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There are a couple of models I don't like in pretty much any army.
However, I think most of the IG infantry looks outright silly, especially when compared to other human sculpts like Sisters, Inquisitors, Mechanicum, GSC or even pox walkers. While most other modern miniatures look like their artworks, most AM infantry and characters look like cheap action figures from the 80s.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Dysartes wrote: That Tau range - specifically, from the release of the Riptide onwards.
The initial range from 3rd ed was OK, bar some... odd design choices (plastic/metal hybrid Broadsides, anyone?).
They had some interesting background on favouring airpower over EVEN BIGGER BATTLESUITS, which was expanded on in Imperial Armour with the Tiger Shark with big railguns for hunting Knights/Titans. Efficient use of resources with units which can cover multiple theatres makes sense.
What do we get instead the next time they've revisted? The fething Riptide, and multiple EVEN BIGGAH BATTLESUITS since.
Get that anime garbage outta here, FFS...
This. Tau were meant to be mobile combined arms. How far we've fallen from that with armies made up of 3 Riptides, 3 Commanders, token fire warriors/pathfinders and drone swarms.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Voted for Custodes. They are just... egh... ridiculous, even for 40k standard. Too opulent, overdone, busy... Their FW vehicles are good, though.
Honorable Mentions:
IG Tempestus Scions
IG Taurox
IG Ratlings
SM Centurions
SM Aggressors
SM Wulfen
SM Santa Claws
SM Flyers (the majority of them)
AdMech Arehcocopter
AdMech Castellan Robots
AdMech Dragoons
Tau (All big battlesuits due to Gundam/Anime crap, and I dislike walkers in general)
Dysartes wrote: That Tau range - specifically, from the release of the Riptide onwards.
The initial range from 3rd ed was OK, bar some... odd design choices (plastic/metal hybrid Broadsides, anyone?).
They had some interesting background on favouring airpower over EVEN BIGGER BATTLESUITS, which was expanded on in Imperial Armour with the Tiger Shark with big railguns for hunting Knights/Titans. Efficient use of resources with units which can cover multiple theatres makes sense.
What do we get instead the next time they've revisted? The fething Riptide, and multiple EVEN BIGGAH BATTLESUITS since.
Get that anime garbage outta here, FFS...
This. Tau were meant to be mobile combined arms. How far we've fallen from that with armies made up of 3 Riptides, 3 Commanders, token fire warriors/pathfinders and drone swarms.
Ah but wait it gets better! The 4th place the other day at 'Ere We Go Again Ladz! GT was like 12 models of which 3 were Stormsurges... 7 Broadsides. The rest cheapo HQ.
I understand you but of all the models that have been replaced with fancier plastics I think the Scions are among the best but every single sprue I've bought has a giant mold line across it that's annoying as hell!
Strongly disagree, Scions are "fine" but they have zero of the tacticool operative feel of the Kasrkin and even the original Storm Troopers. Scions look like they belong guarding some palace with their silly chestplates. And the leader not being able to take a rifle is boneheaded stupidity.
Oh they look ornate in a grimdark way so I like them but I can totally understand you as I love my old Kasrkin models too. Did you ever take a thunder hammer on your squad leader in a Demonhunters army? /giggle
You should split standard and primaris space marines in the poll. I love standard marines, but my least favourite sculpts of anything 40k are mostly primaris models.
robbienw wrote: You should split standard and primaris space marines in the poll. I love standard marines, but my least favourite sculpts of anything 40k are mostly primaris models.
Even Centurions???
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
KingmanHighborn wrote: As I said before. For me the Juan Diaz daemonettes sculpts are the pinnacle of awesomely designed, thematic, beautiful models, that reflect what they are.
The entire Slannesh demon range before and after has been awful though.
And it was probably ruined because of some Timmy's mom and a stern letter. >_>… (note the author of this statement has nothing against Timmy's NOR does he know if this is true or not.)
You can totally not like the aesthetic but lets be clear - that IS and always has been slannesh's aesthetic.
The diaz models as nice as they were, were a departure from the original design. Hermaphroditic design has always been at the core of slannesh design, not just space bewbs.
I think the current slannesh aesthetic is totally on point for what slannesh is. Not liking it is fine but it means you don't like the slannesh a we aesthetic in general, which is also fine.
100% agreed. Daemonettes aren't just "hot girl demons". They, and Slaanesh daemons in general, are supposed to be beautiful AND monstrous, and to incite desire in EVERYONE, not just straight guys. The Diaz designs were completely one-dimensional and totally removed all the complexity and ambiguity and duality of them.
The allure is psychic/pheromone based, not physical. If you play the physical appearance card, you're asserting that every person in the galaxy is into intersex punk rockers, and I'd say that is probably not the case.
Nor are they into bewbsquid daemons either. The models are their true form and their glamour shows them to be the most alluring thing the viewer wants - for an Ork that might be the reddest most fastest warbike ever, or a vision of him crumping his enemy
I fear I couldn't bring myself to vote for Abaddon in this lineup.
There are certainly a lot of nice details on his model, which I appreciate. However, there are also a few things that really bug me:
- Something about his face rubs me the wrong way. Not sure what exactly, maybe because it vaguely reminds me of someone (can't think who though) or maybe because the excessively-bulky armour just makes the proportions look off.
- I absolutely can't stand his stupid top knot. I don't care if it was in some of his artwork - it looks like he has the entire Tower of Babel growing out of his head. This is probably more just a personal thing because so many DE heads are stuck with top knots and I hate every single one of them.
- Why does he need a trophy rack? If nothing else, can he seriously not afford to just pay someone to carry that crap around for him? I really hate GW's obsession in recent years with taking a perfectly good model and then just bolting more and more crap to it.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
Nor are they into bewbsquid daemons either. The models are their true form and their glamour shows them to be the most alluring thing the viewer wants - for an Ork that might be the reddest most fastest warbike ever, or a vision of him crumping his enemy
I figure for orks they'd manifest as the most invitingly brutal, stubborn, well-armed, tough-as-nails enemy to fight with EVER, since fighting is basically the closest ork equivalent of sex.
***Bring back Battlefleet Gothic***
Nurgle may own my soul, but Slaanesh has my heart <3
For me it has to be harlequins. I love them, have an army of them, but when you have 6 basic poses that can't be modified without a lot of conversion work, Fielding more than 10 of and not having a cookie cutter army is hard. I had to do a lot of work to make all the new plastic models not look like clones. But after mixing a dozen and a half of the old metals, it didn't ended up copy pasted. That is basically my biggest gripe with new GW.
But for most nauseous terrible models, the space Marine line. The special characters, santa sleigh, dancing wolves. So much potential wasted on stupid dynamic poses. Or the baby suit or the Terminator baby carrier...yeah space Marines fro sure.
it's a problem with a lotta newer armies TBH, with my Stormcrows I've been lucky and thanks to useing a varity of various older mark helmets have managed to keep my army loking fresh and characterful
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
nataliereed1984 wrote: You can totally not like the aesthetic but lets be clear - that IS and always has been slannesh's aesthetic.
The diaz models as nice as they were, were a departure from the original design. Hermaphroditic design has always been at the core of slannesh design, not just space bewbs.
I think the current slannesh aesthetic is totally on point for what slannesh is. Not liking it is fine but it means you don't like the slannesh a we aesthetic in general, which is also fine.
100% agreed. Daemonettes aren't just "hot girl demons". They, and Slaanesh daemons in general, are supposed to be beautiful AND monstrous, and to incite desire in EVERYONE, not just straight guys. The Diaz designs were completely one-dimensional and totally removed all the complexity and ambiguity and duality of them.
Well of course I politely disagree and this is about one's 'personal' preferences. But the 'aesthetic' has always been 50/50 sexual drive split with Hellraiser style body horror.
Take a look at this: Does that look hermaphroditic/androgynous ? Or supernaturally alluring? Or even something that could conceivably get you to drop your guard? You know what it looks like? A squad of Tarkatans from Mortal Kombat with crab pincers.
nataliereed1984 wrote:
100% agreed. Daemonettes aren't just "hot girl demons". They, and Slaanesh daemons in general, are supposed to be beautiful AND monstrous, and to incite desire in EVERYONE, not just straight guys. The Diaz designs were completely one-dimensional and totally removed all the complexity and ambiguity and duality of them.
The allure is psychic/pheromone based, not physical. If you play the physical appearance card, you're asserting that every person in the galaxy is into intersex punk rockers, and I'd say that is probably not the case.
It's not meant to suggest they *literally* look like intersex vampire dominatrices, it's just a better visual *representation* of their androgynous, shifting, and somewhat disquieting allure then a bunch of boob-demons are. Heck, in the lore, they're each supposed to look different from one another, and also to only shift into a more monstrous appearance once you get close enough for them to start killing you. So yeah, the current daemonettes aren't a 1:1 example of what the things actually look like, but they represent their nature and concept, and of Slaanesh in general, vastly better than the Diaz sculpts did.
Also, IIRC, one of the things that's supposed to be disquieting and uncomfortable about seeing them is that you find them beautiful even if the androgynous, masculine, or feminine aspects (depending on your orientation) aren't what usually attracts you.
They aren't 'hot girl demons' universally (though they are called daemonettes for a reason.) but they are supposed to have a certain aesthetic of beauty, that can be on some level horrifying as well. Personally to me, the latest generation is a product of focus tested, pg-13 versions of the Diaz sculpts. And the previous generation was absolutely god awful. Of the three eras of models the Diaz sculpts did a far better job at representing what Slaanesh IS, especially at that moment of shifting to subtly slit someone's throat or rip them apart in such a way that while they die in seconds, they perceive it as an agonizing eternity. There's nothing alluring or subtle about giant crab pincers, and the newer sculpts are again super watered down versions of the previous much better quality and lore fitting designs. And even then the new versions, their faces look so blandly 'token evil' the poses don't remind me of dancing, and twirling in close, or playing deadly mind games. It's just back to crab pincers and this time, these skinny emaciated legs, and gravity defying hair (while still looking like they are standing still.)
And as far as the newer line, the Masques are bland, though nothing overly wrong with the one in the over the top jester collar and Xerxes via 300 outfit. (The other masque model is hot garbage.) Then there's a model that's literally just a bland dude with an axe and a daemonette stuck on his back.
About the only model that currently shows off Slaanesh's m.o. is the Infernal Enrapturess and even she's pretty tame in some regards.
Also, kinda forgetting about a few demographics to say Diaz's models would only appeal to one certain orientation.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/12/19 06:17:01
My beloved 40K armies:
Children of Stirba Order of Saint Pan Thera
Personally, I think that the worst thing about the current daemonette models is how they look like they're just plodding along, not leaping about gracefully. Models like the Contorted Epitome got it better. DoK conversions I think make for better daemonettes.
Voted chaos daemons, because alot of their sculpts just miss the mark. They look more like aliens than proper demons, for demons I want straight biblical wackiness, burning wheels with 20 eyes and thirty wings, giants with 11 arms on one side and 10 on the other. I realize I'm probably in the minority on that.
Though I was curious why so many necron votes, I can see voting for/against the old squatty warriors, but the rest of the line seems ok.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
Grimgold wrote: Though I was curious why so many necron votes, I can see voting for/against the old squatty warriors, but the rest of the line seems ok.
Some divisive things in Necrons are the barges, arks and monolith off the top of my head. I kinda see why, I want to play Necrons for the Canoptek Wraiths and Triarch Stalker but the "meh-ness" of everything else that isn't troops is holding me back. The flyers look OK though
It just sucks that the two best models Necrons have are completely non-synergistic.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/19 21:31:15
KingmanHighborn wrote: Don't think I'd called them Maxim ideals. But they are a hell of a lot better representation of Slaanesh's allure.
As shocking as it might seem, the human male gaze is, galactically speaking, a very small portion of the sentience that slannesh affects.
As you can't represent universal allure at all (especially with space bewbz), GW have, with the exception of Diaz, modelled the true daemonic form of the daemonettes and left the allure to be implied.
You can see the original description of them from slaves to darkness attached along with a picture of their original design. According to the description they're supposed to elicit loathing with their perverse forms. Seems like they've done just that in this thread, so success!
And for context, this was before the supposed PC conspiracy alluded to by others previously. It's from the 80s and is from a book that actually had a content warning printed on the cover "for mature readers only'. And yet is not pandering at all. If anything, what this shows is that Diaz consciously went against the original design to deliberately pander to the heavy male gaze dominating the hobby, making it the opposite of a PC conspiracy...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/19 22:19:09
Dysartes wrote: That Tau range - specifically, from the release of the Riptide onwards.
The initial range from 3rd ed was OK, bar some... odd design choices (plastic/metal hybrid Broadsides, anyone?).
They had some interesting background on favouring airpower over EVEN BIGGER BATTLESUITS, which was expanded on in Imperial Armour with the Tiger Shark with big railguns for hunting Knights/Titans. Efficient use of resources with units which can cover multiple theatres makes sense.
What do we get instead the next time they've revisted? The fething Riptide, and multiple EVEN BIGGAH BATTLESUITS since.
Get that anime garbage outta here, FFS...
This. Tau were meant to be mobile combined arms. How far we've fallen from that with armies made up of 3 Riptides, 3 Commanders, token fire warriors/pathfinders and drone swarms.
I was trying to put my finger on what i don't like about the tau line, and this comment said it. if this focus on airpower was what they had done id like the Tau even more than i do as a force. this mobile army anchoring itself with giant mechs that don't even seem all that stable to me (then you get into pricing) really puts me off the army. I love the shooting and even to some extent markerlight priotity, i like the drones, i like the infantry models and the smaller battlesuits. but you all nailed it. post riptide i just... straight up don't care for the models on that scale or larger. i MIGHT draw the line at the ghostkeel... but even then, only because it looks more maneuverable.
Is there a list you can even do without the tide and surge that stand okay in the current game? from what ive read, not really...
Like, I definitely agree they should be combined arms, and make that an important and viable way for them to function, not JUST big huge Gunda- uh - "Battlesuits", but… for me, the reason T'au are possibly my least favourite faction* is because they look too…um… I guess too sensible for the setting? For me, a whole lot of the fun and appeal of 40k is how stupid and over-the-top and 80s and maximalist and anachronistic it all is. This big bag of sci-fi tropes, medieval and renaissance history, Catholicism, the Western European literary canon, and post-Tolkien fantasy, stuffed into a giant blender, then satirized by way of 2000 A.D. and Alan Moore, then plugged into an amp stolen from Iron Maiden's bus by a drunken goth, then turned up to 11, then playing a weird 16th century English ballad on it.
T'au is pretty much the only army that don't really fit that vibe… except for stuff like the Riptides and Stormsurges, which feel like taking Japanese mecha and putting them through the blender/satire/amp.
That's just my own take, though. There's lots and lots of different angles from which to enjoy 40k. And I can definitely see the appeal for some people of T'au being "the one sane, reasonable dude with a pragmatic approach to conflict and warfare stuck in a model UN project with a group of bonkers, drunk, metalheads obsessed with Milton".
...
* - not really, though. THAT honour is shared between the Grey Knights and Custodes.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/12/19 23:02:43
***Bring back Battlefleet Gothic***
Nurgle may own my soul, but Slaanesh has my heart <3
For me it's easily Custodes. They are way overdone with the pauldrons and coneheads with topknots and capes, so their silhouette ends up just being a golden blob on the table. The sculptors just didn't know when to quit and it shows.
I wanted to say space marines in general as they have the highest number of ugly models, but as a percentage Custodes wins (or loses) out.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
vipoid wrote: I fear I couldn't bring myself to vote for Abaddon in this lineup.
There are certainly a lot of nice details on his model, which I appreciate. However, there are also a few things that really bug me:
- Something about his face rubs me the wrong way. Not sure what exactly, maybe because it vaguely reminds me of someone (can't think who though) or maybe because the excessively-bulky armour just makes the proportions look off.
- I absolutely can't stand his stupid top knot. I don't care if it was in some of his artwork - it looks like he has the entire Tower of Babel growing out of his head. This is probably more just a personal thing because so many DE heads are stuck with top knots and I hate every single one of them.
- Why does he need a trophy rack? If nothing else, can he seriously not afford to just pay someone to carry that crap around for him? I really hate GW's obsession in recent years with taking a perfectly good model and then just bolting more and more crap to it.
Luckily with new Abaddon you can easily leave off both the trophy rack and the topknot. Really a well done model as there's a lot to work with for customizing it to your taste.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/19 23:07:23
Like, I definitely agree they should be combined arms, and make that an important and viable way for them to function, not JUST big huge Gunda- uh - "Battlesuits", but… for me, the reason T'au are possibly my least favourite faction* is because they look too…um… I guess too sensible for the setting? For me, a whole lot of the fun and appeal of 40k is how stupid and over-the-top and 80s and maximalist and anachronistic it all is. This big bag of sci-fi tropes, medieval and renaissance history, Catholicism, the Western European literary canon, and post-Tolkien fantasy, stuffed into a giant blender, then satirized by way of 2000 A.D. and Alan Moore, then plugged into an amp stolen from Iron Maiden's bus by a drunken goth, then turned up to 11, then playing a weird 16th century English ballad on it.
T'au is pretty much the only army that don't really fit that vibe… except for stuff like the Riptides and Stormsurges, which feel like taking Japanese mecha and putting them through the blender/satire/amp.
That's just my own take, though. There's lots and lots of different angles from which to enjoy 40k. And I can definitely see the appeal for some people of T'au being "the one sane, reasonable dude with a pragmatic approach to conflict and warfare stuck in a model UN project with a group of bonkers, drunk, metalheads obsessed with Milton".
I can see what your getting at, but for me, if everything's a hyped up cocaine fever dream equivalent, then it all blends together, while having pockets of reasonable further point out how insane other elements are, which is more my speed. Over the top just doesn't work for me like it does for others, same for the folks who see a new model and just reply "so 40k" confuses me. speaking of over the top, wheres my artist slaanesh mini's and my dang guitars back? if anything should be said fever dream, it's Slaanesh. we have the enrapturess, but gimme more musical mayhem.
for me, the Tau looking sensible is part of their charm. the way their models look give off this kind of look that fits their nature of being isolated from the galaxy as well, with all that implies. my issue with the riptide and stormsurge is that while missiles for days is fun, an armless giant mech with anchorpoints doesn't read like the way tau actually function to make up for their limited forces but good tech normally as i see it. the Riptide and me... we've just never really gotten along, and personally im not a fan of such sizes of models anyway most of the time. I get they can be cool, but i just don't like things like knights much either. to then find out about the detailing of gundam models that have looks i really like (i favor the mono-eye types like zaku's) and the rates i saw them? made me even colder to them recently. i guess my dislike of most non-infantry models flares up for this one, since i also constantly see it. now i REALLY wish they had made them the airborne faction instead, because i could really get behind that.
it's not the model im most annoyed at in the 40k range. not by a long shot, but it is up there as of now. biggest dislikes still go to marines. also, i get folks not liking custodes... i actually like their look across nearly the whole range, but i don't care for the common colorations, and mechanically... i like to much gun to play them.
Yeah, I totally get where you're coming from and why you feel the way you do about it, Bdrone. It makes sense, just isn't my own sensibility. Just one of those different tastes kind of things!
Thankfully, T'au aren't going anywhere, nor are they gonna make everyone else look like T'au, so we both get to have our cake.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/19 23:36:13
***Bring back Battlefleet Gothic***
Nurgle may own my soul, but Slaanesh has my heart <3
My only complaint about the Custodes models is their feet are kinda big. Other than that they look exactly like what the Emperor's friendly bodyguards should look like. They should be over the top, fancy, and super killy all at once.
HAH! quite true on that one. despite all my other issues, this setting always manages to keep me watching it, as theres something to still at least vaguely interest me due to the scale. I do wonder whats next for the Tau and the GSC in particular at the minute...
thing is, PA is still ongoing, mayhaps they will get something in there. i know im waiting to see how Tau and Orks fair.. though maybe another model for this list will kick in.
Neutran Panzergrenadiers, 
Ostrakan Skitarii Legions, 
Order of the Silver Hand
Does that look hermaphroditic/androgynous ? Or supernaturally alluring? Or even something that could conceivably get you to drop your guard? You know what it looks like? A squad of Tarkatans from Mortal Kombat with crab pincers.
Children of Stirba 
