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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/30 18:58:12
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Calm Celestian
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EDIT: With useful feedback it's been brought to my attention that I should've been more clear on whom this book was being compared to. I am mostly comparing it to the 8.5 Marine dex with its various supplements. (Which I have a fair amount of experience with but I'm not the most well versed Marine player) Not a straight one to one comparison but vaguely how close these units would compete against the best in the current meta. The main thing that's been pointed out is the grade of the battle sisters squad. This compares to both a guard squad/Tactical squad/ primaris on how they would perform in battle.
Been playing sisters of battle since 3rd edition and survived through every heretic blasted dark day from 1999 to today. The day when I got my copy of the book and read it cover to cover. This is part one. The Miracle die, sacred rites and every unit graded on an A-F rating. This is my personal opinion. They are my thoughts in a theoretical sense, very limited gameplay and how they would be hypothetically used. I would appreciate feedback and will change descriptions and grades based on others experiences. It's late and part two, Holy orders, Strats, relics and warlord traits will be up tomorrow. So, without any more delay, let's get started. (I think I posted this in the wrong sub thread earlier so I'll repost it here)
MIRACLE DICE (MD):
Having never played AOS or Fantasy this was a new mechanic to me. They are gained in a variety of ways from killing a unit to losing a character. Warlord traits, character traits, a building and other ways. Used for almost all rolls. I can see the advantage. You must choose to substitute the die BEFORE you roll. So no rolling a bunch of to-hit rolls and then choosing to sub in a die afterwards. But if you need your overwatch melta to hit on a six and you HAVE a MD of a 6 saved. Then boom. However, only one act of faith can be performed per phase. (There are wargear options to change this) It APPEARS to be on a per squad basis. If this is true you can use multiple MD for the same squad. These cannot be modified in anyway (except a few character traits and wargear. However, there are abilities that let you burn off more useless die for added effects, which is pretty neat) Although I may be wrong. However, as a long time player I feel like it was probably a mistake to remove the old system. It needed tweaks not a complete overhaul. Something akin to a standard list of acts of faith that can be attempted (+1 to hit, -1AP, +3 move ect) that could be applied to units. Now, I haven't gotten any real games in with the new codex so we have to wait and see how powerful it is, but with having to choose the die BEFORE you roll and limited to one die per phase without other options. The investment in getting multiple per turn seems too great. It's a unique mechanic to 40K but I don't think it cuts it, especially with the loss of our old rules..
Grade: C- (This could be changed after rigorous play testing or if anyone on here has a good argument. I encourage you feedback on this, thank you)
Shield of faith: 6++ on all things, which can be modded and deny the witch on a single D6. 6++ is okay, but if you're getting your sisters killed with a melta gun, you have other problems. You're usually getting killed by mass rapid fire not single use, high AP weapons. On vehicles its more useful but on vehicles it cannot be modified. Which SUCKS. Still, a 15 girl blob with a 4++ is okay. But you're still getting drowned out by autocannon and a billion bolter shots. As for deny the witch, eh as well. It's hilarious to block a smite with a 6 when they rolled a 5 but the chance is so low it's not going to happen that often. There are modifers to all of these which make them each better but on their own....
Grade: D+ (Neat and thematic army wide rules, but will never win you the game or save anyone)
SACRED RITES:
Space Marines Doctrines, but worse (ladies), semi random and can go away (like my dad) depending on army composition. Which is fairly strange, considering I can't think of any other rule that does that. Even if you take separate detachments you lose it. Take that ladies, work harder and get less results.
If EVERY MODEL in your army (with the exception of an Inquisitor - presumably and thematically) you gain these abilities. You could choose one or roll 2D6 and get both. (But duplicates cannot be re-rolled and are technically lost) However, they are chosen at the start of the battle, not before. So you can choose which one you want depending on whom you're facing. (Very useful in tournaments I have to admit)
Hand of the Emperor (Slight nudge of the king): Add one to the advance and charge rolls. (Meh for your standard sisters army but rockets to the dizzying heights of slightly less meh if your entire army consists of Mortifiers and Repentia)
Grade: D+
Spirit of the Martyr (Don't die just yet): Roll a D6 per model killed. On 5+ shoot or melee one last time. (Actually pretty good. It's a slightly less good Space marine standard but army wide and cannot be lost. Did your Repentia die - of course they did, they're naked in the 40K world, they died before the battle started. Here's a 33% chance of murder blading someone's face off before you go. Seems more useful for a melee centric list which is a letdown because 8th is leafblower: the edition and most games are over by turn 2.5)
Grade: C
Aegis of the Emperor (You're simply not believing enough): Deny the witch tests at +3 this gives you a range of 4 to 9 for all units in your army. (With the few abilities to lower opponents psychic test scores that the sisters have, coupled with being able to do this army wide, even from vehicles. I definitely see a use for this but you would have to build your army around it. In a casual game this ability is much more powerful than in a tournament)
Grade: C+
Divine Guidance (Not divine enough): On a wound roll of a 6+ increase AP by 1. This is the definition of not great. It's not strong enough or anywhere near consistent enough to build an army around. It would be nice when it happens but, it's super not great. GnR's Chinese Democracy of not great.
Grade: D
The Passion (Love what you do and you'll never work a day in your life): An unmodfied hit roll of 6+ in melee scores an additional hit. (Conditionally better than Divine Guidance but worse because it relies on being in melee and with sisters that's a bad idea. Once again, more of a nice if it happens but still not that great. Sisters being weaker and squishier than the genetically enhanced, armed to the teeth, often psychotically unhinged, armored super soldiers you'll be facing)
Grade: D+
Light of the Emperor (The goggles do nothing): Re-roll morale tests. Army wide, always works, reliable. But sisters roll in MSU and in vehicles most of the time. There are other morale options and there's always miracle dice. It's nice that it's dependable (unlike my dad) but it won't do much.
Grade: D
So, overall, there's one that I would consider almost good but situational and one that's okay but even more situational. I guess they made them bad so that you wouldn't miss them when you ally in guard or a knight but that's the most backwards way of thinking outside of ignoring inflation and wages. This ENCOURAGES you to not run a pure sisters list because these rules aren't good enough to keep around. They should be much better (Because we'd be facing Marines or Eldar and die as per our fluff) so that we'd want to take a pure sisters list. Not the other way around.
Overall grade: D+
On to units: An awkwardly balanced and strangely composed group but with some real gems.
HQ:
Canoness (Not up to caliber): A decent statline hampered by an awkward array of wargear options and upgrades.
If you take a boltgun (GUN, not pistol) and a power sword you can increase your SM Captain ability by 3". This is odd, as this load out would encourage you to stay back in a gunline or near a tank, not take sweet redemption to the enemy. But then you also have to take a power sword. So it's confused, but not too bad.
You can take any pistol instead (hello plasma) or a condemder (HARD PASS) or you can take a blessed blade (Like a Relic blade, it's not too expensive and it's actually pretty great)
Or you can forgo all sword upgrades and take the Brazier of holy fire. -1 LD to Deamons only. (Not Psykers for some reason) and can do D3 mortal wounds when it shoots once per game. Deamons take D6 - which could be very funny but not game winning. This is okay. Season 13 of the Simpsons okay.
I have no idea why the wargear upgrades were done this way, it's awkward and limited and in some places counter-intuitive. (Like me at a secondary school dance) I don't think any other basic HQ choice is so hamstrung this way. It would be like saying a SM captain can only take a jump pack if he's equipped with three chainswords and a relic bolt pistol. NO JUMP PACK. It's been 26 YEARS. Don't tell me nuns wouldn't take a jump pack. I went to Catholic school for 10 years. If Sister Margaret could've flown across the playground to shame me, she would've.
Overall: C+ (Some utility and some support, but not that hard hitting or great at any one thing. Which is a problem as she's our main generic HQ choice and compares poorly to both a guard commander and a SM captain.)
Missionary (Bringing small pox would be more useful): A mini, less good Chaplain. Re-roll hits on the charge. Not great for a S:3 chainsword model. Has a save against friendly models fleeing, which I can see a use for but most sisters squads are going to get skin blasted off like in Terminator 2 during a single phase so not that useful. It's main ability is to give friendly church units +1 attack during combat. Pretty great with the right set up. Still, they lack melee options to add to the fight. But they are cheap and the only option for running an all church detachment if you wanted to do that.
Overall: C (Don't take more than one, can't take more than one. Also both Murder hobos are gone, which is a real bummer.)
Saint (Not a Demon Prince) Celestine: Remember when she was the best thing in the entire word because GW wanted to sell that new box? When she could cleave everyone in twain in a single go? Well stop remembering that.
Can regrow bodyguards and has a great sword. A GREAT sword that also shoots holy fire. Although I like to think she shoots it out of her eyes, early Piccolo style. Or Supergirl style. Whichever, you pick. She can die and come back once, so save a CP die. She also increases the shield save for friendly sisters INFANTRY (Not tanks, suck it everyone whom has multiple immolators) However this means she has to stay back to really, really help. Although ranging out with some Sera or Zyrhaphim is an option, kinda. She's still pretty good, but worse than last time around and not the 'Bring Robute back to life' good she used to be. Also more expensive....
Grade: C+
Triumph of Saint (I have the potential to be the craziest thing ever released) Katherine: Rules wise it could be amazing or the worst thing you've ever purchased outside of three whirlwinds. A T3 character with 18 wounds, 14 attacks (four with a super neat sword and 10 with a neat sword) and a -1 to hit (presumably its glory shames enemies into not hitting it as well) and a degrading statline. Friendly sisters auto pass morale and it cannot ride in a vehicle of any kind. You can split abby in half like Sasha Grey with this unit but it probably won't make it. It becomes a magnate for all bullets on the entire table and gets roasted by two chain gun Leman Russ. It's also dumb expensive but very, very funny.
It has 5 relics which degrade as it loses wounds. More Miracle die. Modify Miracle die by 1. Do D3 mortal wounds to Chaos and Psykers with the power of shame. +1 in melee (including this model, presumably) Do an additional act of faith. Gaining a miracle die and modifying them for nearby units is pretty good. The rest are pretty okay but doing mortal wounds is always nice.
Grade: C- (I could be wrong here, it could be the best unit in the game but I really doubt it.)
Junith (Forced Diversity) Erutia: Two heavy flamers despite being modeled with four on a floating pulpit, yelling down pure, undiluted shame at everyone on every side. Has the Captain and LT rules rolled into one. She increases the invuln of friendly Sisters infantry, but not vehicles (which is a shame because she could actually keep up.) She's pretty tough and hitty. Held back by being of the martyred lady (more on that later)
Grade: B- (Sky based shame)
Troops:
Sisters of battle (The one and only): Less good space marines but much cheaper and a bit more flexable with two weapons regardless of size. May take a flying baby that allows them to generate more miracle die that must be used that turn on that unit. The Sister superior may be equipped with two melee weapons and no ranged weapons other than a bolt pistol (I assume this a type but it does mean she can take two chain swords and no guns.) She cannot take a storm bolter, which bothers me as all of mine are equipped with them. Not too much to say, a solid unit that suffers greatly in the current meta and is our only choice. Not cheap enough to be a true hoard, not tough enough to stand under the fire.
Grade: C+
Elites: (Buckle up sunshine, we're gonna be here a while)
Preacher: A mini missonary that gives up run away protection to make Chaos a bit more afraid. No upgrade options and only metal models. Semi useful depending on your build and cheap)
Grade: C+
Geminae (We are the joke) Superia: Canoness bodyguards with jump packs.... sigh.... They can catch incoming wounds for Saint Celestine and can be grown back. But I feel like they are a trap option. They're not that expensive but they don't move with the Saint. Which means they can fail a charge that she success or vice versa, leaving one of them out in the cold. Two wounds each, they don't seem worth the time. They're nice figures though.
Grade: D (There's worse things, but not many)
Repentia Superior and Repentia: (Rihanna based pun) They go together, don't pretend they don't. The Dominatrix and her unwilling gimps ride into battle. Re-roll charge and advance and re-roll ones to wound. S:6, AP:-3, D:2 chain sabers. 5+++ and gain a MD when they die, which they will. Overall lacking. 7+ Armour and a 6 inch move. They have to be in a vehicle or you need a LOT of them plus other distraction units. They will kill whatever they get to (Especially if they have a Missionary and shield buffs around them but that's a large point investment) and better with bloody rose but they won't get to it. 8th is a shooting edition and they're naked but not afraid. Taking 50 of them and running them up the center has the potential to do some real damage to opponents and friendship but otherwise...
Grade: C-
Celestian (We've never been useful): A battle sisters squad with extra attack and leadership. The same weapon upgrades despite hitting better in melee so this gives them no good way of taking advantage of that. They can catch wounds and re-roll all attacks while near their Mistress but lack any real defining roll. Basic sisters do about 90% of the job for cheaper and are objective secured.
Grade: D
Zephyrim (Riot girls): Melee seraphim with no wargear options. S:3 power swords with re-roll to wounds and a 5++ on their own. Deep striking and assault (More possible with MD but still not amazing) If you take ten and charge (No orders or anything else) you're looking at about 7 dead marines or 4 dead Primaris. Is that worth less than 2 Benjamins of won't get their without getting a bit killed? You decide. Better with Bloody Rose. They have an ability to re-roll charges for themselves and others within 6 which could lead to some interesting synergies if nothing else. But still harder to pull off than you'd like.
Grade: C
Dialogus (My model is now way less scary): Has protection against mortal wounds in the psychic phase, but just for her. Increases leadership and can modify MD by one in either direction for nearby sisters units. Better in close combat than a sister but shouldn't be there. A nice model but outside of the most intensive MD based lists in the world, not worth taking.
Grade: D
Hospitaller (Helllllllo Nurse): Heals D3 wounds on a friendly unit or brings a model back to life with 3". Not on a roll. Just does it. This makes her flat better than any other imperial medic in the game. What say you to that, Apothecary? Cheaper too. It must be some sort of error that will be corrected later. Still, march her behind the Triumph and giggle a little bit. Could get an extra turn out of them this way.
Grade: B-
Imagifer (Sings the hymns of the Ecclesiarchy): Choose one ability during deployment (useful) Re-roll deny the witch tests. No. Ignore -1AP for friendly units. YES. +1 S. The +1 strength can be used to great effect for Repentia or Zyphs and could be interesting with the right deployment. But with the amount of Primaris running around with stupid sexy bolters and combat doctrines the ignore the -1AP of weapons is where it's at. A few units in cover with this ability makes sisters surprisingly tanky and she's got good utility as well.
Grade: B+
Crusaders: (Lost their way on the pilgrimage) At one point the greatest tarpit unit in the entire game, now, nothing amazing. Despite having a power sword and a stormshield for a stupid low price. They don't seem to have a reliable place to play. Especially since they can't actually tie up units in melee anymore since people can just choose to not engage you rather than stay in for a danger hug.
Grade: D-
Death cult Assassins: (The not as good assassins) S4 power swords with 4 attacks re-rolling hits. +1 attack with a Preacher or Missionary nearby. Only a 5++ save and die to dedicated bolter shooting. Still, if you can manage to get them into position they can kill. Same cost as a repentia but slower and tougher overall and has a harder time killing bigger things but more attacks to swamp a marine squad in a way they can't. Choose one or the other depending on the situation.
Grade: C-
Arco-flagellants: (Extra kinky killing machines) A 5+++ and 4 attacks on average. Up to 6 maximum. More with a preacher, re-rolling hits. They're S:5 and put out a lot of attacks but die almost as much as the other options. Whereas Repentia go after tough units, Death Cult go after Marines, these dudes go after hoards. Choose one depending on the situation.
Grade: C-
FAST ATTACK:
Dominions: (No jokes now, only questions) So, my review of this is going to vary depending on rules interpretation. If they can scout in a vehicle they're pretty great. If they can't, they're useless. (Unless you love four storm bolters - which, who doesn't?) They're good platform for melta guns (one of only two ways to kill a vehicle) and one for storm bolters (but this depends on spending a CP to get 2 damage and -2AP) Other than that, they are sisters that go before the starter pistol shot. Which is rude. Also the Repressor seem to be gone now, ironic, since we needed it to repress people. This realllllly cuts down on their ability to kill things safely. They're now exposed to return fire and reprisal killings.
Grade: D+ (With no vehicle) B- (With vehicle)
Seraphim squad (Stupid, sexy Seraphim): Jump pack sisters with a face so beautiful it makes them slightly harder to kill. Dual wielding pistols with the ability to take 4 melta or 4 hand flamers. Both have their uses, especially with the CP ability to shoot both at 12 when you deep strike, then shoot again normally. Hand flamers just above free. But, unless you're fighting a weird throwback hoard army, I'd go with the melta. Running with Saint Celestine (a 4++) or decent cover, they have a good chance to get to a unit you want to melt. Or deep strike in and melt something with sky based fusion. Still squishy and very killable but cheap enough to be a unique to sisters non-sexual harassment unit. The skystrike strat allows you to kill 4 marines with just bolt pistols when you come in. This can be a surprise and force you enemy to turn around and distract from an encroaching melee unit. These sisters are supposed to die.
Grade: B-
Exorcist: (This sounds like Rock and/or Roll): The big disappointment of last edition becomes much less disappointing. Still random shots but at 3D3 and a strat to re-roll it's more reliable. However it's about 2 Tubman's more expensive than last time too and inexplicably has a leman russ frame. Lost a point of AP for some reason but now has the ability to drop 9 S:8 AP-3 D6 shots per turn. This is good. Is it that many more points good? I'm not entirely sure. I also don't like being forced to pay for the heavy bolter that I won't use. Conflagration rockets are an Akbar level trap so do not take.
Grade: B-/C+
Mortifiers: There's you've failed, and there's we strapped your still living corpse to an open facing chainsaw machine gun demon failed. The new unit, so it'll be at least pretty good. 2 heavy bolters on a 3+ platform. Does D3 mortal wounds when it explodes. Can change weapon profiles on the fly and can make 15 S:6 AP:-1 attacks in melee. Just over 3 dead marines each in the first round (not including the 6 heavy bolter shots). And you can take 5 of them. It's very gross, fast and not too expensive (points wise. Money wise they'll let your blood) It can also take chainsaws for hands. Turning it into a Terminator, Primais, light vehicle killer. Depends on the enemy. But I'd say probably take 2 of 1 and 1 of the other. Plus, they might actually live to get to the enemy. Still melee but has other options.
Grade: B-
Retributor squads: (Heavy metal queen) Heavy weapon sisters. With heavy weapon options instead of regular options. Sister Devastators but better, surprisingly. They can move and fire heavy weapons. Take that, most space marines. Still limited to the holy trinity. Lacking Las cannons is a bummer but being able to jump out of a transport and murder melt someone on 3's is nice. And they add 4" inches (When not in a pool) to their heavy flamers. Which makes them the longest range, human portable flamers in the game. They burn so much, they augmented their flamers with the heat of their sheer contempt for you and everything you stand for. Good utility unit that doesn't put out an obscene amount of fire power but packs a punch for its cost.
Grade: B
Penitent engines: Worse mortifers, but a little cheaper
Grade: C+
Transport:
Rhino: A rhino with a 6++. Not much to say. Worse now that it can't get a 4++. I suppose only one Imperial vehicle can get that and it goes to the poster boys. Still, they get you where you need to be, from Chimpan-a to Chimpanzee
Grade: C
Immolator: New model, more expensive than before. Lost access to a 4++. A more expensive Razor back with long range double heavy flamers. Perfect with a burning squad of Retributors. Dual heavy bolters are cheaper but you lose the auto hit and only hit on a 4+ if you move. Has its uses. Much more useful if Dominions get to scout while inside her. Still a bit too pricey though. I'd like the option to drop the H. Bolter for a storm bolter and save points.
Grade: C+
Battle sanctum (An underground bunker of the faithful, I assume. Not weird connotations there.) So, much of this is going to depend on how the model looks and its size. Fortifications can be surprisingly hard to place on a map in a tournament setting. Even a friendly game, come to think of it. IT seems to have multiple floors as well. So how will I transport it? Answer me!? Grants cover and cannot be targeted. Gain +1 LD and subtract LD from Chaos units. Chaos (so not JUST Deamons? See what I mean about the Canoness now?) Gain 2 MD per turn. 1 for yours and 1 for your opponents. This varies depending on how much you put stock into this system. Which remains to be seen. For half a C-note it's up in the air.
Grade: Unknown, depends on size, shape and price and how much you like MD.
Overall, a mixed bag. Still, some under powered units may become exceptional with the right chapter tactic, warlord trait, relic or strat. Tune in tomorrow for the follow up. Adepta Sororitas PT.2 (The search for more money)
But so far: C+
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Part two
First of all, sorry for the delay, secondly, I want to say thank you, sincerely for all the feedback I've been given for this review. I still stand by my initial assessment as for the units in a standalone sense, except for the heavy bolter on the exorcist (I'd like to have the option of not taking it though.) But many of you made good points that I tried to weave back into my initial review. However, we will be moving into the rest of the special rules and I will attempt to show how some of the strats and tactics mesh with the basic units. I've gotten a few games in so far and I used MD wrong the first one but I think I got it right the second and third times. It's still an okay feature, but I did use it to promise a six on the damage roll to destroy a Land Raider filled with Bezerkers and that was, admittedly, a very nice feeling.
In this part I will be breaking down the sub-faction of the codex. Conviction, Relics, Strat and Warlord traits.
Order convictions (Like chapter tactics, but you're sure about it.)
Here I will list their conviction, special relic, strat and, when applicable, character to give a better picture of the whole sub-faction.
OUR MARTYRED LADY: (We're better when we die)
So, first you gain a miracle die whenever one of your units die. (Once per phase) In addition to if your character gets killed. So you may have lost your Cannoness, but you gained two dice, please include that in your letter back to her family. (Not that she had any) Plus +1 to hit for a unit if they lost a model earlier in the battle.
This is very much going to depend on how much use you get out of miracle die. I'm still not sold on the entire enterprise so the first part feels very meh and not something you should build an army around. If you love it, then I'm happy for you. However, this would force you to take large, maybe very large squads of slogging foot sisters in order to really make it work. I'm still convinced that sisters work best with 5 girls in a burn wagon, shooting 70mm automatic shame before getting their every atom shattered to the seven hells in a single round of return fire.
Grade: D+
Warlord trait:
+1 wounds, +1 save. (So the order that most wants to die, has a leader that's harder to kill) Would be useful on a SM Chapter Master or super duper on an Ork Warboss but on a squishy sister with no real murder machines, it's wasted)
Grade: D
Relic:
Martyrs' vengeance (Punctuated properly, which I appreciate.)
Replaces and inferno pistol with a S:9 always in the spot light 2d6 inferno pistol. While this relic does cost more than others, wounding a Land Raider on a 3 is nice. Not that bad, despite the short range. I could see her with a blessed blade being surprisingly killy.
Grade: C+
Strat:
Honour the Martyrs (We get it, you like dying)
If an enemy kills a unit of yours, re-roll 1s to hit until the end of the game. A funny, always stays on strat that is fluffy and sort of useful. However, since we'd probably be running 3 cannoness' for their cost and our general lack of options we should have good coverage. Might be nice for a roaming, melta dom squadette to take vengeance with. But, then, whom did their unit kill?
Grade: C
FINAL GRADE: D+ (The sister's pin up girls come in lacking. I could never imagine Ultramarines getting it this bad. And at least Ultras have a much sharper, eye catching paint scheme that looks good on the table.)
VALOROUS HEART: (Say you'll love me again)
6+++ and ignore AP-1 against all attacks. This bumps to ignoring AP-2 with the most improved unit in the game Imagnifier. This is huge, played against Khorne flakes, ignored their chain axes saved a vehicle. Played against Primaris and parked in a tree line with thirty lady nuns and ignored almost all of their shooting. Ended up being very hard to shift. Hands down, amazing but not killy. But with sisters just making it to the end of the game is an accomplishment. Once again however, this forces you towards larger, foot based infantry blobs to get the most out of it. Opening the army up to leadership issues and blitzing chaingun fire. Which plays against how I've always considered sisters to run.
Grade: A
Warlord trait:
5+++ If your game comes down to making this roll, you've failed. As a person.
Grade: D+
Relic:
Casket of penance: (Momma O'Sullivan's gonna put you in the scary timeout box)
-1 Toughness to enemy units if they have a model within 1" of you. Your warlord is in melee with something. You've done goofed. At best you have a blessed blade which means you'll still be wounding on 3's against marines. (Killing guard though, that's funny and pointless, this won't help you against the mighty treads of sky daddy's battle tanks) at worst you have a ruler used to discipline unruly children. And you'll be wounding on 4s with no other options. This is another example of something that would be amazing in another army but wasted here. Maybe we get it so that Kharn doesn't. There's only one and we're not gonna share.
Grade: D
Strat:
Blind faith: (360 no scope of pure belief)
One unit may ignore hit roll modifiers when shooting Soooooooo.... advance and shoot meltas with no penalties. Someone pop smoke but your piano fingers are itchy? Ignore it. Someone pop smoke AND you advanced with meltaguns? Absolutely. Someone happen to be a Raven guard? (They have other problems because they're not Iron hands) It's funny and strong, I've been telling people I have it before the game starts so I don't feel bad when I blast something on the first turn.
Grade: A
FINAL GRADE: B+ (What's bad is really, really bad. What's good is amazing and more than makes up for it. With the Conviction and the strat being so good you almost overlook how terrible the Relic is. A hairs berth away from perfection, still the best overall sub-faction in the book. Even with the weaknesses, play this or play wrong.)
BLOODY ROSE (Take me home...)
-1 AP to pistols and melee weapons. +1 attack during the first round of combat. (Simple, direct, subtle like a smoke beltching chainsaw sword to your smug, heretic face. This has uses, seraphim with AP-5 infero pistols. Hand flamers with - still skip these. Repentia getting their -4AP chain claymores back. If sisters had the staying power, this would be a viable secondary to the Toni Braxton brigade above. It could still work but you'd have to plan an army around it. Multiple Cannon's, Saint Celestine. Missionary and preachers. A hoard of Rhinos with Repentia and Seraphim running interference. Even then, I doubt it's repeated success. But it's nice to know they've weaponized their pure distain for you and everything you stand for.)
Grade: B-
Warlord Trait:
+1 attack, advance and charge. (This review will be lumped in with the Relic)
Grade: D+
Relic:
Beneficence (We named a sword after the word for mercy and kindness, aren't we clever?)
Free for a chainsword. +1 S, AP:-2 (So -3 with Conviction) D:2
So, lest we forget. A cannoness with this trait, conviction and this weapon is making.... 9! NINE attacks at S:4, AP:-3, D:2 hitting on 2's re-rolling 1s and can advance and charge. Almost 4 dead marines on the charge. 4 Primaris as well, so its better against tougher opponents. There's worse things. Unfortunately, you're still stuck on a Cannoness with no jump pack. It's a surprising punch, not game breaking but it will help you with one on one fights against someone with a low invulnerable save (Which I can't think of many. But there's not many lady's out there who can reliably solo a squad of super marines.)
Grade: B (When combined with Trait and Conviction, which you should do)
Strat:
+1 to wound in melee. (Murder! Murder! Murder! Kill! Kill! Kill! Could be clutch in isolation. Won't be momentum shifting because it'll be on repentia or Zyraphim. Would be useful for our most respected lady of unbelievable murder though - ¥olandi for short)
Grade: C
FINAL GRADE: B- (A one trick pony, but an impressive tricks that gets polite claps from the crowd. On a Marine frame this becomes hilariously amazing but this is not an all comers army build. This is built from the ground up to slice and tear. Probably in a vanguard detachment as an ally rather than a fully army. However, you're still running face first into bolt rifles and Primaris marines. But 8+ squads of repentia is something I've definately wanted to try. An overall more cohesive and useful set of abilities than Valorous heart but less useful as well. Which is sad because a bunch of power armored nuns ripping someone limb from limb like an angry wookie is one of the reasons I started this game.)
EBON CHALICE: (We are the black cups! Look upon us and tremble.)
5+++ against mortal wounds only. Plus, burn an MD to make another MD a 6+ (Smite spam is a real problem, please talk to your doctor about it. However, if you end up facing a psyker light list this becomes almost useless with other strats and abilities and wargear. A psyker heavy list will still murder the face off you. Could be the difference between a dead Rhino and a live one but I wouldn't write home about it. (Please talk to me, dad) The second part of always getting a 6 does have its uses but I'm not sold on the whole MD system as it is. Finding a way to burn off a bad roll into a good roll is better than nothing and might have a use if you build your army around it but I still remain stubbornly unconvinced)
Grade: D+ (But I may be convinced otherwise)
Warlord trait: (I've got something in my pocket for you)
The first miracle die you gain at the start of your round is a 6. Gain D3 command points at the start of the game. (This is actually fairly good, built around the MD system - which again, I get it - and the D3 command points is welcome but I can't help but feel they didn't really know what to do with this warlord trait.)
Grade: C+ (This should probably be switched in some way with our order of the dead ladies for theme)
Relic:
Replaces a Condemnor bolter. Which means you have to admit that you bought a rifle with a crossbow on top and didn't have the common decency to make it an underslung weapon. Can snipe character with D3 damage. Can snipe psykers with 3 damage. S:5 with rapid fire. Not too terrible. Two shots could do 6 damage and actually kill something. Not reliable but could be a fun surprise. These are the relics that never get taken in a book though.
Grade: D-
Strat:
We are the gods of hellfire. Pick a unit. Pay 2 CP. Make every flamer in that unit fire at sixes. Funny on a Dominon squad for 4 dead marines. Really funny on a Retributor squad for 8 dead marines. Season 3 of the venture brothers funny on overwatch for when someone is coming to give you danger hugs. Can be sprung from an immolator as well for 12 shots of outside of a hotpocket burning.
Grade: B-
FINAL GRADE: C- (A really underwhelming mixed bag. Like trail mix with no M&M's. An okay warlord trait and a funny strat does not a sub-faction make. A conviction that will win you the game about 20% of the time and be a weight around your neck the other 80.)
ARGENT SHROUD: (The Silvered hoods)
Shoot as if you haven't advanced. NOT as if you haven't moved. (This one is so short I feel like there was a copy/paste error in printing and there's a whole second part we're missing. Running to get in melta range is useful, with MD dice to promise the distance. Still, they're only melta guns. If you have to advance and fire your Heavy bolters, you're still hitting on 4's and made a Will Arnett level error.
Grade: D-
Warlord Trait:
6" Heroic intervention and always fight first. (Still a cannoness, probably won't turn the tide and there's better warlord traits out there.)
Grade: D+
Relic:
-1 to hit against her at all times. (This brings up an interesting idea. She could be bait, making marines hit on a 4. But, if you do that, she will still die. If she ends up in close combat with someone this will make her survive longer but ultimately won't save her against something she already would die against. Interesting for wrapping up a gunline unit and could, in theory, completely avoid overwatch with the -1 to hit. Has a use I could see, but not amazing.)
Grade: C-
Strat:
1 units gains a 5+++ against mortal wounds. (Pay a CP to gain an ability another sub-faction has on all the time. However, since this is situational you have more options with your army. I feel this should've either been a normal Strat or one for black cups to up their existing ability. This could save an exposed unit, or allow you to put a Rhino in the way to harrass a smite farm and still keep it alive. But it's your only exclusive strat and it's a big disappointment to its mom and its whole family. Weirdly, it's not just in the psychic phase, so you could may save someone from an exploding vehicle. But that feels like a reach.
Grade: D+
FINAL GRADE: D (Poor Conviction, Poor Warlord trait, okay relic, poor strat. Needs much improvement. If there's a loser in this codex. It's these girls right here. Wear the dunce hat and write lines on the board)
SACRED ROSE: (Has its thorns. There's a lot of music based puns today)
No more than 1 model can flee due to moral. When you perform an act of faith, gain a die back on a 5+. ALSO. Overwatch on a 5+. (There's a lot to unpack here. I feel like at least one of these abilities should've been shoved over to the hoods. Morale won't be much of an issue unless you're doing huge squadettes, so eh. The ability to regain MD on a roll is like the relic to regain CP but worse, because I don't like MD as much as I like neat CP tricks. But, built in rather than a relic and so more useful. Finally, overwatching on a 5+ is better than nothing. It's the most packed one so it's way more versatile but none of them on their own are that impressive.)
Grade: C+
Warlord trait:
Gain a MD when your warlord uses an MD. Self explanatory but relies on your belief in the MD system. Works very well with it but I'm not sure how often your warlord will be using MD for herself. Once a phase in theory but I'd be baffled if you did that and weren't intentionally trying to lose more than you already are by playing Sisters of battle
Grade: D+
Relic:
A super-de-dooper version of the Brazier of holy fire. -1 LD to deamons. D3 mortal wounds as a flamer. D6 if you're shooting a Demon. Can burn an MD to make it more than 1 use only. This is strange, because it's in some ways worse than the generic relic of this and it doesn't work on Chaos or Psykers. Which you'd expect it to considering whom the sisters are keen to fight. Ordos Hereticus in general usually. It comes down to how often you have to face Demons. If you face them a bunch, then happy times, this is the book for you.
Grade: C-
Strat:
Bolter shots of a 6+ scores an additional hit. Counterpoint to the passion. Judgment and passion. The cosmic ballet, goes on. Explosions of bolters are always nice. But you can't rely on it and can't build a list around it. Still, better than nothing. Like my stepdad.
Grade: C-
FINAL GRADE: C- (Probably the most schizo of all the Convents. Bit of more bolters, bit of deamon killing. Bit of MD regrowth. Bit of overwatch. Bit of LD modification. It spreads out in a confusing but broad way. Lots of options but no focus. It's the anti Bloody Rose. If for some reason you don't take Toni Braxton or the Kiss from a Rose, take these. Gives you the biggest spread for your buck.
Class grades:
MARTYRED LADY: D+
VALOROUS HEART: B+
BLOODY ROSE: B-
EBON CHALICE: C-
ARGENT SHROUD: D
SACRED ROSE: C-
Thank you for reading, I encourage your feed back and thank you for your time. In our final part, we will be discussing generic strats and Relics and giving a final run down.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/12/02 08:06:56
"Suffering is Faith, Faith is Strength.
Generations have suffered with the same devotion that we can offer but once. Still, our Faith leads us through these dark times like a beacon. It will guide us to triumph over these abominations. Either by breaking them upon us like waves against a limitless, golden peak or by thrusting through them like the spear of the Immortal Emperor Himself." - Cannoness Aoife, Order of the desert rose #Yesallwomen
Just finished my second album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptvBO4vwb-A |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/30 19:18:23
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Battleship Captain
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Have you actually played a game with them yet? Because I feel like the codex is more than the sum of its parts and people are judging it very harshly without playing a game or two with them.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/30 20:04:13
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Calm Celestian
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I got a small game in. 1K. Not enough to get a full feel from it, not by a large margin. These are preliminary thoughts.
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"Suffering is Faith, Faith is Strength.
Generations have suffered with the same devotion that we can offer but once. Still, our Faith leads us through these dark times like a beacon. It will guide us to triumph over these abominations. Either by breaking them upon us like waves against a limitless, golden peak or by thrusting through them like the spear of the Immortal Emperor Himself." - Cannoness Aoife, Order of the desert rose #Yesallwomen
Just finished my second album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptvBO4vwb-A |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/30 20:09:27
Subject: Re:Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I had a long post picking out details etc. I decided to delete it. This review is massively negative, and comes across as "My units aren't OP enough."
I have also played sisters since they first arrived. I will wait and see before I decide anything.
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Keeping the hobby side alive!
I never forget the Dakka unit scale is binary: Units are either OP or Garbage. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/30 21:51:16
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I think you missed the mark on basically everything ; and it is way to much to individually comment on everything. I think it is both an unproductive review that lacks any sort of competitive inspiration and frankly also just lacks innovation tbh.
To just touch the surface you obviously don't understand the buff synergies with charactors and stratagems at play. E.g. celestians d rank? valorous celestians are goib to be 3+/4++ ignore -1 and -2 ap(being way more durable then a plaguebearer vs almost everything), 3 attacks strength 4 rerolls all hits. That means they hit as hard as an interceasor in melee and are more then twice the durabilty vs things such as avenger gattlers. Other stratagems etc can come in and make these girls way more a steal . D is honestly a laughable joke of a rating. You also didn't take the time to math out some of the mechanics(which where easy too as well) to understand how good/not good they where; instead choosing to just dismiss things that are powerful force multipliers. There are definitely comboes in the book that outcompete current used choices in the game.
This feels like a review from a salty noob no offense
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/11/30 22:22:08
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/30 22:11:06
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Battleship Captain
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Also what are you comparing things to to be able to rate them? What's would be an example of an "A" unit? Presumably with no buffs, traits etc because that seems to be how you're rating things which for an army like Sisters seems like a flawed premise given that nearly a third of the units have an aura of some description.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/11/30 22:21:20
Subject: Re:Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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How is that negative? It averages out to C+, which presumably is slightly better than the dead-on-average.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 03:33:25
Subject: Re:Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Preacher of the Emperor
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I agree that this seems overly negative, but maybe a grading scale would help. What's an A+/A/A- unit, since there's seemingly none in this book? Obviously you aren't grading the book against itself, or there'd be the whole range of grades. But, you're also not grading the book against other books, since you can't possibly have matched up point-for-point against a bunch of other unit types and factions. Are Battle Sisters Troops a C+ against other units in this Codex, or against other Troops units from other factions? I suspect the answer is neither. Go ahead and grade the Troops category down for having only one unit, but rate that unit up for having a good variety of loadouts and aura/order/stratagem supports to render them (at least potentially) useful for their cost.
Fun writing style, though-- I like the snark and humor, just not at the cost of useful, meaningful ratings.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2024/12/02 04:20:00
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Couple notes. Marines have similar bonus they lose if not all aren't marines. Ours is weaker but we can mix orders, they can't.
Missionary is 1 per det which is good for 2-3 bat armies
Also why not using hb on exorcist? 36" range and you can shoot at different unit than missiles.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/01 04:08:11
2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 04:49:47
Subject: Re:Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Calm Celestian
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MacPhail wrote:I agree that this seems overly negative, but maybe a grading scale would help. What's an A+/A/A- unit, since there's seemingly none in this book? Obviously you aren't grading the book against itself, or there'd be the whole range of grades. But, you're also not grading the book against other books, since you can't possibly have matched up point-for-point against a bunch of other unit types and factions. Are Battle Sisters Troops a C+ against other units in this Codex, or against other Troops units from other factions? I suspect the answer is neither. Go ahead and grade the Troops category down for having only one unit, but rate that unit up for having a good variety of loadouts and aura/order/stratagem supports to render them (at least potentially) useful for their cost.
Fun writing style, though-- I like the snark and humor, just not at the cost of useful, meaningful ratings.
I appreciate this. I should've been more clear. I'm comparing this book to the new marine book. Which I have more experience with. (Although I haven't played every unit multiple times either) So yeah, this book review so far is compared to the 8.5 Marine codex plus the Guard Dex. As in, not a strict one to one comparison, just how I feel they compare to other Imperial units in a similar role. Battle sister squads vs Tactical marines/Primaris/A guard squad as troop choices.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/01 05:02:03
"Suffering is Faith, Faith is Strength.
Generations have suffered with the same devotion that we can offer but once. Still, our Faith leads us through these dark times like a beacon. It will guide us to triumph over these abominations. Either by breaking them upon us like waves against a limitless, golden peak or by thrusting through them like the spear of the Immortal Emperor Himself." - Cannoness Aoife, Order of the desert rose #Yesallwomen
Just finished my second album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptvBO4vwb-A |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 05:04:48
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Fresh-Faced New User
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How call people this review massively negative, he gave a C+ to a Codex that's at best mid-tier without someone surprisingly finding the secret sauce?
Is there some weird magic somewhere that makes SoB much stronger than they look like, cause if i look at the power creep apparently happening in CA 2019 to bring many other armies closer to Space Marines and then at the objectively much weaker than meta-relevant Space Marines SoB Codex than i highly doubt that they will end up very strong.
I play Sisters quite a long time by now(and read since an eternity on Dakka without signing up) and was really excited for a new full Codex, but the more i look at what currently surrounds that Codex release(some broken Space Marines chapters, release problems of the first new Sisters, CA 2019, etc..) and the very restrained written Codex(which is kinda a bit baffling after an actual feedback phase for the beta Codex, to just use two especially obvious examples how the hell is there still no jump pack for the Canoness and what's up with this silly wargear nerf for the Sister leaders) and then how people seemingly try to sugarcoat that(at least in my opinion) the angrier i get at GW. But maybe i'm just missing something?
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/12/01 05:08:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 05:47:23
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Calm Celestian
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gunchar wrote: ... but the more i look at what currently surrounds that Codex release(some broken Space Marines chapters, release problems of the first new Sisters, CA 2019, etc..) and the very restrained written Codex(which is kinda a bit baffling after an actual feedback phase for the beta Codex, to just use two especially obvious examples how the hell is there still no jump pack for the Canoness and what's up with this silly wargear nerf for the Sister leaders) and then how people seemingly try to sugarcoat that(at least in my opinion) the angrier i get at GW. But maybe i'm just missing something?
Their opinions are their own and I cannot fault them for having it. But I honestly thought I was being VERY generous with my review and gave a few units a bit higher grade than my initial gut reaction because I worried I was being too cynical. But based on units and some special rules (I'm still working on part 2) this is a pretty mediocre codex that can in no way hope to stand against the top books.
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"Suffering is Faith, Faith is Strength.
Generations have suffered with the same devotion that we can offer but once. Still, our Faith leads us through these dark times like a beacon. It will guide us to triumph over these abominations. Either by breaking them upon us like waves against a limitless, golden peak or by thrusting through them like the spear of the Immortal Emperor Himself." - Cannoness Aoife, Order of the desert rose #Yesallwomen
Just finished my second album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptvBO4vwb-A |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 07:21:18
Subject: Re:Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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I mean TBH I'm not sure how anyone can rate the cannoness as a C+.
if you're willing to take a relic you can get her aura out to 12 inches. a 12 inch captain Aura can be VERY nice.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 07:24:09
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Calm Celestian
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Well... in a vacuum and compared to current SM, it's going to fall far short. But I don't think it's fair to measure the entire book that way. There's a few Unique ideas in this Codex Automatically Appended Next Post: BrianDavion wrote:I mean TBH I'm not sure how anyone can rate the cannoness as a C+.
if you're willing to take a relic you can get her aura out to 12 inches. a 12 inch captain Aura can be VERY nice.
Given it's our only non unique HQ option apart from a Missionary, it's really just a waste of Relic/ CPs...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/01 07:28:41
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 08:10:22
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Lammia wrote:Well... in a vacuum and compared to current SM, it's going to fall far short. But I don't think it's fair to measure the entire book that way. There's a few Unique ideas in this Codex
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:I mean TBH I'm not sure how anyone can rate the cannoness as a C+.
if you're willing to take a relic you can get her aura out to 12 inches. a 12 inch captain Aura can be VERY nice.
Given it's our only non unique HQ option apart from a Missionary, it's really just a waste of Relic/ CPs...
yeah sisters definatly need another HQ option.
IMHO they should get something like the space marine chaplain
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 09:15:34
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Calm Celestian
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We have a lot of Chaplain like stuff. Idk that it'd fit...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 09:05:30
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Lammia wrote:We have a lot of Chaplain like stuff. Idk that it'd fit...
keep in mind chaplains these days have various prayers etc that they can use to buff self or units. which is more what I'm thinking of.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 09:06:26
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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BrianDavion wrote:Lammia wrote:We have a lot of Chaplain like stuff. Idk that it'd fit...
keep in mind chaplains these days have various prayers etc that they can use to buff self or units. which is more what I'm thinking of.
Prayers?
In an Ecclesiarchy army?
Unheard of.
Next you will want the Necrons to have some mechanical units or something.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/01 09:06:54
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 09:52:49
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Battleship Captain
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BrianDavion wrote:Lammia wrote:We have a lot of Chaplain like stuff. Idk that it'd fit...
keep in mind chaplains these days have various prayers etc that they can use to buff self or units. which is more what I'm thinking of.
So an Imagifier?
Dude said we ALREADY HAVE a bunch of chaplain type units. What would another one add but more of the same?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/01 09:53:07
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 09:59:16
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I don't get why people have to give the review such a poo poo response. He did say this was a first thoughts review. I get people want to be all hype, I do too, however you do yourself no favors in trying to avoid reason.
This does in any objective measure feel like a very solid middle road book. That isn't bad at all, just good solid and middle tier. That isn't negative.
Marines in power are an outlier that may never get fixed at least not for awhile as they had so many hard baked bonuses to make them better now they are overly good.
The sisters look to be quite good, just high middle good, which would make them pretty balanced, which is a good thing. We will see how it shakes out but I doubt they are going to give marines a run for their money.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 10:40:43
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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Sim-Life wrote:BrianDavion wrote:Lammia wrote:We have a lot of Chaplain like stuff. Idk that it'd fit...
keep in mind chaplains these days have various prayers etc that they can use to buff self or units. which is more what I'm thinking of.
So an Imagifier?
Dude said we ALREADY HAVE a bunch of chaplain type units. What would another one add but more of the same?
mechanicly they are VERY VERY differant.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 11:13:31
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
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SaltyNoob wrote:E.g. celestians d rank? valorous celestians are goib to be 3+/4++ ignore -1 and -2 ap(being way more durable then a plaguebearer vs almost everything), 3 attacks strength 4 rerolls all hits. That means they hit as hard as an interceasor in melee and are more then twice the durabilty vs things such as avenger gattlers.
While true, this particular celestian unit is being buffed by 280 points of characters including the warlord, a specific order, and a stratagem (or another 45pts)
Collectively you are looking at a 400+ point group of units to... hit as hard an an intercessor squad. With no means of moving quickly around the table.
IMO the celestians are still functional enough meatshields to warrant a slightly better score, though it's a pity that they have the 'one shock blocked, six models die' form of bodyguard with no mitigation.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/01 11:14:03
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 11:14:09
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Battleship Captain
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BrianDavion wrote: Sim-Life wrote:BrianDavion wrote:Lammia wrote:We have a lot of Chaplain like stuff. Idk that it'd fit...
keep in mind chaplains these days have various prayers etc that they can use to buff self or units. which is more what I'm thinking of.
So an Imagifier?
Dude said we ALREADY HAVE a bunch of chaplain type units. What would another one add but more of the same?
mechanicly they are VERY VERY differant.
I don't go near marines unless its to stab them so I dunno what chaplains do but I can't imagine its very different from confering a specific buff to a unit based on whatever its opposing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 11:16:24
Subject: Re:Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Killer Klaivex
The dark behind the eyes.
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BrianDavion wrote:I mean TBH I'm not sure how anyone can rate the cannoness as a C+.
if you're willing to take a relic you can get her aura out to 12 inches. a 12 inch captain Aura can be VERY nice.
Just a point but I think you could make an argument that HQs should be judged without Relics, Warlord Traits etc.
Especially in armies with few HQ options.
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blood reaper wrote:I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote:Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote:GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"
Akiasura wrote:I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
insaniak wrote:
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 11:34:40
Subject: Re:Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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vipoid wrote:Just a point but I think you could make an argument that HQs should be judged without Relics, Warlord Traits etc.
Especially in armies with few HQ options.
Okay then - I think she's great.
A cheap buffing character that you can slot in without feeling like you are paying a tax with a wide range of options to play with. Basically everything I'd like an Archon to be.
Want one with a boltgun and nothing else to camp some Exorcists? Great.
If you want you can run into combat you can take a blessed blade (or bloody rose+relics etc) - which is better than a huskblade because screw you thats why.
She doesn't have your favourite shadow field (sorry) - but I think she should do more damage for two thirds the cost. (For now just take a blaster, but that option will go sooner or later.)
Is she a daemon prince or smash captain? No, but she's a fraction of their point cost.
The missionary is in the same boat. He's an incredibly cheap HQ slot filler - and +1 attack is a very powerful buff. A 4++++ on morale failure also arguably isn't bad, but I think you are going to MSU everything so its a bit "eh". But again, 38 points. You wouldn't need to save many models to pay for itself even if it did nothing else.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 11:42:51
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Regular Dakkanaut
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still cold on the Canoness a bit. she's great as a buff HQ or a melee build, but she use to actually use more variants on range, and im gonna be annoyed they removed them and added precious little. her rank affords much more than they gave her to potentially use.
Blessed Blade is not shabby at all though, that much is true. i may not be happy for no evicerator or power axe options, buuuut this thing makes up for it a good bit.
Missionary could do work if you get the aura's in place, but they did remove a different named HQ and vaguely hand his gear as an option to this one. luckily if you use em right he'll likely do good work. also being the one most cheap, you'll probably bring one if your whole focus is reduced cost.
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Army: none currently. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 12:02:27
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Calm Celestian
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Bdrone wrote:still cold on the Canoness a bit. she's great as a buff HQ or a melee build, but she use to actually use more variants on range, and im gonna be annoyed they removed them and added precious little. her rank affords much more than they gave her to potentially use.
Blessed Blade is not shabby at all though, that much is true. i may not be happy for no evicerator or power axe options, buuuut this thing makes up for it a good bit.
Missionary could do work if you get the aura's in place, but they did remove a different named HQ and vaguely hand his gear as an option to this one. luckily if you use em right he'll likely do good work. also being the one most cheap, you'll probably bring one if your whole focus is reduced cost.
They're only 7 points cheaper base, so idk that it's worth it without a plan to use them somewhere. On the flip side Preachers went up 5 points and now have a -1Ld vs Chaos aura...
...
...So are now an *over priced* waste of an Elite slot...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 12:12:24
Subject: Re:Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Killer Klaivex
The dark behind the eyes.
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Tyel wrote: vipoid wrote:Just a point but I think you could make an argument that HQs should be judged without Relics, Warlord Traits etc.
Especially in armies with few HQ options.
Okay then - I think she's great.
A cheap buffing character that you can slot in without feeling like you are paying a tax with a wide range of options to play with. Basically everything I'd like an Archon to be.
Want one with a boltgun and nothing else to camp some Exorcists? Great.
If you want you can run into combat you can take a blessed blade (or bloody rose+relics etc) - which is better than a huskblade because screw you thats why.
She doesn't have your favourite shadow field (sorry) - but I think she should do more damage for two thirds the cost. (For now just take a blaster, but that option will go sooner or later.)
Is she a daemon prince or smash captain? No, but she's a fraction of their point cost.
I actually agree. Indeed, I was very much thinking of the Archon when I said HQs should be judged without Warlord Traits, Relics etc.
I do think it's a real shame that she has no option for a Jump Pack but other than that I really don't see a lot to complain about. Especially given her cost she seems pretty damn good, to be honest.
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blood reaper wrote:I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote:Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote:GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
Andilus Greatsword wrote:
"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"
Akiasura wrote:I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
insaniak wrote:
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 12:28:15
Subject: Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I also disagree on the review of the sacred rites. These are mostly solid buffs.
Hand of the Emperor: +1 advance and charge is good for any assault focused army. Failing charges loses games. You have a couple of ways to advance and charge in the codex. You also through miracle dice have a way to guarantee charges - which is a huge boost.
Spirit of the Martyr - 5+ to shoot a weapon or swing. Its typically going to be worse for an assault army, because you only get one attack. As opposed to another volley with a stormbolter, or a blast from a multi-melta etc. I mean it applies to Exorcists. Okay still a 5+ - but with a CP reroll that's odds on to happen. Then you get to shoot 3D3 S8 AP-3 shots at something. As with the SM banner - sometimes it will do nothing, others it will appear to win games on its own.
Aegis. Agree its obviously skewed depending on whether your opponent has psychic or not - but a 4-9 dispel on most units is reasonably solid. I can certainly think of Chaos armies with all the psykers (hi Ahriman) that have the potential to be shutdown quite hard here, if they are getting mediocre rolls on those smites. I'd say its one of the weaker abilities unless you are list tailoring (with say a nullrod canoness etc thrown in there etc) though.
Divine Guidance - people may say "what difference does 1 AP make" - but as Marines are showing, a reasonable amount. With say basic sisters - bolters/stormbolters, shooting MEQ, that -1 on 6s is a 16% damage buff (33% if they have cover). Less valuable when shooting say Ork Boys (6% buff) - but it will add up in a shooty list.
The Passion - exploding hits is always great, and so it is here. On say repenta - or even basic sisters -, this translates into 33% more expected hits. That's a huge buff.
When fully synergised your basic nine point sister can make 3 S4 AP-1 attacks, rerolling 1s to hit and 6s=2 hits. WS4+ is the only sad fact - but unlike say Ork Boys or GSC Acolytes you keep a reasonable shooting threat (with stormbolters etc) and a 3+ save with a potentially further buffable invul. (Obviously how practical putting this combination together while say eliminators etc proliferate is debatable - but still.)
Light of the Emperor is the only out and out miss. Getting some extra miracle dice a game may be nice, but build MSU and morale isn't going to be an issue. As SM and Word Bearers show - its not as if this ability will help much if your 15 strong sister squad has got mangled anyway. As I see it, if you get this, use the CP to reroll to get something better.
With say Bloody Rose I think you have 4 good buffs, 1 situation one in the Aegis, and 1 bad one. Which is quite good odds for getting a good combination.
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Edit for the above.
I agree a jump pack would be nice on a canoness. Unfortunately no model=no rules prevails, and doesn't seem to be stopping any time soon.
Roll on DE codex 2.0 and Archons are going to have splinter pistols and husk blades and that's it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/01 12:32:43
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/12/01 13:17:05
Subject: Re:Sisters of battle 8th edition codex review Pt. 1 (Miracle die, sacred rites and EVERY unit)
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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given the demand for the sisters box I think it's safe to say sisters are a sucess. so with any luck past the codex release GW'll continue to put out models for them periodicly. a level of support akin to what admech is getting would be perfect (admech seems to be averaging a new kit a year)
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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