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Anyone else blown away by how underwhelming this codex is or is it just me? Next doesn't equal good and after seeing how good SM dex was, this is a suuuuper bust.

Well, I know of at least one person who thinks its rubbish. Otherwise the overall impression I'm getting is that people think its good but not OP, which is where it should be. I personally think it looks like a lot of fun and am pretty excited to get playing and trying out a bunch of different lists.

...

Ozomoto wrote:
Many, many said the same thing about the beta dex. Didn't stop me from winning ITC GT's with them.

Any interesting lists? Anything that transfers to the new dex?
Blood of Kittens doesn't show a single sororitas list for 2019 - though they only track games of 25+ players.

It's just a shame that for 4 points more how much a basic SM gets. The have neat tricks and things that look fun, but I just don't see this book being anywhere near good enough. I would be more optimistic if that SM codex wasn't bananas in comparison.

The SM codex is bananas in comparison to everyone's book. It's not a useful metric

I'm also underwhelmed, but mostly because of the restrictions within the book, what can be buffed from internal synergy vs what can't, and the fact a few things i really favored using got removed, and what was added feels oddly restrictive or doesn't make up for what got removed for me anyway.

Feels like the books pushed towards melee since nearly all the new models do just that that their core thing, but so few of them can be optimized to it further with the new internal synergies, and a good chunk of the codex doesn't benefit from most of the armywide rules, like they pulled the two halves of the ministorum further apart.

I would shrug my shoulders at this, but all i was definately happy about was buffs to 2 models i was already using, and im wary about the new stuff when my style took hits, other folk lost gearing options, and even some strats are completely dead in the water. im not even specifically thinking of a meta, and when that comes to mind, i just smell valorous heart tanking on the horizon. also, why are zephyrim oh so rerstrictive to their equipment options?

From the reviews and preview games on youtube, I'd say this book is a solid mid-tier. It has some niche mechanics and obvious synergies/tactics and on par with a majority of the other codexes.

Bdrone wrote:
also, why are zephyrim oh so rerstrictive to their equipment options?

Definitely a few odd ones in there, like the highly specific canoness double-weapon swaps (that don't let you field the actual monopose model), and the seraphim superior still being restricted by options on the metal model rather than the plastic kit.

 NurglesR0T wrote:
From the reviews and preview games on youtube, I'd say this book is a solid mid-tier. It has some niche mechanics and obvious synergies/tactics and on par with a majority of the other codexes.

Anything specific jump out?

They even stop you from trying to max command points by saying if you take X model...these models don't take up slots.... I just hate that after all this time, this is a lame duck. Sure anyone can be hopefully optimisitc, but it's reall just not on curve with power creep....at all. Wait this long to get middle of the road, at best is rough.

 Soccerlfb6 wrote:
They even stop you from trying to max command points by saying if you take X model...these models don't take up slots.... I just hate that after all this time, this is a lame duck. Sure anyone can be hopefully optimisitc, but it's reall just not on curve with power creep....at all. Wait this long to get middle of the road, at best is rough.

Don't worry, SoB always herald the closing days of an edition. So you'll only have to put up with it for about a year, year1/2.

ccs wrote:

 Soccerlfb6 wrote:
They even stop you from trying to max command points by saying if you take X model...these models don't take up slots.... I just hate that after all this time, this is a lame duck. Sure anyone can be hopefully optimisitc, but it's reall just not on curve with power creep....at all. Wait this long to get middle of the road, at best is rough.

Don't worry, SoB always herald the closing days of an edition. So you'll only have to put up with it for about a year, year1/2.

a wee bit optimistic don't ya think??

I'm diggin it and think it'll work out for my group @flgs.

They even stop you from trying to max command points by saying if you take X model...these models don't take up slots.... I just hate that after all this time, this is a lame duck. Sure anyone can be hopefully optimisitc, but it's reall just not on curve with power creep....at all. Wait this long to get middle of the road, at best is rough.

Yeah I'm pretty happy with it, looks solid and with personality. But some weird restrictions indeed

A.T. wrote:

Bdrone wrote:
also, why are zephyrim oh so rerstrictive to their equipment options?

Definitely a few odd ones in there, like the highly specific canoness double-weapon swaps (that don't let you field the actual monopose model), and the seraphim superior still being restricted by options on the metal model rather than the plastic kit.

very good questions, but the Zephyrim really bugs me just because they are brand new... but their kits almost no different from seraphim superiors or the geminae at all. i mean, fine, you removed melee weapon options as well... but you added the blessed blade, it doesn't even take extra to model. why can't the superior use it?

I feel like the people who are happy about it would be happy with anything and are just settling for a polished turd. It makes no sense, its weak...poorly written...multiple things don't make sense in it. And this is right after the bomb SM codex. Honestly the more I think about it the madder I get about it. Why is everyone so complacent with this?

 Soccerlfb6 wrote:
I feel like the people who are happy about it would be happy with anything and are just settling for a polished turd. It makes no sense, its weak...poorly written...multiple things don't make sense in it. And this is right after the bomb SM codex. Honestly the more I think about it the madder I get about it. Why is everyone so complacent with this?

Care to elaborate? What doesn't make sense and is poorly written?

Compared to some of the other books released so far they are far from the worst. If I was a Sisters player I'd be happy (subjective term on this board) with this book compared to what was available previously.

1: The codex is not actually out yet, so anyone saying anything about it really doesn't have a leg to stand on. I'm about to lay down some of my own speculation, and of course, I feel it's logical based on what I've seen, but again it is speculation.

2: From what we've seen,this book is far and away better than the beta dex. I'm pretty sure that even folks who dislike the new book would agree.

3. There's a debate in some places about varying interpretations of how many miracle dice can be used when rolling to hit and damage. General consensus is that we need a FAQ, and what it says about this once we get it is a big deal. Fortunately, it's looking like the ruling is going to go in our favour, because Tzeench already has a similar mechanic, and their rules provide an example that clarifies multiple dice can be used.

4. I do sympathize with the emotional reactions of many players who had hoped for a handful of specific things- many people really wanted the Geminae to be part of Celestine's unit like they used to be- this was a huge disappointment, and even those of us who like what we see so far are a bit sad. Ditto on the fact that we didn't get a jump canoness.

On the issue of a second troops choice, opinions are more divided. Some wanted a Frateris Militia, some were indifferent, and some may have thought that the Frateris Militia were pushing the limits of the Decree Passive. Of course, they also might have created a new Sister Troop choice, but it's kinda tough to figure out what that might have been.

5. As a counterpoint, there was a pretty vocal crew of naysayers who swore up and down that we wouldn't get any new units, but we did.

Anyway, that's about as much speculation as I have in me. See y'all in a week or two once we actually get our dexes and have a chance to play against a couple of other armies so that we can see if we all still feel the same.

 Soccerlfb6 wrote:
I feel like the people who are happy about it would be happy with anything and are just settling for a polished turd. It makes no sense, its weak...poorly written...multiple things don't make sense in it. And this is right after the bomb SM codex. Honestly the more I think about it the madder I get about it. Why is everyone so complacent with this?

Nobody is complacent. If you were expecting SM codex/supplement level of love, you just set yourself up for failure. Mid-tier(whatever the hell that means) is good, not overpowered, not weak, kinda like Jerry Seinfeld...even stevens.

The couple of local Sororitas players are extremely happy with the book, one even saying he doesnt need to buy anything new for his current list to be even better.

But since we play narrative, our opinions dont count for gak.

 Soccerlfb6 wrote:
Anyone else blown away by how underwhelming this codex is or is it just me? Next doesn't equal good and after seeing how good SM dex was, this is a suuuuper bust.

You're not the only one. It's definitely weak. Not GK weak, but not good.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

PenitentJake wrote:

1: The codex is not actually out yet, so anyone saying anything about it really doesn't have a leg to stand on. I'm about to lay down some of my own speculation, and of course, I feel it's logical based on what I've seen, but again it is speculation.

2: From what we've seen,this book is far and away better than the beta dex. I'm pretty sure that even folks who dislike the new book would agree.

3. There's a debate in some places about varying interpretations of how many miracle dice can be used when rolling to hit and damage. General consensus is that we need a FAQ, and what it says about this once we get it is a big deal. Fortunately, it's looking like the ruling is going to go in our favour, because Tzeench already has a similar mechanic, and their rules provide an example that clarifies multiple dice can be used.

4. I do sympathize with the emotional reactions of many players who had hoped for a handful of specific things- many people really wanted the Geminae to be part of Celestine's unit like they used to be- this was a huge disappointment, and even those of us who like what we see so far are a bit sad. Ditto on the fact that we didn't get a jump canoness.

On the issue of a second troops choice, opinions are more divided. Some wanted a Frateris Militia, some were indifferent, and some may have thought that the Frateris Militia were pushing the limits of the Decree Passive. Of course, they also might have created a new Sister Troop choice, but it's kinda tough to figure out what that might have been.

5. As a counterpoint, there was a pretty vocal crew of naysayers who swore up and down that we wouldn't get any new units, but we did.

Anyway, that's about as much speculation as I have in me. See y'all in a week or two once we actually get our dexes and have a chance to play against a couple of other armies so that we can see if we all still feel the same.

Given that literally everything is leaked online, I'm confident that it's bad.

Exorcists were nerfed significantly, Dominions can't use their transports [to be fair, they couldn't anymore after Vanguard Marines dropped].

Our Doctrines are weak, and so are the Order Convictions. Argent Shroud is literally half of Tallarn.

I definitely think it's weaker than the beta dex.

Soccerlfb6 wrote:I feel like the people who are happy about it would be happy with anything and are just settling for a polished turd. It makes no sense, its weak...poorly written...multiple things don't make sense in it. And this is right after the bomb SM codex. Honestly the more I think about it the madder I get about it. Why is everyone so complacent with this?

Measuring audience response by complacency is like asking why a cookie tin doesn't have a bad motor. It's not a relevant thing - you might like the codex, or not like the codex, or have opinions about whether it's strong in Very Serious Tournaments, or not, but being complacent? What does that, or being not-complacent, even mean?

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Soccerlfb6 wrote:

But since we play narrative, our opinions dont count for gak.

No. They don't.

Cool story.

Ozomoto wrote:
Many, many said the same thing about the beta dex. Didn't stop me from winning ITC GT's with them.

Everyone's milliage varies, I see strength in the new dex, you might not not. Move on its not for you. Next dex I might not see the strength but others will, it's not for me.

Yep, sure. And I'm the crown prince of mars, ruler of the bubblegum fairies.

None of the top 10 SoB players in the ITC have won any GTs, Even simon leen, the guy in first, hasn't won one.

So either you're full gak, not actually playing sisters, or don't understand what a 'GT' is.


As for the SoB codex, it is an incredibly mediocre book with good internal balance. I would place it roughly in line with pre-CA, pre-PA, DA, BA, SW, or Admech.

By the time the PA series wraps up and all the marine armies get their full rules and Xenos and chaos get a couple of small bumps, you'll be seeing about the same number of Sisters players as you do now, until then it's an entertaining book to go 3-2 or 2-3 with.


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Longstrider wrote:

Soccerlfb6 wrote:I feel like the people who are happy about it would be happy with anything and are just settling for a polished turd. It makes no sense, its weak...poorly written...multiple things don't make sense in it. And this is right after the bomb SM codex. Honestly the more I think about it the madder I get about it. Why is everyone so complacent with this?

Measuring audience response by complacency is like asking why a cookie tin doesn't have a bad motor. It's not a relevant thing - you might like the codex, or not like the codex, or have opinions about whether it's strong in Very Serious Tournaments, or not, but being complacent? What does that, or being not-complacent, even mean?

Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Soccerlfb6 wrote:

But since we play narrative, our opinions dont count for gak.

No. They don't.

Cool story.

I'm sorry, but when you're talking the competitive strength of a book, a narrative player's opinion kinda doesn't matter. The same why my opinion of the thematic...ness of the rules is dumb and isn't really based on anything.

To be fair though, the OP only implied that he was talking competitive viability and should have been clearer.

 Soccerlfb6 wrote:
I feel like the people who are happy about it would be happy with anything and are just settling for a polished turd. It makes no sense, its weak...poorly written...multiple things don't make sense in it. And this is right after the bomb SM codex. Honestly the more I think about it the madder I get about it. Why is everyone so complacent with this?

Well, what do you want me to do about it?

Personally I think your focusing on the wrong thing here. A SoB codex? Yay. I mean, we already have SoB rules - in the index & the Beta. But now we have all-new all-shiny PLASTIC SoB!
That means, whatever the quality of the rules, our armies aren't in (much) danger of being squatted.

 Soccerlfb6 wrote:
I feel like the people who are happy about it would be happy with anything and are just settling for a polished turd. It makes no sense, its weak...poorly written...multiple things don't make sense in it. And this is right after the bomb SM codex. Honestly the more I think about it the madder I get about it. Why is everyone so complacent with this?

Few to non people play the army, so few to non people are getting angry about it. Why should an orc player care that SoB didn't get an ultra tier codex. Same for any faction with small or no fan base.


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ccs 782852 10643205 wrote:

Well, what do you want me to do about it?

Personally I think your focusing on the wrong thing here. A SoB codex? Yay. I mean, we already have SoB rules - in the index & the Beta. But now we have all-new all-shiny PLASTIC SoB!
That means, whatever the quality of the rules, our armies aren't in (much) danger of being squatted.

People that already have bought recast SoB armies won't care about new models, they already spend their cash on an army. And squated, a new term I learned a few days ago, seems to mean being removed from the game. And it is true that GW, maybe will never really squat anything in w40k, at least as they have the models in stock and to sell. But there is very little difference between having no rules and having rules, so bad new people don't want to buy the army or the models, and people that already have them don't want to use them. It is like free healthcare in my country, you technicly have it, but if you need something big done to you can get a 10 or 15 year wait time.

Maybe it's just Necron blues but SoB's rules look pretty good to me. I doubt it's tournament winning because anything tournament winning is horrifically broken in the current meta, but I've always loved Tzeentch destiny dice so it's pretty tempting that they're in a game that I actually play now.

Being a "mid-tier" army is not bad at all in my opinion. Would people be happier if sisters were "trash-tier" or "broken op"?

Serviceable rules that feel like they transport the faction theme right + a buttload of new/renewed models is a big win for every player of that army in my book.

I am more curious to see where the SoB codex stand after the CA2019 changes. There is a brave new world awaiting us in 2 weeks.

 Eldarsif wrote:
I am more curious to see where the SoB codex stand after the CA2019 changes. There is a brave new world awaiting us in 2 weeks.

I doubt CA2019 will affect sob directly, i also doubt that Vannilla SM are affected by it.
It will probably stand amongst it's bretheren of non Vannilla Marines as a somewhat solid dex.

ITT: "WTF tHeSe ArE nOt MaRiNeS". Then Dakkanaughts melt.

The big thing for me is that the timing on when you spend the Miracle Dice feels off - they're distinctly mediocre as stands, where you have to use them before you roll. If you could spend them to replace a dice result after you rolled, they'd be vastly better and a notably more useful resource.