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I saw a game at my store where a salamanders players used The fires of battle stratagem to make his squad of land speeders all do mortal wounds on 4+, basically winning the game on turn one with his alpha strike.



After reading the stratagem, it seems that it would only affect a single model would it not? Am i correct in thinking that he misplayed that stratagem?

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
I saw a game at my store where a salamanders players used The fires of battle stratagem to make his squad of land speeders all do mortal wounds on 4+, basically winning the game on turn one with his alpha strike.



After reading the stratagem, it seems that it would only affect a single model would it not? Am i correct in thinking that he misplayed that stratagem?

It only affects a single model.

A follow-up question. Does the strategem work for 1 weapon or for multiple flame of melta weapons?

I would say that if a model has multiple flame and/or melta weapons it would apply to all of them. When it says shoots with that weapon it seems to indicate that it's talking about that type of weapon. It didn't specify that you choose one flame or melta weapon the model has, just that the model gets the benefit when it uses those types of weapons.

 Pjats wrote:
A follow-up question. Does the strategem work for 1 weapon or for multiple flame of melta weapons?

It would apply to all relevant weapons the model has.

 doctortom wrote:
I would say that if a model has multiple flame and/or melta weapons it would apply to all of them. When it says shoots with that weapon it seems to indicate that it's talking about that type of weapon. It didn't specify that you choose one flame or melta weapon the model has, just that the model gets the benefit when it uses those types of weapons.

Agreed. It affects a model, and thus all weapons that model has.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 doctortom wrote:
I would say that if a model has multiple flame and/or melta weapons it would apply to all of them. When it says shoots with that weapon it seems to indicate that it's talking about that type of weapon. It didn't specify that you choose one flame or melta weapon the model has, just that the model gets the benefit when it uses those types of weapons.

Agreed. It affects a model, and thus all weapons that model has.

I'm not so sure. The phrasing - "that weapon" - seems to imply a single weapon rather than all of a model's weapons, as does the use of the singular in the preceding sentence. If it were all weapons I think it would need to say something like "all weapons of that type".

My interpretation is that it only affects the weapon that was chosen to shoot before you used the stratagem.

This is worded really strange.
That wepaon implies only one of the aforementioned weapons.

 Bilge Rat wrote:
My interpretation is that it only affects the weapon that was chosen to shoot before you used the stratagem.

Agreed. It only affects one flamer or melta weapon from one model. Note that the only restriction when to play the stratagem is during the shooting phase, or enemy charge phase, when a model shoots with a flamer or melta weapon. Which means its at any point of the resolve attacks step in the shooting sequence. You can use it after wound rolls, as wounds rolls are part of the resolve attacks part of the shooting sequence.

SHOOTING SEQUENCE
1. Choose unit to shoot with
2. Choose targets
3. Choose ranged weapon
4. Resolve attacks
• Make hit roll
• Make wound roll
• Enemy allocates
wound
• Enemy makes
saving throw
• Inflict damage

 p5freak wrote:

 Bilge Rat wrote:
My interpretation is that it only affects the weapon that was chosen to shoot before you used the stratagem.

Agreed. It only affects one flamer or melta weapon from one model. Note that the only restriction when to play the stratagem is during the shooting phase, or enemy charge phase, when a model shoots with a flamer or melta weapon. Which means its at any point of the resolve attacks step in the shooting sequence. You can use it after wound rolls, as wounds rolls are part of the resolve attacks part of the shooting sequence.

SHOOTING SEQUENCE
1. Choose unit to shoot with
2. Choose targets
3. Choose ranged weapon
4. Resolve attacks
• Make hit roll
• Make wound roll
• Enemy allocates
wound
• Enemy makes
saving throw
• Inflict damage

No, you can't use it whenever you like. A shooting model/unit makes/resolves attacks in step 4 of the Shooting sequence. So you have to use it in 1.-3.

my interpretation is 1 model, 1 weapon.

Its not 'whenever that models shoots a Melta or Flamer weapon'. Its 'that weapon'.

 Hanskrampf wrote:

No, you can't use it whenever you like. A shooting model/unit makes/resolves attacks in step 4 of the Shooting sequence. So you have to use it in 1.-3.

I disagree. The stratagem literally says you use it in the shooting phase, or enemy charge phase. The shooting phase, or enemy charge phase, includes the entire shooting sequence, not just step 1-3.

 p5freak wrote:

 Hanskrampf wrote:

No, you can't use it whenever you like. A shooting model/unit makes/resolves attacks in step 4 of the Shooting sequence. So you have to use it in 1.-3.

I disagree. The stratagem literally says you use it in the shooting phase, or enemy charge phase. The shooting phase, or enemy charge phase, includes the entire shooting sequence, not just step 1-3.

What about the addition of "when a SALAMANDERS model shoots with [...]"?
You choose a unit to shoot with, that unit chooses a target to shoot at, chooses weapons to shoot with, but 4. is resolving the attacks of the chosen weapon(s). The rules no longer talk about shooting or shots in point 4.

 Hanskrampf wrote:

What about the addition of "when a SALAMANDERS model shoots with [...]"?
You choose a unit to shoot with, that unit chooses a target to shoot at, chooses weapons to shoot with, but 4. is resolving the attacks of the chosen weapon(s). The rules no longer talk about shooting or shots in point 4.

When a unit shoots the entire shooting sequence is used. It doesnt say use the stratagem when a unit is choosen to shoot with, like other stratagems do.