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Karol wrote:

Bharring 782700 10642658 wrote:

Because it's a dig at GW's poster boys getting so much support. Eldar players have had similarly OP rules, but have never had Marine-level support.

Marines have always been, and probably always will be, GW's favored faction. This dig is about how much attention they got, not just how powerful their rules are.

CWE gets more attention than, say, Nids. But not notably more than most other factions. Only Marines have had this kind of attention.

And what's this fixation with "eldar players"? Am I missing scads of threads where self-professed Eldar messiahs are proclaiming that anyone but IG/Knights/CSM/Demons/1ksons/DG/Marines/CWE/DE/Harlies/Ynnari/Custodes/etc need to "L2P"? And why only Eldar and not IoM or Chaos?

Wait so all of the outrage is about the fact that eldar models are finecast and old? Why should eldar players be entitled to big model support, when they don't make the majority of players. I am in the wrestling club, I don't dislike it. But even not smart me, knows that expecting my club to have support the same as the football class or hand ball team would be odd.

And fixation comes from the fact that I don't see necron or tyranid players go on and on how new marine rules are the most evil thing in game, and how it destroys the game.

Circular argument (again) - how do you grow the support of a particular faction when you don't support it and in fact constantly, relentlessly support a single Faction?

If you only make stuff for one massive bloated mess of a sub faction then I guess most people will buy that - right?

Does your Football class get the samer backing, funding and advertising as your wrestling club?

Speaking from personal experience, I know that I did actually stop playing the game altogether because of lack of support. Haven't played a single game of 40k in 2019, and my buying has also seen a dramatic cut aswell. Support should be for more than just Space Marines. I think everyone can agree with this. If other factions don't see updated Codexes soon (not supplements, just Codexes) then I'd consider that a substantial failure on Games Workshop's part.

Karol wrote:

Bharring 782700 10642658 wrote:

Because it's a dig at GW's poster boys getting so much support. Eldar players have had similarly OP rules, but have never had Marine-level support.

Marines have always been, and probably always will be, GW's favored faction. This dig is about how much attention they got, not just how powerful their rules are.

CWE gets more attention than, say, Nids. But not notably more than most other factions. Only Marines have had this kind of attention.

And what's this fixation with "eldar players"? Am I missing scads of threads where self-professed Eldar messiahs are proclaiming that anyone but IG/Knights/CSM/Demons/1ksons/DG/Marines/CWE/DE/Harlies/Ynnari/Custodes/etc need to "L2P"? And why only Eldar and not IoM or Chaos?

Wait so all of the outrage is about the fact that eldar models are finecast and old?

What's this obsession with Eldar? It was just a joke about how much attention Marines were getting, as opposed to *everyone else*. It wasn't about "Marines get more than Eldar". It was "Marines get more than everyone else".

Why should eldar players be entitled to big model support, when they don't make the majority of players.

Once again, you keep going off about Eldar players, like they're the root of all evil. The complaint isn't that Marines simply get more attention than everyone else. It's how *much* more attention they get. Marines are the most common army, but they're a smaller fraction of the playerbase than they are of attention they're getting.

I am in the wrestling club, I don't dislike it. But even not smart me, knows that expecting my club to have support the same as the football class or hand ball team would be odd.

I feel your pain. I remember returning from taking first in State for Academic Decathalon for our school. Lots of 1st place individual rankings in various categories on our team. What was the school abuz about? Women's fieldhocky got 3rd at regionals. Like you, I expected this. Didn't like it, but certainly understood it.

And fixation comes from the fact that I don't see necron or tyranid players go on and on how new marine rules are the most evil thing in game, and how it destroys the game.

Funny, I'm not seeing a lot of Eldar players make those specific claims, either. But I sure am seeing complaints from Necron, Tyranid, T'au, Chaos, Eldar, and IoM players.

Just where, exactly, are you seeing only Eldar players complain?

Bharring wrote:

Just where, exactly, are you seeing only Eldar players complain?

eldar are probably the big boogeyman in his (self-admitted) toxic playgroup so theyre being influenced into thinking eldars are the source of all evil.

Im tired of elves getting a bad reputation for a few overtuned units that are spammed because the rest of the codexes aren't competitive. (try playing drukhari beasts, aspect warriors or harlequin troupes competitively).

 Mr Morden wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

addnid wrote:
BA seem broken as feth to me, and they are obscuring the skies for our beloved bugs. Feth off powered plot amour boys, we want some tyranid previews !

They're far from broken. Nids should still be able to handle them given the BA's poor chapter tactic.

Yeah because there's no way gw will give ba a stratagem to skip to the assault doctrine.

Not to mention the fact that they're now "compliant " and will probably get access to most if not all the c:sm stuff.

Blood and Dark Angels are always noted as being mostly Codex Compliant in the actual Lore save for a few special bits and pieces (like pretty much every Chapter in the same Lore)

Thanks I never noticed that in the hundreds of black library books I've read.

My point is that they're getting at least some of the c:sm strategems. Plus there own, plus special issue wargear, plus everything else other chapters got in their supplements.

And it's about a 99.9% probability they'll get a stratagem to skip to the assault doctrine making their "ok" chapter doctrine better.

Think nids will get all that?

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Bharring wrote:

Just where, exactly, are you seeing only Eldar players complain?

eldar are probably the big boogeyman in his (self-admitted) toxic playgroup so theyre being influenced into thinking eldars are the source of all evil.

Im tired of elves getting a bad reputation for a few overtuned units that are spammed because the rest of the codexes aren't competitive. (try playing drukhari beasts, aspect warriors or harlequin troupes competitively).

Eldar (Craftworld) has the baggage of past editions where they had a top tier army in 6th and rolled into 7th still going strong to only then have their 7th edition codex gives them nearly universal buffs across the board (minus wave serpents), d weapons, and generally a lot of anti fun gimmicks they could pull off. 7th edition Eldar codex was probably the most tone deaf release ever by GW until they one upped themselves with Ynnari (which basiclaly stacked the cheese on top of Craftworld cheese).

 Vankraken wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Bharring wrote:

Just where, exactly, are you seeing only Eldar players complain?

eldar are probably the big boogeyman in his (self-admitted) toxic playgroup so theyre being influenced into thinking eldars are the source of all evil.

Im tired of elves getting a bad reputation for a few overtuned units that are spammed because the rest of the codexes aren't competitive. (try playing drukhari beasts, aspect warriors or harlequin troupes competitively).

Eldar (Craftworld) has the baggage of past editions where they had a top tier army in 6th and rolled into 7th still going strong to only then have their 7th edition codex gives them nearly universal buffs across the board (minus wave serpents), d weapons, and generally a lot of anti fun gimmicks they could pull off. 7th edition Eldar codex was probably the most tone deaf release ever by GW until they one upped themselves with Ynnari (which basiclaly stacked the cheese on top of Craftworld cheese).

yeah but whats the point of continually treating eldar like a boogeyman? Are they still overpowered right now? apart from airwing spam.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

addnid wrote:
BA seem broken as feth to me, and they are obscuring the skies for our beloved bugs. Feth off powered plot amour boys, we want some tyranid previews !

They're far from broken. Nids should still be able to handle them given the BA's poor chapter tactic.

Yeah because there's no way gw will give ba a stratagem to skip to the assault doctrine.

Not to mention the fact that they're now "compliant " and will probably get access to most if not all the c:sm stuff.

Blood and Dark Angels are always noted as being mostly Codex Compliant in the actual Lore save for a few special bits and pieces (like pretty much every Chapter in the same Lore)

Thanks I never noticed that in the hundreds of black library books I've read.

My point is that they're getting at least some of the c:sm strategems. Plus there own, plus special issue wargear, plus everything else other chapters got in their supplements.

And it's about a 99.9% probability they'll get a stratagem to skip to the assault doctrine making their "ok" chapter doctrine better.

Think nids will get all that?

Its clearly written in the source material that this is the case for BA and DA - I assume you are being sarcastic?

 Mr Morden wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

addnid wrote:
BA seem broken as feth to me, and they are obscuring the skies for our beloved bugs. Feth off powered plot amour boys, we want some tyranid previews !

They're far from broken. Nids should still be able to handle them given the BA's poor chapter tactic.

Yeah because there's no way gw will give ba a stratagem to skip to the assault doctrine.

Not to mention the fact that they're now "compliant " and will probably get access to most if not all the c:sm stuff.

Blood and Dark Angels are always noted as being mostly Codex Compliant in the actual Lore save for a few special bits and pieces (like pretty much every Chapter in the same Lore)

Thanks I never noticed that in the hundreds of black library books I've read.

My point is that they're getting at least some of the c:sm strategems. Plus there own, plus special issue wargear, plus everything else other chapters got in their supplements.

And it's about a 99.9% probability they'll get a stratagem to skip to the assault doctrine making their "ok" chapter doctrine better.

Think nids will get all that?

Its clearly written in the source material that this is the case for BA and DA - I assume you are being sarcastic?

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

addnid wrote:
BA seem broken as feth to me, and they are obscuring the skies for our beloved bugs. Feth off powered plot amour boys, we want some tyranid previews !

They're far from broken. Nids should still be able to handle them given the BA's poor chapter tactic.

Yeah because there's no way gw will give ba a stratagem to skip to the assault doctrine.

WS didn't get it. BT didn't get it. THIS time the dastardly scheme will work though!

Karol wrote:

Bharring 782700 10642658 wrote:

Because it's a dig at GW's poster boys getting so much support. Eldar players have had similarly OP rules, but have never had Marine-level support.

Marines have always been, and probably always will be, GW's favored faction. This dig is about how much attention they got, not just how powerful their rules are.

CWE gets more attention than, say, Nids. But not notably more than most other factions. Only Marines have had this kind of attention.

And what's this fixation with "eldar players"? Am I missing scads of threads where self-professed Eldar messiahs are proclaiming that anyone but IG/Knights/CSM/Demons/1ksons/DG/Marines/CWE/DE/Harlies/Ynnari/Custodes/etc need to "L2P"? And why only Eldar and not IoM or Chaos?

Wait so all of the outrage is about the fact that eldar models are finecast and old? Why should eldar players be entitled to big model support, when they don't make the majority of players. I am in the wrestling club, I don't dislike it. But even not smart me, knows that expecting my club to have support the same as the football class or hand ball team would be odd.

And fixation comes from the fact that I don't see necron or tyranid players go on and on how new marine rules are the most evil thing in game, and how it destroys the game.

The sentiment was refering to any non SM player in genral. But yes compare PA1 to PA2 BT supplament. We didn't get a single strategem, warlord trait or relic. Ive been using the same strategems warlord traits and relics since codex was printed... (I played around with wraith host from vigilus so thats an extra strategem I guess?). Having the same option gets boring. Having the same old ass finecast models gets boring. Having the same auto include OP unit gets boring also.

If you dont get the joke you dont get the joke.. I mean any joke that you have to explain wasn't very good... I tried lol..

Take chaos who got royaly undeniably shafted. I feel sorry for you that the only players in your area who are WAAC airwing spammers kid and you have to deal with it... Nobody likes it. Eldar players dont like it. People on the recieving end dont like it either.. Any eldar player will tell you they wish airwing spam would be curbed and other things made more viable with rules/points. Its basicaly been at least half of your army picked for you over the last 2 years unless you purpusfuly gimp yourself.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
WS didn't get it. BT didn't get it. THIS time the dastardly scheme will work though!

Yes, they did. And they can use it every round for 1 CP:

The Crusader’s Helm. Add 3” to the model’s aura abilities. Also, at the start of your Movement phase, pick a Black Templars unit with the Combat Doctrines ability within 6” of this model. Until your next Movement phase, the Assault Doctrine is active for that unit, replacing the current doctrine. This is a great way to circumvent the turn 3 restriction that prevents you from achieving your full potential with combat units.

So yes, the dastardly scheme did come to pass.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
WS didn't get it. BT didn't get it. THIS time the dastardly scheme will work though!

Yes, they did. And they can use it every round for 1 CP:

The Crusader’s Helm. Add 3” to the model’s aura abilities. Also, at the start of your Movement phase, pick a Black Templars unit with the Combat Doctrines ability within 6” of this model. Until your next Movement phase, the Assault Doctrine is active for that unit, replacing the current doctrine. This is a great way to circumvent the turn 3 restriction that prevents you from achieving your full potential with combat units.

So yes, the dastardly scheme did come to pass.

You and your facts.. and quotes... How dare ye!

 Argive wrote:
You and your facts.. and quotes... How dare ye!

What can I say? I RTFM'd.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Bharring wrote:

Just where, exactly, are you seeing only Eldar players complain?

eldar are probably the big boogeyman in his (self-admitted) toxic playgroup so theyre being influenced into thinking eldars are the source of all evil.

Im tired of elves getting a bad reputation for a few overtuned units that are spammed because the rest of the codexes aren't competitive. (try playing drukhari beasts, aspect warriors or harlequin troupes competitively).

Eldar (Craftworld) has the baggage of past editions where they had a top tier army in 6th and rolled into 7th still going strong to only then have their 7th edition codex gives them nearly universal buffs across the board (minus wave serpents), d weapons, and generally a lot of anti fun gimmicks they could pull off. 7th edition Eldar codex was probably the most tone deaf release ever by GW until they one upped themselves with Ynnari (which basiclaly stacked the cheese on top of Craftworld cheese).

yeah but whats the point of continually treating eldar like a boogeyman? Are they still overpowered right now? apart from airwing spam.

I dunno but their history of being extremely powerful and often times anti fun to play against makes others who experienced that more critical of Eldar. Same set of baggage applies to the Tau. That said Eldar rolled into 8th on fairly even ground but with their codex they somewhat lead the pack with the whole minus to hit stacking thing which again is one of those "not fun to play against" playstyles.

I'm just pointing out some of the history at play and why people might not view Eldar in the best light.

 Argive wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
WS didn't get it. BT didn't get it. THIS time the dastardly scheme will work though!

Yes, they did. And they can use it every round for 1 CP:

The Crusader’s Helm. Add 3” to the model’s aura abilities. Also, at the start of your Movement phase, pick a Black Templars unit with the Combat Doctrines ability within 6” of this model. Until your next Movement phase, the Assault Doctrine is active for that unit, replacing the current doctrine. This is a great way to circumvent the turn 3 restriction that prevents you from achieving your full potential with combat units.

So yes, the dastardly scheme did come to pass.

You and your facts.. and quotes... How dare ye!

Yeah one unit getting through the arbitrary restrictions is amazing right?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
WS didn't get it. BT didn't get it. THIS time the dastardly scheme will work though!

Yes, they did. And they can use it every round for 1 CP:

The Crusader’s Helm. Add 3” to the model’s aura abilities. Also, at the start of your Movement phase, pick a Black Templars unit with the Combat Doctrines ability within 6” of this model. Until your next Movement phase, the Assault Doctrine is active for that unit, replacing the current doctrine. This is a great way to circumvent the turn 3 restriction that prevents you from achieving your full potential with combat units.

So yes, the dastardly scheme did come to pass.

You and your facts.. and quotes... How dare ye!

Yeah one unit getting through the arbitrary restrictions is amazing right?

It does at the least set precedent that Games Workshop are willing to create exceptions. Not hard evidence though, to be sure.

 Vankraken wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Bharring wrote:

Just where, exactly, are you seeing only Eldar players complain?

eldar are probably the big boogeyman in his (self-admitted) toxic playgroup so theyre being influenced into thinking eldars are the source of all evil.

Im tired of elves getting a bad reputation for a few overtuned units that are spammed because the rest of the codexes aren't competitive. (try playing drukhari beasts, aspect warriors or harlequin troupes competitively).

Eldar (Craftworld) has the baggage of past editions where they had a top tier army in 6th and rolled into 7th still going strong to only then have their 7th edition codex gives them nearly universal buffs across the board (minus wave serpents), d weapons, and generally a lot of anti fun gimmicks they could pull off. 7th edition Eldar codex was probably the most tone deaf release ever by GW until they one upped themselves with Ynnari (which basiclaly stacked the cheese on top of Craftworld cheese).

Right, I remember that time Eldar got like 6 ridiculously buffed codexes in a row, making them better at pretty much every gameplay role than every other army. And they paired it with that huge, 15-kit model release for Eldar that they kept advertising and releasing kits from in the middle of releases for other factions. Eldar were 60+% of winning competitive lists for months! That really was the greatest mistake and most tonedeaf release GW ever did!

owait.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

addnid wrote:
BA seem broken as feth to me, and they are obscuring the skies for our beloved bugs. Feth off powered plot amour boys, we want some tyranid previews !

They're far from broken. Nids should still be able to handle them given the BA's poor chapter tactic.

Yeah because there's no way gw will give ba a stratagem to skip to the assault doctrine.

Not to mention the fact that they're now "compliant " and will probably get access to most if not all the c:sm stuff.

Even if they do, so what? Assaulting with power armor is bad in 8th ed and will continue to be bad no matter how many bells and whistles GW adds to it. Power armor bleeds points up close.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Bharring wrote:

Just where, exactly, are you seeing only Eldar players complain?

eldar are probably the big boogeyman in his (self-admitted) toxic playgroup so theyre being influenced into thinking eldars are the source of all evil.

Im tired of elves getting a bad reputation for a few overtuned units that are spammed because the rest of the codexes aren't competitive. (try playing drukhari beasts, aspect warriors or harlequin troupes competitively).

Eldar (Craftworld) has the baggage of past editions where they had a top tier army in 6th and rolled into 7th still going strong to only then have their 7th edition codex gives them nearly universal buffs across the board (minus wave serpents), d weapons, and generally a lot of anti fun gimmicks they could pull off. 7th edition Eldar codex was probably the most tone deaf release ever by GW until they one upped themselves with Ynnari (which basiclaly stacked the cheese on top of Craftworld cheese).

yeah but whats the point of continually treating eldar like a boogeyman? Are they still overpowered right now? apart from airwing spam.

Because historically the ARE the boogeyman. Even going back to 2nd ed.

the_scotsman wrote:
Right, I remember that time Eldar got like 6 ridiculously buffed codexes in a row, making them better at pretty much every gameplay role than every other army. And they paired it with that huge, 15-kit model release for Eldar that they kept advertising and releasing kits from in the middle of releases for other factions. Eldar were 60+% of winning competitive lists for months! That really was the greatest mistake and most tonedeaf release GW ever did!

owait.

I mean books and models aside - 7th wasn't that long ago. There was a reason something like 1/3rd+ of tournament lists were Eldar, and Ynnari went on to have a ludicrous win percentage.
If there was less bitterness, its because 7th was a fairly obvious broken edition by the end, and Eldar/Tau/Super friends (plus a couple of others) essentially came down to who went first, while stomping over everyone else.

One thing to add to the thread.
The point about Intercessors having had 2 30" AP-1 shots for ages is reasonable - and I don't think they are a tournament issue.
But from a casual gamer perspective, starting with last CA I believe they have gone down in points, gained bolter discipline, gained an extra attack in the first round of combat (which is quite handy if you do try a tie up with chaff approach) and typically a buff to their chapter tactic. (I guess you can argue on Ravenguard - but I think people are discovering that yes, 2+ save outside of 12" isn't much worse than -1 to hit in most circumstances.) They may or may not benefit from an extra point of AP depending on whether you want to leave Devastator doctrine - certain armies will, others won't.

Meanwhile they are in an army as a whole which has been buffed considerably so you just feel like you get more.

So I don't think you can entirely say "the situation is the same, don't know what you are talking about."

With that said I don't think 30" guns break the game - models that can move and fire heavy weapons, hitting on 3s sometimes on 2s always rerolling 1s, with an extra point of AP breaks the game (add the mountain of IH synergies here). Quasi-turn 1 Deep Strike with say RG abilities breaks the game.

Or it doesn't break the game - but it feels obnoxious. I'm still not convinced for instance that eliminators are "broken" point for point. But it certainly feels like it when the guy across from you says its 2s following by 2s, eat mortal wounds, hope you can make your saving throw. Oh you are going to hide behind that rock? Don't worry, we can still shoot you. Okay its only 1 damage now, and so not hugely efficient on the cheap guys - but it adds up and if you are a bit unlucky with saves, theres a dead psyker/lynch pin buff bot/whatever.

To which you get "just use a transport" - yeah, unfortunately my faction's transports are dreadful unlike say.... Repulsors. Which I'm not convinced are a game breaking unit either - but they are "good".
Marines just have an embarrassment of riches right now.

GW gonna GW. Marines were trash, and then they massively overcompensated.

Martel732 wrote:
GW gonna GW. Marines were trash, and then they massively overcompensated.

I actually think if you play Space Marines with just the base codex that they actually feel pretty good, and not the OPness that comes from the supplements. The problem is that there isn't much reason NOT to play the supplements if you're going to play pure Space Marines anyways.

Darsath wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
GW gonna GW. Marines were trash, and then they massively overcompensated.

I actually think if you play Space Marines with just the base codex that they actually feel pretty good, and not the OPness that comes from the supplements. The problem is that there isn't much reason NOT to play the supplements if you're going to play pure Space Marines anyways.

Aye dex 2.0 is preety well done imo.

 Vankraken wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Bharring wrote:

Just where, exactly, are you seeing only Eldar players complain?

eldar are probably the big boogeyman in his (self-admitted) toxic playgroup so theyre being influenced into thinking eldars are the source of all evil.

Im tired of elves getting a bad reputation for a few overtuned units that are spammed because the rest of the codexes aren't competitive. (try playing drukhari beasts, aspect warriors or harlequin troupes competitively).

Eldar (Craftworld) has the baggage of past editions where they had a top tier army in 6th and rolled into 7th still going strong to only then have their 7th edition codex gives them nearly universal buffs across the board (minus wave serpents), d weapons, and generally a lot of anti fun gimmicks they could pull off. 7th edition Eldar codex was probably the most tone deaf release ever by GW until they one upped themselves with Ynnari (which basiclaly stacked the cheese on top of Craftworld cheese).

yeah but whats the point of continually treating eldar like a boogeyman? Are they still overpowered right now? apart from airwing spam.

I dunno but their history of being extremely powerful and often times anti fun to play against makes others who experienced that more critical of Eldar. Same set of baggage applies to the Tau. That said Eldar rolled into 8th on fairly even ground but with their codex they somewhat lead the pack with the whole minus to hit stacking thing which again is one of those "not fun to play against" playstyles.

I'm just pointing out some of the history at play and why people might not view Eldar in the best light.

oh i agree that the - to his spamming is unfun to play, so are invulns on everything (clowns) but i feel like without these stats, elfs are just faster marines with one less toughness. Their "tricks" are what keeps them alive.

Martel732 wrote:
GW gonna GW. Marines were trash, and then they massively overcompensated.

But they won't stop doing it. See pa2 and possibly 3.

And my point earlier was that ba are basically getting the full sm supplement treatment while nids are most likely getting similar to what pa1 and 2 gave eldar and csm. So more uneven rules.

They. Just. Won't. Stop.

Not Online!!! wrote:

Darsath wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
GW gonna GW. Marines were trash, and then they massively overcompensated.

I actually think if you play Space Marines with just the base codex that they actually feel pretty good, and not the OPness that comes from the supplements. The problem is that there isn't much reason NOT to play the supplements if you're going to play pure Space Marines anyways.

Aye dex 2.0 is preety well done imo.

Whe it first came out I was like... whaaaat!?
Its really good book. On par with everything else arguably leading the pack.. fair enough. People were saying marines were garbage so they got a boist. (by which i believe they actually meant:marines are garbage compared to alitoic airwing and IK lists).

I though ok i guess that keeps people happy. I guess i have to really be ruthless now for casual games and no longer be able to take fun stuff if i want to have a fighting chance and think extra hard.

Then came the 7 now almost 8 supplaments...
I guess im really going to have to invest in that alitoic flier spam then... (I wont)

I see Marine book 2.0 without supplements to be kinda like CWE 7E codex without ScatterBikes.

Still an unmitigated crap factory of bloat and stupid, both from a design and balance perspective. But the player is clearly trying to not be a donkey cave about it. Likely to be a fun game.

But also not what you'll see (mostly) at tournies.

Possible Solution:

What if using the Supplements came with a "tax" of some sort?

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Possible Solution:

What if using the Supplements came with a "tax" of some sort?

Sort off like a downside?
Like restricted units,or higher cost?

Better, forcing certain min units?
Could work.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Possible Solution:

What if using the Supplements came with a "tax" of some sort?

There are two possible solutions as I see it;

1. Give every other faction supplement style rules.
2. Remove the supplements from competitive play.