one narrow way of playing 40K I don't think that's GWs fault. In every WD and many Community articles they encourage you to play however you like and mix between different ways to play (like narrative with points, for example).
And I can't agree on the second part of your vote and I'm not even sure if I get it right. How does having fun with your opponent have anything to do with money (apart from buying minis, of course)? I think it just shows that the community you're in seems very focussed on Win at all costs, but I can't imagine how that even works for a whole gaming group.

The problem there is the culture of the community. I personally would love to play random homebrewed missions with mixed point totals, the open war cards, whatever. However, my local store is pretty much strictly 2000pt matched play ITC pick up games. It's very difficult to plan anything more complex than that without a lot of extra pre-planning and logistical work and the person may bail on you in the end because real life gets in the way. Back before I moved, I had a legit group of friends that all played and we regularly messed around with games like this. but I moved, and now I'm at the mercy of a store community I haven't been able to mesh with yet. I haven't played in like 8 months now due to this.

I haven't played since 8th Ed dropped.

Initially due to lack of time, but now due to lack of interest and not knowing which books/FAQs etc I need to run my army. I'm sick of buying books and packs of datacards that are obsolete before I finish reading them.

I still have mountains of grey plastic, and I still paint when I am in the mood. So, painting is the only aspect of the hobby I indulge in these days.

Why I am still here?

DakkaDakka is the main English speaking Forum left, so it is my main source of News also for anything other than 40k.

And if one is already here you can always have an eye on 40k just to see what is up at the moment.

and of course, joining discussions specially about topics that are as old as 40k itself and happen each edition at a specific point.

I don't see 40k ever getting better in a way as GW even messed up a "re-boot" after they wrote themselves in a corner at the end of 7th.

Instead of declaring that GW has messed up every edition since 2nd, what if you all just finally came to terms with the fact that your vision for the game and GW's are different.

At the end of the day, they've always said they're casual players not competitive. The game is about having fun with your mates, not net-listing a tournament.

It's a hobby and not a sport.

 Sentineil wrote:
Instead of declaring that GW has messed up every edition since 2nd, what if you all just finally came to terms with the fact that your vision for the game and GW's are different.

I'm sure that plenty of people have long ago come to terms with the fact that GW isn't about meeting their specific vision of the game.

That doesn't in any way excuse the mechanical brokenness of the rules system though; Nor the imbalance which is bad for everyone - competitive and casual; The arbitrary removal of unit/wargear options; The imbalance between faction support; The bloat in the number of rules sources required over the lifetime of an edition cycle; The price gouging; the anti-customer practices; etc. etc.

balmong7 wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

Karol wrote:

They gave you a lot to play with. I admit the stuff is all over the place and imo all missions that have been released in 1 year should be reprinted in the respective CA like a catalogue, so you don't have to look up 3 different books for a mission.

But most of the stuff isn't matched played, and the rest falls under the no thank you to armies that make my army worse, so you can have fun. Double that if their army work just fine under normal match played rules. People interest in other people fun stops at their own wallet.

Well, if you choose to stick only to one narrow way of playing 40K I don't think that's GWs fault. In every WD and many Community articles they encourage you to play however you like and mix between different ways to play (like narrative with points, for example).
And I can't agree on the second part of your vote and I'm not even sure if I get it right. How does having fun with your opponent have anything to do with money (apart from buying minis, of course)? I think it just shows that the community you're in seems very focussed on Win at all costs, but I can't imagine how that even works for a whole gaming group.

The problem there is the culture of the community. I personally would love to play random homebrewed missions with mixed point totals, the open war cards, whatever. However, my local store is pretty much strictly 2000pt matched play ITC pick up games. It's very difficult to plan anything more complex than that without a lot of extra pre-planning and logistical work and the person may bail on you in the end because real life gets in the way. Back before I moved, I had a legit group of friends that all played and we regularly messed around with games like this. but I moved, and now I'm at the mercy of a store community I haven't been able to mesh with yet. I haven't played in like 8 months now due to this.

If that's the case I wonder what GW is even supposed to do. They release refined terrain rules, but people on this board will tell you "nobody plays that way". They release a mere suggestion for tournament play ("rule of 3)" but some people treat it as if that was a rule for all ways to play. Seems arbitrary to me. Same with ITC house rules, that seem to be widely accepted in the USA (and hardly known in europe). If a community can accept ITC rules, it's just as easy to say: Today we're playing Cities of Death, but all matched play rules still apply.

There is a lot of "comic book guy" syndrome on these boards. It's just the case than many of the toxic complainers probably don't have much going on in their lives and like to get a reaction.

I like to keep up to date with news and rumours although I rarely post because of the aforementioned trolls. Forums are a dying thing and have actually been pleasantly surprised with Instagram and fb groups.

Zillian wrote:
I haven't played since 8th Ed dropped.

Initially due to lack of time, but now due to lack of interest and not knowing which books/FAQs etc I need to run my army. I'm sick of buying books and packs of datacards that are obsolete before I finish reading them.

I still have mountains of grey plastic, and I still paint when I am in the mood. So, painting is the only aspect of the hobby I indulge in these days.

This is still in development, but it might help.

https://insighthammer.com/ips/index.php?/kte/



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Luke_Prowler wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Sure, but I feel like it's a bit different where at a job you're required to deal with the bs whereas with Warhammer it is by choice that you engage.

I don't think people who don't play should be banned from posting. Perry has some fine posts. Some others do not. It's the dedication to absolute truth of their convictions for some that gets me (i.e. They never played 8th, but it's absolutely the worst edition ever).

Experience trumps conjecture, if you will.

Maybe. Getting a crappy job can also get advise of "just quit/ignore the problem/buck up" or accusations of exaggeration, and Warhammer 40k might be the only real options in your area if you want to play tabletop wargamming so it could feel like a job to get that tactical itch. There's probably some people here who's prefer something else. But I agree that it's not the best example, but it's an example I personally have experience with and I'm sure most others do too.

I should note that I agree, in a general sense. I have a few people on my ignore list because they take things too far. But I felt rather disgruntled with how hostile this thread ended up being immediately which seems hypocritical to the complaints leveled at the people. And I personally would prefer a negative, if at least thought provoking, post that someone going "Haters gonna hate".

EDIT: So, general question: In terms of trying to discourage someone from playing a game like 40k, If you feel like a place like Dakka is the wrong place for that what the heck is the "right" place?

Extremes exist on both sides, for sure. Some, I think, exist because they're really worn out over the negativity.

People shouldn't have a goal to kill someone else's joy. Wargaming isn't a religion requiring converts to save ones "soul".

 Hollow wrote:
I rarely post because of the aforementioned trolls.

If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is...

Perhaps you should leave that proverbial glass house before chucking those stones, eh?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Denying some of the core issues of the game (IGOUGO, terrible external and internal balance) is pure ignorance though. I wouldn't let anyone start Grey Knights or Necrons because this hobby is a good amount of investment in terms of time and money.

It doesn't matter how much you like the models if your ultra optimized Grey Knights can't even land a bit of damage on a casual Eldar list of all things.

This is the very archetype of the people the OP mentioned.

Your post is sour, salty and presents your personal frustration as fact.

Not only can you beat a truly casual list with Necron or GK, their current weakness is very temporary as history has shown and the hobby is about so much more than points cost balance.

Like it or not, many people enjoy 40k, necrons and GK, and some even like an uphill battle.

Balance in 40k is definitely no worse than it has been in the past and people have been enjoying it for decades despite the shortcomings that appear to hurt you.

morgoth wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Denying some of the core issues of the game (IGOUGO, terrible external and internal balance) is pure ignorance though. I wouldn't let anyone start Grey Knights or Necrons because this hobby is a good amount of investment in terms of time and money.

It doesn't matter how much you like the models if your ultra optimized Grey Knights can't even land a bit of damage on a casual Eldar list of all things.

This is the very archetype of the people the OP mentioned.

Your post is sour, salty and presents your personal frustration as fact.

Not only can you beat a truly casual list with Necron or GK, their current weakness is very temporary as history has shown and the hobby is about so much more than points cost balance.

Like it or not, many people enjoy 40k, necrons and GK, and some even like an uphill battle.

Balance in 40k is definitely no worse than it has been in the past and people have been enjoying it for decades despite the shortcomings that appear to hurt you.

It IS fact those armies I listed are bad via basic math and Stratagems, and it IS fact GW hasn't done anything to boost them since 5th edition itself (remember when everyone said Necrons were broken with Decurion, and how quickly that changed once everyone else got their 7.5th codex?). You saying "no ur frustrated" doesn't refute my point, it means you can't counter it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

balmong7 wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

Karol wrote:

They gave you a lot to play with. I admit the stuff is all over the place and imo all missions that have been released in 1 year should be reprinted in the respective CA like a catalogue, so you don't have to look up 3 different books for a mission.

But most of the stuff isn't matched played, and the rest falls under the no thank you to armies that make my army worse, so you can have fun. Double that if their army work just fine under normal match played rules. People interest in other people fun stops at their own wallet.

Well, if you choose to stick only to one narrow way of playing 40K I don't think that's GWs fault. In every WD and many Community articles they encourage you to play however you like and mix between different ways to play (like narrative with points, for example).
And I can't agree on the second part of your vote and I'm not even sure if I get it right. How does having fun with your opponent have anything to do with money (apart from buying minis, of course)? I think it just shows that the community you're in seems very focussed on Win at all costs, but I can't imagine how that even works for a whole gaming group.

The problem there is the culture of the community. I personally would love to play random homebrewed missions with mixed point totals, the open war cards, whatever. However, my local store is pretty much strictly 2000pt matched play ITC pick up games. It's very difficult to plan anything more complex than that without a lot of extra pre-planning and logistical work and the person may bail on you in the end because real life gets in the way. Back before I moved, I had a legit group of friends that all played and we regularly messed around with games like this. but I moved, and now I'm at the mercy of a store community I haven't been able to mesh with yet. I haven't played in like 8 months now due to this.

If that's the case I wonder what GW is even supposed to do. They release refined terrain rules, but people on this board will tell you "nobody plays that way". They release a mere suggestion for tournament play ("rule of 3)" but some people treat it as if that was a rule for all ways to play. Seems arbitrary to me. Same with ITC house rules, that seem to be widely accepted in the USA (and hardly known in europe). If a community can accept ITC rules, it's just as easy to say: Today we're playing Cities of Death, but all matched play rules still apply.

The "refined" terrain rules requires more money forked over for something that should've been standard and included in the base rules. As well, nobody plays narrative. Everyone on this forum can pretend it flourishes or whatever, but walk into any store in the world and see what the people are playing. They're playing Matched, the standard for how the game has been played since 3rd.

Voss wrote:

 Brother Castor wrote:
Dakka does seem an unusual forum in terms of the amount of negativity for the hobby being discussed. It's a shame as it's not reflective of what I see in my local gaming group, and it does seem to be a minority of very vocal members.

Its only unusual in the lack of overwhelming negativity. If you think Dakka is bad, I (somewhat) envy your internet history.

I'm on a few single-marque car forums (my other hobby), and I guess the equivalent would be someone either joining to post negatively about the marque, or getting fed up with their car, selling it and hanging around to do the same. It just doesn't seem to happen. People have different preferences for particular models etc, but advice threads don't get derailed in the same way they do here.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

morgoth wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Denying some of the core issues of the game (IGOUGO, terrible external and internal balance) is pure ignorance though. I wouldn't let anyone start Grey Knights or Necrons because this hobby is a good amount of investment in terms of time and money.

It doesn't matter how much you like the models if your ultra optimized Grey Knights can't even land a bit of damage on a casual Eldar list of all things.

This is the very archetype of the people the OP mentioned.

Your post is sour, salty and presents your personal frustration as fact.

Not only can you beat a truly casual list with Necron or GK, their current weakness is very temporary as history has shown and the hobby is about so much more than points cost balance.

Like it or not, many people enjoy 40k, necrons and GK, and some even like an uphill battle.

Balance in 40k is definitely no worse than it has been in the past and people have been enjoying it for decades despite the shortcomings that appear to hurt you.

It IS fact those armies I listed are bad via basic math and Stratagems, and it IS fact GW hasn't done anything to boost them since 5th edition itself (remember when everyone said Necrons were broken with Decurion, and how quickly that changed once everyone else got their 7.5th codex?). You saying "no ur frustrated" doesn't refute my point, it means you can't counter it.

The point isn't the maths, its the attitude that you're going in with.
" I wouldn't let anyone start Grey Knights or Necrons "

This is a very direct instruction and stance to take. You're not simply informing people of the current state of the game, you are outright taking the stance that they will NOT play those armies. This is a very negative attitude and also one that takes a very commanding position. Both things people basically don't like.
Furthermore it ignores the "local" meta scene. Remembering some people only play with one or two friends in a club or might even just play at school. Not everyone is playing in the ultra competitive scene.

Plus you admit that this hobby takes large amounts of time, but you neglect to consider that in your stance. The meta chances all the time; so just as you're forcing people away from armies currently weaker that might get stronger, you likely push them toward currently strong armies that could get weaker.


Quite a few of the "salty aggression" we see from users isn't just a stance or "fact" or even opinion; it often purely comes down to the choice of language that they use to interact with.

 Overread wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

morgoth wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Denying some of the core issues of the game (IGOUGO, terrible external and internal balance) is pure ignorance though. I wouldn't let anyone start Grey Knights or Necrons because this hobby is a good amount of investment in terms of time and money.

It doesn't matter how much you like the models if your ultra optimized Grey Knights can't even land a bit of damage on a casual Eldar list of all things.

This is the very archetype of the people the OP mentioned.

Your post is sour, salty and presents your personal frustration as fact.

Not only can you beat a truly casual list with Necron or GK, their current weakness is very temporary as history has shown and the hobby is about so much more than points cost balance.

Like it or not, many people enjoy 40k, necrons and GK, and some even like an uphill battle.

Balance in 40k is definitely no worse than it has been in the past and people have been enjoying it for decades despite the shortcomings that appear to hurt you.

It IS fact those armies I listed are bad via basic math and Stratagems, and it IS fact GW hasn't done anything to boost them since 5th edition itself (remember when everyone said Necrons were broken with Decurion, and how quickly that changed once everyone else got their 7.5th codex?). You saying "no ur frustrated" doesn't refute my point, it means you can't counter it.

The point isn't the maths, its the attitude that you're going in with.
" I wouldn't let anyone start Grey Knights or Necrons "

This is a very direct instruction and stance to take. You're not simply informing people of the current state of the game, you are outright taking the stance that they will NOT play those armies. This is a very negative attitude and also one that takes a very commanding position. Both things people basically don't like.
Furthermore it ignores the "local" meta scene. Remembering some people only play with one or two friends in a club or might even just play at school. Not everyone is playing in the ultra competitive scene.

Plus you admit that this hobby takes large amounts of time, but you neglect to consider that in your stance. The meta chances all the time; so just as you're forcing people away from armies currently weaker that might get stronger, you likely push them toward currently strong armies that could get weaker.


Quite a few of the "salty aggression" we see from users isn't just a stance or "fact" or even opinion; it often purely comes down to the choice of language that they use to interact with.

Yes they shouldn't start those armies because both those armies are a waste of time if you want play a game. Streamlined Necrons and Grey Knights are still garbage against casual Eldar or Genestealer Cults or Orks or...anything else.

This thread is the equivalent of those GOP bumper stickers. "If you don't love god, guns and government, you don'l love America, so there's the door"

I like 40K for the fluff and the models, and I want it to be written well. Simple as that.

You don't have to love everything about something in order to want the best for it. I would argue that making suggestions on how to improve a game is tough love. To just stick our heads in the sand and take it for what it is does no favours to anyone.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Yes they shouldn't start those armies because both those armies are a waste of time if you want play a game. Streamlined Necrons and Grey Knights are still garbage against casual Eldar or Genestealer Cults or Orks or...anything else.

Again you're missing the point. The point isn't about your opinion on the relative performance of different armies and advising people away from weaker choices and toward stronger ones. It's the attitude and your choice of language that you're taking.

Furthermore you're overlooking that not everyone plays; not everyone plays the same and not everyone competes. Furthermore your'e overlooking the variation in meta states. Necrons and Grey Knights are weak now, however a new edition; a new set of rules; a new handbook edition etc.... could all change that situation.



You're taking a very hard, very bossy, very single approach to your viewpoint. Thrusting it upon others without consideration nor without taking into account the wider viewpoint.



Again its not your choice to advise people, its language, attitude and the overall way you present yourself.