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I've got an interesting one coming up..

Imperial Fists VS Eldar.

I'm 99.9% sure the Imperial Fists are using the Siege Breaker detachment and I suspect my opponent will take the 'Indomitable' warlord trait.

Indomitable:

"If your warlord did not move in the movement phase this turn, friendly Imperial Fists infantry units within 6" of your warlord automatically pass moral tests and receive the benefits to their saving throws for being in cover, even while they are not wholly on or within a terrain feature"

Sounds pretty straight forwards so far.... now lets look at the 'Masterful Shots' craftworld trait...... half my army is using a custom craftworld from Phoenix rising and has this trait as one of their two traits:

Masterful Shots:

"When resolving an attack made by a model with this attribute, the target does not receive the benefit of cover to it's saving throw".

I've searched and I can't find anything similar that's already been covered, and I couldn't see anything in the FAQ's.

Both rules seem to be pretty equal yet in direct conflict.

The closest FAQ I could find was a ruling about a Vindicate shooting at some rangers, the ruling was that the Vindicare's 'always hits on a 2' beat the rangers 'Pathfinders' stratagem (only hit on a 6) because the 'attackers ability takes precidence'.

So, have I missed something? Is there a FAQ for this I haven't seen?

What's you take on it?

One rule grants you a benefit. The other rule then takes the benefit away. I would say Masterful Shots trumps Indomitable because Masterful Shots is specifically removing a benefit. Take, for instance, a normal save. If you had a piece of wargear that improved your save by +1, but were struck by a weapon that does not allow you to "receive the benefit" of saves, you'd still have a 2+ save, but you're being affected by a specific rule telling you to ignore those benefits.

Similarly, your warlord didn't move, so he is being granted the benefit of being in cover. Then a rule is specifically telling you that when struck by this weapon, you do not receive that benefit, whether it comes from a ruin, a forest or a special rule granting you cover.

It doesn't matter that the Warlord has a rule granting the benefit of cover if another rules ignores the benefit of cover.

The ignore rule wins.

Awesome, thank you!

Both abilities work so there is no problem.

Indomitable grants any unit within 6" of his warlord the benefits of cover (not just the +1 save, but anything they could get from cover).

Masterful shots then ignores the +1 to save they get from having the benefits of cover.

If he sees your army is taking that trait can't he just not take that warlord trait and opt for something else? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you decide warlord traits and psychic powers after seeing the other army?

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
If he sees your army is taking that trait can't he just not take that warlord trait and opt for something else? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you decide warlord traits and psychic powers after seeing the other army?

Depends if you’re picking lists blind or deciding after seeing the army laid out. Most folk are gonna want you to include such things in your list to avoid tailoring. Between friends mileage may vary. Discuss with your opponent/TO.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
If he sees your army is taking that trait can't he just not take that warlord trait and opt for something else? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you decide warlord traits and psychic powers after seeing the other army?

Typically in a tournament setting you have to use the same list every game - even psychic powers and warlord traits.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
If he sees your army is taking that trait can't he just not take that warlord trait and opt for something else? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you decide warlord traits and psychic powers after seeing the other army?

Typically in a tournament setting you have to use the same list every game - even psychic powers and warlord traits.

In ITC you choose warlord traits, pre game stratagems, psychic powers, relics before every game.

 p5freak wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
If he sees your army is taking that trait can't he just not take that warlord trait and opt for something else? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you decide warlord traits and psychic powers after seeing the other army?

Typically in a tournament setting you have to use the same list every game - even psychic powers and warlord traits.

In ITC you choose warlord traits, pre game stratagems, psychic powers, relics before every game.

Not sure that is an ITC rule. It's really up to the TO. The majority of my tournament events you have to use the same powers and warlord traits every game. Which makes sense actaully - cause it's supposed to be the same army every game.

I was under the impression that standard rules (not ITC) were made with the intent to be able to change Warlord traits and psychic powers on the fly to intentionally be able to counter pick your opponent and vice vera. Is that not actually how it is? That's how it's been at my club for all of 8th. Are we just getting it wrong and that's not standard practice for none tournament/ITC games?

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
I was under the impression that standard rules (not ITC) were made with the intent to be able to change Warlord traits and psychic powers on the fly to intentionally be able to counter pick your opponent and vice vera. Is that not actually how it is? That's how it's been at my club for all of 8th. Are we just getting it wrong and that's not standard practice for none tournament/ITC games?

You are correct.
Some tournaments make you select them before the tournament but from my experience most do not. (ofc some local scenes can be different)