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Hi,

I'm new to Warhammer 40k and have yet to finish my army and play my first game. Yet I would like to improve my understanding of some of the aspects of close combat, trapping models and falling back from CC. Therefore I have created one quite extreme example just to illustrate some of my questions and would like to ask for advice from the experiences players:



Following situation:
Player Blue has an imperial Knight (Base size 100 x 160 mm). Player Red has a small unit of Rough Riders (60 x 35 mm) and a conscript horde. The Conscripts successfully charged the Knight and one of them is in direct basecontact.
The Rough Riders stand just outside the 1'' range, spaced <2'' apart, so in unit coherency.

Now to my questions:
1. Falling back: As the Super-Heavy Walker Rule states, the Knight can Fall back over Infantry and Swarm models. Do I understand correctly that he can not make a fall back move through the Rough riders?
2. Rotating bases during fall back: The space between the Rough riders in the lower part of the picture is >100 mm wide, so the Knights base would theoretically fit trough. Yet the base can not be rotated in a way to fit without rotating through the Rough Rider bases. Is Player Blue allowed to leave through this opening or is he really trapped?
3. Pile in move: The core rules state that you can pile in up to 3'' as long as the model ends the pile in move closer to the nearest enemy unit. As the nearest unit is the conscript in base contact, do I understand correctly that the Knight can not pile in into CC with the Rough riders?
4. Removing models in CC: Do I understand correctly, that if the conscripts suffer losses in CC, Player Red can decide to remove models at the opposite end of the unit, thus keeping the one Conscript in base contact with the Knight?
5. Can Player Red choose to keep his conscripts stretched out or is he forced to attempt to move the other Conscripts towards the Knight?
6. Can the Conscripts still make charge moves with their "other end" while being in CC with the Knight?"

Edit: sorry, looking again at the Picture I realize, that regarding question 2 the Knight could probably rotate without going through the Rough Rider bases. But the essence of the question remains: If he could only rotate through Vehicle or Cavalry bases, is he allowed to?

1. Don’t know the keyword for riders but if they do not have infantry keyword then you are correct.

2. He has to be able to rotate the Knight without going over the riders bases AND go through the conscripts AND finish he’s move more than 1” away from any enemy models. The rotation is a move.

3. If a single model unit is base to base then it cannot pile in as you have to end you’re pile in closer then before.

4. The one that’s losing its models, removes the models he/she wants to remove. So anyone in that unit.

5. You cannot move as the conscripts are in close combat. You can only pile in (closest enemy model) and consolidate (closest enemy model).

6. No.
The unit already is in close combat. Read answer 5.

If you spread out the conscripts at the bottom and takes up more space, then I think the Knight could not fall back as he will end his fall back move on or within one conscript. But sadly he will stomp them to death most likely.

Hope I got everything right as I’m no expert myself.

1. Yes.
2. Blue player cant rotate his base through enemy models which arent INFANTRY, when falling back.
3. Yes.
4. Yes.
5. Red player doesnt have to pile in, or consolidate, if you dont want to.
6. No. A unit cannot charge when it is within 1" of enemy models.

 p5freak wrote:
1. Yes.
2. Blue player cant rotate his base through enemy models which arent INFANTRY, when falling back.
3. Yes.
4. Yes.
5. Red player doesnt have to pile in, or consolidate, if you dont want to.
6. No. A unit cannot charge when it is within 1" of enemy models.

These answers are indeed correct.

Note on point 6: while they cannot charge, you can continue to pile in and consolidate even when within 1", so you'll have up to 6" of movement with any conscript not in base contact with the knight as long as they move closer to the nearest enemy model.

OK, thanks a lot, that clears up most of my points (and can be applied on more common situations).

Regarding point 6 and pile in moves: Lets say a model at the end of the conscript chain stands 6'' away from the Knight which the Conscripts are in CC with but also 2'' away from lets say a Leman Russ tank
7. As I understand he is allowed to pile in towards the Leman Russ tank because that is the closest enemy model? But he is not allowed to pile in towards the Knight if that pile in move would increase the distance to the Leman Russ? In other words: whichever direction he piles in to, he must end less than 2'' from the LR?

@

But sadly he will stomp them to death most likely.

While this was a theorethical example and I suspect you could hardly pull off this kind of positioning, if you can force a Knight to waste his time killing conscripts in CC while loosing his shooting phase that would be totally worth it. Even rolling perfectly he would need 3 fight phases to remove 30 conscripts and on average 5 (regarding his 12 WS4+ attacks)

If you choose for a model to pile in or consolidate then they can only do this towards the closest enemy model. If one conscript has a Leman Russ 2" away from him then he can pile into it (but can't attack it that turn). He can also go in a different direction but he must end up slightly closer to the Leman Russ than he was before.

I agree it is stupid that a knight would get pinned in by horses but that is how it works. Also, remember that many of the cowardly conscripts would be lost to morale

A common misconception is that you must pile in/consolidate towards the closest enemy model, but that is not true. You can move wherever you want, in any direction you want, so long as you end up an infinitesimally closer distance to the closest enemy model.

The Conscript that is 2" away from the tank and 6" away from the knight can move in any direction it wants so long as it is 1.9999999999999999999999<repeating for a very long but not infinite amount>" away from the Leman Russ Tank.

Pyroalchi wrote:
While this was a theorethical example and I suspect you could hardly pull off this kind of positioning, if you can force a Knight to waste his time killing conscripts in CC while loosing his shooting phase that would be totally worth it.

It's not as difficult as you think actually. 14" M + turbo boost on bikes give you enough movement to trap a knight base within 12" of it. The key is you need to wrap one 'pointy end' of the oval with 1 unit and charge on the opposite pointy end with another.