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"Degree of presentation in a primarily visual hobby" is such a subjective statement that trying to write a rule around it is a bridge too far for me. Sure, as a requirement for a painting competition a cohesion score of 1-5 could be useful but for application in anything but the most egregious cases is weird.

Again, if it is an issue of I can't tell what models are in what units/detachments sure, I can get on board. But if I field mono space wolves and have black, grey, powder blue and metallic blue models (because I enjoy experimenting with other colors, or want to represent my long fangs with a 30k aesthetic and primaris with new shiny armor and termies with traditional powder blue) that should be my choice and not subject to some nebulous "cohesive" army standard. Same with basing, my wolves can be running across snow fields while my termies are standing on teleportation pads while my long fangs have a more urban base.

All of that can look good together but since "make sure your army looks good" was too vague to codify in a rule we end up with this weird "coherent" which is just as subjective and hard to write a concrete rule around.

Better verbiage about the degree to which the models must be non-coherent would ease many of the issues that I have with the potential of the ruling. Words like reasonable, obviously, extreme, patently, do not belong with the other models in the detachment would have been helpful in the initial impression of the rule (IMHO).

I didn't think anyone would complain about this until reading how Byte felt about it and they seem like they would honestly take umbrage with my decisions.

TOs are free to do what they want but I still have yet to see an example of what this is curbing at any tournament I've gone to in 8th (at least 20) while I personally have models that could be impacted by this rule.

The moment of judgement is almost upon us though so we'll see if this rule was worth all of the fretting. I honestly doubt anyone will have anything to say about this at all. I'm more curious to see if Frontline goes through with the draconian threat to pull any of the non-approved "converted" models. But after some of the "fire raptors" at the first LVO I watched and other modeling/painting embarrassments I'm more in support of this rule than the "coherent" paint job rule.

Well, this kinda sucks.
I poured lots of work into making it 150% intuitive for my opponent to visually distinguish my army;
I play Infantry Spam Webway Drop Aeldari.

I have a Detach of Craftworlds, a Detach of Drukhari and a Detach of Ynnari, for example, at the last Alliance Open in Bremen.
Inside the Craftworld Detachment, every Unit is painted to a high standard - but each in a unique Scheme. 20 Guardians are painted Iyanden; 20 Guardians are painted Biel Tan. 10 Rangers are painted Alaitoc, 10 Rangers are painted Biel Tan;
Inside the Drukhari Detachment, every unit is painted to a high standard - each in a unique Scheme; 20 Warriors in red with Lions Cloaks fully converted, with special weapons marked out with Yellow Highlights and Heavies with Whites;
20 Warriors in dark Blue all with blank white Helmets. 10 Warriors in greenish blue with Dragonskincloaks converted from Dark Elves Corsairs.
Inside the Ynnari Detachment, I have all Reborn Drukhari modelled as Corsairs with the correct weaponry. But one squad is all the Colours of the Rainbow; one Suad is proper Voiddragon scheme, and one squad is skyblue with yellow wings.

All the Models are 150% distinguishable, and all the squads are 150% distinguishable,
I have done this over the course of years, for the sake of my opponent and me being able to look at the table and tell units apart trivially, without any chance of confusion ever.

If I drop in a 9" perimeter 4 squads of 20 Infantry each, and all would be painted in the same paint scheme, neatly lined up, even with squadmarkings, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to tell at a glance where one unit ends and another begins!


I'm really sad right now :-( I always did enjoy running for best painted :-(

I haven't seen any buzz about units getting pulled. Seems everybody was in order

 Stevefamine wrote:
I for one look forward to 40k tournaments to start looking better than Warmahordes at top tables.

That's not a high bar (or even a low one). As warmachine went on, it became littered with 'terrain' consisting of small felt squares and empty bases as placeholders for model position, as various miniatures had too many overhanging protrusions to be placed base to base.
And that was at official events!

The flat/2d terrain kind of worked in WarmaHordes though, because the rules for them were so clearly defined. Don't get me wrong, I prefer 3d terrain, but having an area of 'hill' that was flat just so you didn't have to worry about the falling over problem for models was nice.

The placeholder bases though was a problem, but it's not like everything was played that way (empty bases for everything).

I agree though it's not a high bar to bet better than the tournament focussed setup where all you had to be was built and have enough markings on a base to denote facing. At least visually speaking.

Sure, if you mean 'worked' as in 'fulfilled the minimum utility function of the rules.'

If you mean 'worked' as in 'made for a visually impressive and fun game,' not so much.

Personally I consider it a rules problem if actual terrain and models are a barrier to rules working correctly.
Even before the flop of Mk3, WM lost me when a Press Ganger turned up and converted the local scene into felt, lots of technical rules 'gotchas' and timed games to practice for tournaments that no one had previously cared about.
There really wasn't a game left under all the precision and rote memorization of obscure tricks.

I think long War said it best. ITC used to be filled with people who used popsickle sticks and glue for riprides, or in the case of team happy, dollar store crocodiles for rough riders. Which was crap and we can do better. If we want to continue the trend of being successful and becomming less of a nische hobby but more main stream, this is a good rule.

 archont wrote:
Well, this kinda sucks.
I poured lots of work into making it 150% intuitive for my opponent to visually distinguish my army;
I play Infantry Spam Webway Drop Aeldari.

Spoiler:

I have a Detach of Craftworlds, a Detach of Drukhari and a Detach of Ynnari, for example, at the last Alliance Open in Bremen.
Inside the Craftworld Detachment, every Unit is painted to a high standard - but each in a unique Scheme. 20 Guardians are painted Iyanden; 20 Guardians are painted Biel Tan. 10 Rangers are painted Alaitoc, 10 Rangers are painted Biel Tan;
Inside the Drukhari Detachment, every unit is painted to a high standard - each in a unique Scheme; 20 Warriors in red with Lions Cloaks fully converted, with special weapons marked out with Yellow Highlights and Heavies with Whites;
20 Warriors in dark Blue all with blank white Helmets. 10 Warriors in greenish blue with Dragonskincloaks converted from Dark Elves Corsairs.
Inside the Ynnari Detachment, I have all Reborn Drukhari modelled as Corsairs with the correct weaponry. But one squad is all the Colours of the Rainbow; one Suad is proper Voiddragon scheme, and one squad is skyblue with yellow wings.

All the Models are 150% distinguishable, and all the squads are 150% distinguishable,
I have done this over the course of years, for the sake of my opponent and me being able to look at the table and tell units apart trivially, without any chance of confusion ever.

If I drop in a 9" perimeter 4 squads of 20 Infantry each, and all would be painted in the same paint scheme, neatly lined up, even with squadmarkings, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to tell at a glance where one unit ends and another begins!

I'm really sad right now :-( I always did enjoy running for best painted :-(

I'm not a judge, but if everything is as you described, then I think you'd be fine. Given that none of the aspect warriors have cohesive scheme, DRs are black, FDs are orange and yellow, HBs bone with bad pharmacy bottle hair dye, SS are all green ....

Just DAs and guardians maybe being cohesive.

Post some pix! Here on the thread. Let's see. If nothing else, you get to show off nice models.

Remember, rule of cool applies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Byte wrote:
I haven't seen any buzz about units getting pulled. Seems everybody was in order

Reece stated on the stream that models were pulled.

Any chance of a reputable - or, at least, independent - source, Brothererekose?

 Brothererekose wrote:

 archont wrote:
Well, this kinda sucks.
....

Post some pix! Here on the thread. Let's see. If nothing else, you get to show off nice models.

Remember, rule of cool applies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Byte wrote:
I haven't seen any buzz about units getting pulled. Seems everybody was in order

Reece stated on the stream that models were pulled.

I don't wanna derail the thread, I stopped taking photos of my stuff some ten years ago, but if you click into my dakka gallery, you'll get the gist of the idea of the standard to which my Infantry ( more than 200 today ) are painted;


there's some more stuff in my gallery - though I do plan on taking some pics eventually ( I keep postponing it for a more professional session with a photographer, and for that purpose I want custom display boards for each unit, which I have gotten some work done on, but am not finished with ... :-D )

I would hope that the spirit of my Army and Eldar would make it okay to field such an Army,
but as it is written; I had a very deep panging sting in my chest, knowing that my Army fits ad verbatim the words of what is NOT permissible. :-( :-S

 Dysartes wrote:
Any chance of a reputable - or, at least, independent - source, Brothererekose?

I'd think the guy running the largest 40k event in the world would be considered reputable but for independent support I noted more than few "t-fires" being pulled as well as other not up to snuff conversions that weren't pre approved. Painting wise I think most people got kinda anal because it because they made it such an issue. I didn't see a single army that didn't meet the requirements and I probably randomly looked at at least 50% of the field. Which last year with 200 less players would not have been the case.

 archont wrote:
I would hope that the spirit of my Army and Eldar would make it okay to field such an Army,
but as it is written; I had a very deep panging sting in my chest, knowing that my Army fits ad verbatim the words of what is NOT permissible. :-( :-S

Holy, potatoes! Your stuff is so good. My wraithknight looks ... well, yours is better. And I paid $125 to have mine done by a guy who won a BAO best painted. I love your Baron Sathonyx.

Addressing your concerns. I think you'd be fine. Your green white Dire Avengers & guardians would be one battlalion, say Alaitoc. Your aspect warriors, the FDs, Striking S, DRs, all those, with the red & black scheme, simply another battalion.

Then given the multicolor themes on your vehicles, there'd certianly be no "borrow hammer" to say at all. Rool of AMAZINGLY cool.



Any judge that would pull any of your stuff would run the risk of getting put in a dumpster. I'm only 125 pounds, but I'd find the motivation (and bigger nerds) to help me do it.

Seriously, the green & white dudes in one detachment and the black and reds in the other. The vehicles likelier, with the B&R.

Any of you nerds *not* checking out his gallery need to do so. The WK, the elvish dioramas ....

...

Any one got a cigarette?