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Hey all,

Just getting into Necromunda and there's a lot to process. This question is about the Seismic weapon special rule.

It says "If the target of a Seismic attack is active, they are always pinned - even if they have an ability that would normally allow them to avoid being pinned by ranged attacks."

With the Palatine concussive blaster, does this mean all they have to do is target you and you are pinned, even if the blast scatters off the original target? What about shots from this that target a point on the board but don't target an enemy? Do they still benefit from the Seismic rule?

I would assume the attack would have to hit. Only models under the blast affected etc. Might be a good one to send in to the rules team (ask on FB etc)

drbored wrote:
Hey all,

Just getting into Necromunda and there's a lot to process. This question is about the Seismic weapon special rule.

It says "If the target of a Seismic attack is active, they are always pinned - even if they have an ability that would normally allow them to avoid being pinned by ranged attacks."

With the Palatine concussive blaster, does this mean all they have to do is target you and you are pinned, even if the blast scatters off the original target? What about shots from this that target a point on the board but don't target an enemy? Do they still benefit from the Seismic rule?

If you miss with an attack, you stop at Step 3 (Make the Hit Roll) and nothing happens.
You have to get to Step 4 (Target is Pinned) in order for the Seimic rule to apply.

Same answer for the Concussion Carbine. The only difference for Blast weapons is that the Blast rules specify that something may happen after you miss. The sloppiness in the rules writing (a blast can hit things you didn't target, but too many of the rules assume you can only hit what you targeted) is pretty common.

Disclaimer: There may be a FAQ not aware of yet that says that the effects of Seismic can only be applied to the single model targeted by the attack. But that would make putting Blast on the weapon half-pointless, so... 'Anything you manage to hit (the enemy, your friendly, yourself), you pin' is the reasonable conclusion.

 solkan wrote:

drbored wrote:
Hey all,

Just getting into Necromunda and there's a lot to process. This question is about the Seismic weapon special rule.

It says "If the target of a Seismic attack is active, they are always pinned - even if they have an ability that would normally allow them to avoid being pinned by ranged attacks."

With the Palatine concussive blaster, does this mean all they have to do is target you and you are pinned, even if the blast scatters off the original target? What about shots from this that target a point on the board but don't target an enemy? Do they still benefit from the Seismic rule?

If you miss with an attack, you stop at Step 3 (Make the Hit Roll) and nothing happens.
You have to get to Step 4 (Target is Pinned) in order for the Seimic rule to apply.

Same answer for the Concussion Carbine. The only difference for Blast weapons is that the Blast rules specify that something may happen after you miss. The sloppiness in the rules writing (a blast can hit things you didn't target, but too many of the rules assume you can only hit what you targeted) is pretty common.

Disclaimer: There may be a FAQ not aware of yet that says that the effects of Seismic can only be applied to the single model targeted by the attack. But that would make putting Blast on the weapon half-pointless, so... 'Anything you manage to hit (the enemy, your friendly, yourself), you pin' is the reasonable conclusion.

Thanks much! Yeah, the wording in the Seismic rule is what's troublesome. The loose use of 'target' (which is actually very clearly defined in 40k and kill team) is causing some headaches.

I checked the FAQ and nothing about the Seismic rule in regards to blast weapons. The easy assumption is that it should be things under the blast, but my friend is saying that you would pin only what you target but not anything else? Like, in some ways it's better to just let the blast location determine what you pin, but he wants to be able to auto-pin what he targets and then if the blast happens to hit other things, I guess they'll be pinned normally but not with the seismic rule? It's really not a great argument to be having when we're just getting started in the game

Nah. I tried looking on another forum for discussions, and the argument that, in spite of all of the other errors that GW has made with the rules, they meant for Seismic to completely ignore the entire attack sequence and just automatically pin the target is something I have to disagree with.

“I want a weapon that automatically pins whoever I point it at” is a really nice motivation for someone to have, and best answered with “No.”

 solkan wrote:
Nah. I tried looking on another forum for discussions, and the argument that, in spite of all of the other errors that GW has made with the rules, they meant for Seismic to completely ignore the entire attack sequence and just automatically pin the target is something I have to disagree with.

“I want a weapon that automatically pins whoever I point it at” is a really nice motivation for someone to have, and best answered with “No.”

And yet my friends argument that whoever you target (whoever is initially under the blast) is afflicted by seismic but wherever the blast scatters to is not. :/

This has been discussed ever since Seismic came out. No FAQ/Errata has addressed it so far. Seems the main goal is to counter Nerves Of Steel skill, which makes it a very niche trait. Keep in mind some fighters cannot be pinned and will still be immune to seismic, like the chaos spawn, which can't crawl or stand up, so pinning it would effectively take it out of action.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

drbored wrote:

 solkan wrote:
Nah. I tried looking on another forum for discussions, and the argument that, in spite of all of the other errors that GW has made with the rules, they meant for Seismic to completely ignore the entire attack sequence and just automatically pin the target is something I have to disagree with.

“I want a weapon that automatically pins whoever I point it at” is a really nice motivation for someone to have, and best answered with “No.”

And yet my friends argument that whoever you target (whoever is initially under the blast) is afflicted by seismic but wherever the blast scatters to is not. :/

That was my initial interpretation too, but in afterthought that is silly (in my opinion) and breaks logic and core game mechanics.

Ya, this is a rather silly issue. The problem, I see, is that (barring blast weapons) the pinning from simply being shot AT makes sense...it's a weapon that causes general upheaval at near the target even if the shot doesn't "hit" them. Thus they fall regardless.

The problem is with blast weapons. Either the Seismic trait triggers on the target...and if it scatters off it doesn't trigger on the new targets (they are still "hit" though). So if you target someone with a concussion rifle they are pinned then it scatters and hits someone else with Nerves of Steel they would still get to roll? It's beyond strange that no FAQ has come out after all this time...it's also unclear how to rule as an arbitrator.