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Some shining spears sit in cover and get a 2+ armor save....a warlock casts protect on them which adds +1 to all their saving throws.

Are they now immune to AP0 shooting?

Even if they roll a 1 when making their saving throws, then going by the wording protect turns that into a 2.

I've always assumed that a roll of a 1 is always a fail, but is protect turning that 1 into a 2 hence it's a pass?

It's one of the new craft world attributes in Phoenix rising that got me thinking about this, it allows Psykers to turn psychic test rolls of 1's into 2's.

Sure it's more 'specific' than protect (explicitly stating 1's become 2's), but then again protect is pretty specific (''add 1 to the saving throws") and this new craft world attribute is explicitly flying in the face of '1 is always a fail' e.g. In this case double 1's which would normally means perils kicks in become double 2's so they avoid perils.

Thoughts?

A natural 1 always fails. Doesn't matter on the wording, if the dice shows a 1, you have failed the save.

What it does mean is you get a 2+ save against AP -1.

As Stux says, the rules are clear that if the dice shows a 1, "irrespective" of any modifiers in either direction, the save will fail.

Also, to nitpick because it's a bugbear of mine, a 3+ save unit in cover does NOT have a 2+ save, it has a 3+ save that is attempted on a D6+1. While people often shortcut it to say "you need twos to pass", it leads to situations like this that cause confusion.

In your example, your Shining Spears still have a 3+ save and always will (iirc, I can't remember off hand if there is something weird that can actually affect the save characteristic of Shining Spears, I know there are some such effects but not if any of them apply to Shining Spears), you're simply rolling a D6+2 to attempt to pass that 3+ save. This means that against AP0 weaponry, the possible values you can roll are 1+2=3,2+2=4,...,6+2=8 but you still need a physical result of 2 or more to pass the save (since the 1 will always fail). Against AP-1 weaponry, the possible values you can roll are 1+2-1=2,2+2-1=3,...,6+2-1=7 but you still need a physical result of 2 or more to pass the save (since the 1 will always fail). As you can see, the Spears have the same chance of passing their saves vs AP0 or AP-1 weaponry, which is where the benefit of overloading positive modifiers come into play.

They have a 3+ save with a +2 total modifier. A roll of 1 is still a fail.

As stated before, the Armour Save of a unit can be increased to...almost any level, but the dice roll of '1' is still a failure. The benefit is that it keeps your save rolls better, for longer.

Say you're a Space Marine Terminator and you're in cover, your 2+ save becomes a 1+ save. Now somehow you get a stratagem or spell that increases your armour save by one...again, you now have a 0+ armour save, etc. There is no limit to your armour save. It could end up being -3+ (as weird as that looks typed).

This Space Marine Termaintor with a 0+ save would still fail on a dice roll of '1', but would have a 3+ save vs. a Lascannon (which has -3 AP), etc.

 Elbows wrote:
As stated before, the Armour Save of a unit can be increased to...almost any level, but the dice roll of '1' is still a failure. The benefit is that it keeps your save rolls better, for longer.

Say you're a Space Marine Terminator and you're in cover, your 2+ save becomes a 1+ save. Now somehow you get a stratagem or spell that increases your armour save by one...again, you now have a 0+ armour save, etc. There is no limit to your armour save. It could end up being -3+ (as weird as that looks typed).

This Space Marine Termaintor with a 0+ save would still fail on a dice roll of '1', but would have a 3+ save vs. a Lascannon (which has -3 AP), etc.

Bullgryns have a 4+.

+2 for Slab Shields.
+1 for Cover.
+1 for Take Cover!
+1 for Psychic Barrier.

They roll a 4+ on 1d6+5, or, to put in more common nomenclature, a -1+. You need Melta-grade AP to get them to save on 3s.

People colloquially use 1+ 0+ etc to quickly communicate that AP1 or AP2 weapons will leave a 2+ armour save

Because
Because 4+
+2 for Slab Shields.
+1 for Cover.
+1 for Take Cover!
+1 for Psychic Barrier.

Is quite a mouthfull and doesn't really inform anyone because you have to calculate it saying a

-1 armour save is clear and short if technically innaccurate

Or you could just say 4+ on a D6+5 and both not have a mouthful and be technically correct.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Or you could just say 4+ on a D6+5 and both not have a mouthful and be technically correct.

Except people colloquially use the other way mentioned.