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Sorry for asking so many questions.

Building 2-3 forces at once as I return to 40k.

One way of building a bit quicker to 2k points would be Knights(eldar knight in particular) and a Baneblade for my AM.

Are they considered a bit silly at 1/5k or 2k points or perfectly ok?



Bare in mind im focused on at home, casual games with friends just wanting to enjoy rolling some dice and shooting each other at 40k.

A single super heavy at 2k really isn’t to bad most armies can still handle it, though you may want to warn people so their list can deal with it.

If your IG army has baneblade and his army has one wraithknight, you should be fine at 2k, but I'd probably skip them at 1500 because they make the game pretty one-dimensional.

If you are building new armies, you should probably first aim to get to 2000 points without any Lords of War, and then add them. In my experience, those kinds of units tend to dominate list building and tactical decisions, essentially giving you the same game over and over again.

 Jidmah wrote:
If your IG army has baneblade and his army has one wraithknight, you should be fine at 2k, but I'd probably skip them at 1500 because they make the game pretty one-dimensional.

If you are building new armies, you should probably first aim to get to 2000 points without any Lords of War, and then add them. In my experience, those kinds of units tend to dominate list building and tactical decisions, essentially giving you the same game over and over again.

Fair enough thanks.

Building AM and Eldar lists and thought it might be an idea to have eldar Wraithknight(is that the right name) and an AM Baneblade facing each other at 2k......other stuff as normal(or stick an imperial knight in, instead of the Baneblade)

VAYASEN wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
If your IG army has baneblade and his army has one wraithknight, you should be fine at 2k, but I'd probably skip them at 1500 because they make the game pretty one-dimensional.

If you are building new armies, you should probably first aim to get to 2000 points without any Lords of War, and then add them. In my experience, those kinds of units tend to dominate list building and tactical decisions, essentially giving you the same game over and over again.

Fair enough thanks.

Building AM and Eldar lists and thought it might be an idea to have eldar Wraithknight(is that the right name) and an AM Baneblade facing each other at 2k......other stuff as normal(or stick an imperial knight in, instead of the Baneblade)

Both works, just try to not include any of the really big things like a castellan.

As for warning them, I suggest asking people whether they are fine with facing a super-heavy in general instead of announcing each time you bring one. Otherwise, you will run into armies explicitly tailored to take out your super-heavy ASAP, which will not make for a fun game. If you leave them guessing whether the knight/baneblade actually show up, they can prepare for it without being able to tailor.
In my group some people have told me they have no issue with Mortarion, while others told me that they would rather not see him across the table, or they inform me before a game that they plan on running an army that will not be able to handle him. I respect that, and still get plenty of play out of the big guy without ruining anyone's day.

 Jidmah wrote:

VAYASEN wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
If your IG army has baneblade and his army has one wraithknight, you should be fine at 2k, but I'd probably skip them at 1500 because they make the game pretty one-dimensional.

If you are building new armies, you should probably first aim to get to 2000 points without any Lords of War, and then add them. In my experience, those kinds of units tend to dominate list building and tactical decisions, essentially giving you the same game over and over again.

Fair enough thanks.

Building AM and Eldar lists and thought it might be an idea to have eldar Wraithknight(is that the right name) and an AM Baneblade facing each other at 2k......other stuff as normal(or stick an imperial knight in, instead of the Baneblade)

Both works, just try to not include any of the really big things like a castellan.

As for warning them, I suggest asking people whether they are fine with facing a super-heavy in general instead of announcing each time you bring one. Otherwise, you will run into armies explicitly tailored to take out your super-heavy ASAP, which will not make for a fun game. If you leave them guessing whether the knight/baneblade actually show up, they can prepare for it without being able to tailor.
In my group some people have told me they have no issue with Mortarion, while others told me that they would rather not see him across the table, or they inform me before a game that they plan on running an army that will not be able to handle him. I respect that, and still get plenty of play out of the big guy without ruining anyone's day.

That is a great way of handling the super heavies, you are doing your best to ensure that both players are going to have a fun game. We had a local escalation league going and some of the people at sub 1k games were dropping Morty and then as soon as they had the points Magnus both in like 1250 games. It pretty much killed the league, I was really glad I was to busy to participate.

As most of my games will be using my own forces against each other.....will the Eldar using a Knight and the Imperials using a Baneblade/knight be ok then?

The other stuff will be all general stuff. Want the game to be fun.

As others said I don't think one at 2K is too much of a issue but defo worth communicating with your opponent

VAYASEN wrote:
As most of my games will be using my own forces against each other.....will the Eldar using a Knight and the Imperials using a Baneblade/knight be ok then?

The other stuff will be all general stuff. Want the game to be fun.

Neither super-heavy is hard to kill nor overly powerful, so that is not an issue. If you like the models, go for them.
I just wanted to provide a warning that when you tie up a lot of points in one model, the games tend to play very similar. From the experience with my Death Guard and Mortarion, I'm very glad I didn't include him in my first 2000 points, as I really don't want to play him every game as he forces my to play in a certain way and allows less tactical freedom.

 Jidmah wrote:

VAYASEN wrote:
As most of my games will be using my own forces against each other.....will the Eldar using a Knight and the Imperials using a Baneblade/knight be ok then?

The other stuff will be all general stuff. Want the game to be fun.

Neither super-heavy is hard to kill nor overly powerful, so that is not an issue. If you like the models, go for them.
I just wanted to provide a warning that when you tie up a lot of points in one model, the games tend to play very similar. From the experience with my Death Guard and Mortarion, I'm very glad I didn't include him in my first 2000 points, as I really don't want to play him every game as he forces my to play in a certain way and allows less tactical freedom.

No problem. We wont play that often I think(im just going crazy collecting 2-4 armies) and I can introduce other units to make 2k if I feel its a bit samey after battle or 3.

So long as an Eldar knight and a Baneblade or a Imp knight on opposing sides at 2k is a good fight and not ruined...I can live with that.

I envisage the 2 Sheavies tearing bits of each other while the other forces fight. Im sure it wont be anything like that tho hehe

VAYASEN wrote:
Sorry for asking so many questions.

Building 2-3 forces at once as I return to 40k.

One way of building a bit quicker to 2k points would be Knights(eldar knight in particular) and a Baneblade for my AM.

Are they considered a bit silly at 1/5k or 2k points or perfectly ok?



Bare in mind im focused on at home, casual games with friends just wanting to enjoy rolling some dice and shooting each other at 40k.

No. Like, it's 2k. It's pretty standard to see knights.

I'd be hesitant to go more, though, because that's kind of putting a lot of your eggs in one basket.

No, if it fits, it sits. Next question.

Welcome back to the hobby VAYASEN!

It used to be that Super Heavies were really an "Apocalypse Game Only!" type unit. Since then, they've been creeping into 40k more and more until now, in 8th, they are a very common sight at the table. So much so that the rules of the game and points values are really written with them in mind. Indeed, many Super Heavies are highly over-costed, and provide few benefits over swarms of small models.

In the past it used to be that many armies had no ways of dealing with a super heavy other than hoping for lucky Lascannon hits. In 8th, even a Grot can possibly remove a wound from an Emperor Titan. In fact, certain very inexpensive models (Slamguinius, or a White Scars Smash Captain) can possibly fell such a model all by themselves in a single turn of close combat, for not even 150 points. Super Heavies are, in many ways, very balanced units.

I still wouldn't recommend an army of just them, unless you plan to play mostly in tournaments. If not dealt with early, a trio of super heavies can come to dominate a game. Fine for tournaments, but quickly boring for beer and pretzels matches.

I wouldn't mind. But I would probably prefer to be told up front if it's a T8 baddie if it was a casual game, in case I was planning to bring Kroot

Nothing sucks more than having a horde of S4 weapons against a T8 model with a bajillion wounds.

VAYASEN wrote:
As most of my games will be using my own forces against each other.....will the Eldar using a Knight and the Imperials using a Baneblade/knight be ok then?

The other stuff will be all general stuff. Want the game to be fun.

As you can guarantee that the forces will be able to deal with the other sides "big thing" , yes, you'll be fine.

Related question:

Would a unit of Armiger Knights be considered in less bad taste for smaller games?

I've recentlycompleted a 2k AdMech army, and it includes a super-heavy auxiliary unit of three armiger warglaives with meltas and wondering if they'd bother people in 1500 point games as much as something like a Crusader or Castellan would (what with all the restoring-wounds we can do). In addition to being smaller and easier to kill, they also tend to sally forth far away from the tech-priests.

apparently BTW the eldar wraith knight is a bit over costed right now, assuming CA 2019 hasn't fixed it

Given the choice in the 1000 point games we play locally, I'd rather try to kill a couple of knights than try to handle 7 Leman Russes with a few guard squads acting as speed-bumps.

I have been tabled 4 out of 6 games with my Knight army.

Maybe I'm just in a very competitive community.

Granted those games were IH, RG, Eldar soup, and another Knight list.

BrianDavion wrote:
apparently BTW the eldar wraith knight is a bit over costed right now, assuming CA 2019 hasn't fixed it

It got a drop just like most low. Cheapest build is now 330.

On topic I wouldn't worry about bringing a low to a 2000 and up game but for anything less I'd definitely discuss it with my opponent.

Entirely dependent on the situation.

Playing competitively? Probably common and accepted.

Everyone else doing it? Probably common and accepted.

Playing in a narrative group and find you're the only person doing it? May be bad form.

Playing a new player whose army consists of starter box models? Dick move, unless they ask for an ass-beating.

etc.

The internet can't tell you. Also, if you're concerned, bring options - and lead with that info when you ask a stranger for a game. "Hey man I've got a list with a couple of Knights I wanted to try, you think that'll work with your army?" etc.

nataliereed1984 wrote:
Related question:

Would a unit of Armiger Knights be considered in less bad taste for smaller games?

I've recentlycompleted a 2k AdMech army, and it includes a super-heavy auxiliary unit of three armiger warglaives with meltas and wondering if they'd bother people in 1500 point games as much as something like a Crusader or Castellan would (what with all the restoring-wounds we can do). In addition to being smaller and easier to kill, they also tend to sally forth far away from the tech-priests.

Armingers/Helverines/Wardogs are in the same weight class as a LRBT, predators or other battle tanks. No one should have a problem with those, especially not with armingers.

Super heavies can tend to lead to very one sided fights, either direction. If they can deal with them, you get smashed and have less numerous forces to try and recover. Taking a super heavy can be as much of problem for you as it will be for your opponent.

Like going with the quantity has a quality all its own mentality, for guard, large numbers of russ tanks can be more of a problem due to similar points actually being stretched over more targets, harder to tie up and more wounds per points spent for similar toughness.

Baneblades hit hard, but its one target that isn't any tougher than a Russ. Which is an issue, they don't really give you much aside from a potent main gun and rule of cool.

So no, should be fine if you're making these as two forces to fight each other. Hope it goes well and you can mix and match as you see fit.

As the lone non-superheavy player in my group (running precodex Sisters for years), I leaned on the rule of "I'll play anything once," which allowed my buddies to get their knights on the table but meant I didn't have to face one every game. We play 2k semi-competitive, and I've faced everyone's big centerpiece model once or twice. We also cook up some narrative games around the big stuff... bring a Baneblade, but attach extra victory conditions to it specifically because it's the reason for the mission and the other army has orders to destroy your most powerful asset at whatever cost, etc.

 Jidmah wrote:

VAYASEN wrote:
As most of my games will be using my own forces against each other.....will the Eldar using a Knight and the Imperials using a Baneblade/knight be ok then?

The other stuff will be all general stuff. Want the game to be fun.

Neither super-heavy is hard to kill nor overly powerful, so that is not an issue. If you like the models, go for them.
I just wanted to provide a warning that when you tie up a lot of points in one model, the games tend to play very similar. From the experience with my Death Guard and Mortarion, I'm very glad I didn't include him in my first 2000 points, as I really don't want to play him every game as he forces my to play in a certain way and allows less tactical freedom.

They're not that powerful in tournament level games but OP said he's playing casual. We have a casual group and there are a few baneblades floating around in the group that don't get used because they just aren't fun to play in casual games without some sort of advanced warning. Same goes for knights.

I think this is more of a problem of an unwillingness to adapt to 8th edition than a problem of casual play.
If you don't bring sufficient anti-tank to handle one baneblade, one knight or one wraithknight, how are you going to handle a squadon of LRBT? A morkanauts, greater daemons or executioners? A trio of eldar flieres? A daemon engine list?

I have delivered multiple curb-stomps with my DG list because I focused on drones, PBC with entropy cannons and myphitic blight haulers, simply because people were still locked in 3-7th mindset where a unit with melta guns and two or three lascannons were considered a decent amount of anit-tank. If you can't handle one of smaller LoW, any vehicle/monster list will ruin your game.

Mind you "handle" doesn't mean than you 100-0% the LoW in one round of shooting, but you should be able to take it out over the course of two or three turns.

Well, the answer is the Lanchester square law.
If you double the number of tanks, the enemy has to fourfold the anti-tank weapons.
This law has been heavily used in WW II.
Just google it.

I think if your opponent know you're bringing knights then they're absolutely fine for casual play. Fun even, it's great trying to bring down the huge stomping death machines. As long as you play with a decent amount of line of sight blocking terrain.

They're only a problem if people are expecting a TAC list and get knights instead.

I run a single TITANIC knight with 6 War Dogs at 1500 points. That was a deliberate choice despite the CP deficit.

I will always run my Stompa, no matter how many people claim its unbalanced. Even in 1.5k.