Pretty interesting data when you take a look at 40k stats.

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**Karol**

But this is for big events only. Sure at youth championship level of wrestling, the top of the world in my age bracked would choke me out. Specialy those crazy Caucasians, those are beasts on the mat. But on a district level, if your bigger and stronger you just win.

So yeah someone with a just as good army, and better skill will traunce someone with a good list and little tournament expiriance. Hey they can win through a disqualification, no take backs or specific tournament rule, that isn't used outside of tournaments an unskilled guy just forgets about. But in a store tournament, a tooled up IH army works over everyone.

**Daedalus81**

AngryAngel80 wrote:
While I agree with that, in part, I'd also say such is much harder in Warhammer. As any reasonably skilled player will see when you're getting into an advantageous position. If you can't understand that, you hardly need to be playing mind games against them.

What may be an obvious advantageous position ignores the play that gets you a better position for the later turns when you're eeking out with scraps.

**Yoyoyo**

AngryAngel80 wrote:
While I agree with that, in part, I'd also say such is much harder in Warhammer. As any reasonably skilled player will see when you're getting into an advantageous position. If you can't understand that, you hardly need to be playing mind games against them.

Well, there's what is known as a gambit in chess. Which is where you offer to sacrifice material for a more advantageous position. If you've ever been in the position of 'should I or shouldn't I' you will understand that psychology definitely plays a major part of this. Because usually the gambit is offered for a reason.

Same thing in 40k -- the equivalent is the "distraction carnifex", or bottling up an army with a sacrificial unit to destroy their chance to score. Good players will understand the value of bait and positioning much better than lesser ones, beause they'll have a better sense of the tempo needed to outscore their opponent vis-a-vis force preservation.

I think there's definitely a skill floor to certain armies; that's something that's almost never accounted for in these online discussions. No doubt IH is strong but it's also very simple and resilient, and thus generally more forgiving. Tau might also be very strong but what's the skill floor to play the army effectively at the top 4? I personally don't think every army should be equally easy to pilot and that's probably required if you're looking for perfect stats across every faction.

**Daedalus81**

Yoyoyo wrote:
AngryAngel80 wrote:
While I agree with that, in part, I'd also say such is much harder in Warhammer. As any reasonably skilled player will see when you're getting into an advantageous position. If you can't understand that, you hardly need to be playing mind games against them.

Well, there's what is known as a gambit in chess. Which is where you offer to sacrifice material for a more advantageous position. If you've ever been in the position of 'should I or shouldn't I' you will understand that psychology definitely plays a major part of this. Because usually the gambit is offered for a reason.

Same thing in 40k -- the equivalent is the "distraction carnifex", or bottling up an army with a sacrificial unit to destroy their chance to score. Good players will understand the value of bait and positioning much better than lesser ones, beause they'll have a better sense of the tempo needed to outscore their opponent vis-a-vis force preservation.

I think there's definitely a skill floor to certain armies; that's something that's almost never accounted for in these online discussions. No doubt IH is strong but it's also very simple and resilient, and thus generally more forgiving. Tau might also be very strong but what's the skill floor to play the army effectively at the top 4? I personally don't think every army should be equally easy to pilot and that's probably required if you're looking for perfect stats across every faction.

Very much this.

**Insectum7**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Yoyoyo wrote:
AngryAngel80 wrote:
While I agree with that, in part, I'd also say such is much harder in Warhammer. As any reasonably skilled player will see when you're getting into an advantageous position. If you can't understand that, you hardly need to be playing mind games against them.

Well, there's what is known as a gambit in chess. Which is where you offer to sacrifice material for a more advantageous position. If you've ever been in the position of 'should I or shouldn't I' you will understand that psychology definitely plays a major part of this. Because usually the gambit is offered for a reason.

Same thing in 40k -- the equivalent is the "distraction carnifex", or bottling up an army with a sacrificial unit to destroy their chance to score. Good players will understand the value of bait and positioning much better than lesser ones, beause they'll have a better sense of the tempo needed to outscore their opponent vis-a-vis force preservation.

I think there's definitely a skill floor to certain armies; that's something that's almost never accounted for in these online discussions. No doubt IH is strong but it's also very simple and resilient, and thus generally more forgiving. Tau might also be very strong but what's the skill floor to play the army effectively at the top 4? I personally don't think every army should be equally easy to pilot and that's probably required if you're looking for perfect stats across every faction.

Very much this.

Seconded.

**Xenomancers**

Nitro Zeus wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
LOL hilarious. You have 0 grounds to say anything about my play because you've never seen me play. With the arrogance to say I don't understand what I am talking about when it's obvious to everyone in here that I know what I am talking about.

It's beyond obvious that you don't, and many people have called that for exactly what it is. At best, you'll find people on this forum with a similar level of expertise who may agree with you, like Peregrine, Wayniac, and other dedicated neg-heads. This isn't a popularity contest in the first place, but even if it was, you wouldn't be winning it, so please stop trying to act like you're the people's champ or something. People are mocking this thread on multiple different sites including reddit and both of the 40k discords. That's actually how I found this thread in the first place, it was linked in open discussion about how 'dakka has truly outdone itself again'. Please call me on this, because I'd love an excuse to screenshot even some of the stuff that was said about this thread. You made it into being a meme even further than this site, which is impressive.

Xenomancers wrote:
Why do the same players consistently top events? The answer is simple. They are always playing the best army. IH(or some marine variant) or Eldar at this time...which is completely backed up by statistics AND they are the most serious players that travel around the country playing in the events because they are going for top player. Plenty of good players don't have the means to travel the country for events every weekend. Lots of good players have no desire to do that ether. Not to say that the consistent top players aren't the best - it's just the difference between them and a random ITC player with the same list is very small.

So let's use this for an example, a large tournament that wasn't widely publicised, so thus isn't one of the events that made these people recognisable names. Battle for Salvation, one of the first large tournaments after the Iron Hands supplement released. 100 or so players, a feth TON of Aeldari, Iron Hands, and Raven Guard. Very similar lists within many of them. By your reasoning, that's a lot of people all with an equal shot at the throne, nothing is holding them back, they are at the event, they have the top armies, and they are competent players.

Yet, look at the top 4.

Nicholas Rose, Mark Hertel, Andrew Gonyo, and Sean Nayden.

Why was it these very familiar names who were able to place again, and not any of the other 100 players ALL present? It wasn't a travel issue, they were all there. It wasn't a playtime issue, the dex was brand new.

How did Richard Sieglar go undefeated with Tau for literally months, travelling to different GT's weekly, and eventually winning NOVA, while other Tau players couldn't even get close to a 50% win rate? How did Don Hooson win BAO with Death Guard, an army seen as uncompetitive? How come none of the copycats of his Purge builds were ever able to see the success he was able to see with it? How is Sean Nayden consistently able to win at the highest level while using gak like Avatar of Khaine and other stuff? I could rattle off examples for ages.

Just because you aren't at a level where you understand where the skill is, doesn't mean that people who do understand it are "egotistical" and "inventing it". If you had half the competitive understanding you think you do, this thread wouldn't exist.

Xenomancers wrote:
It seems I have struck a chord with you. You must think you are a pretty amazing player and need to be recognized for it. I'll concede to you. Your 40k skills are so far ahead of mine I couldn't possibly beat you in a game with an Ironhands list. LOL. Get out of here dude.

I literally (not figuratively, not interpretatively, not metaphorically) called myself a bad player at two points in the post you just quoted. I recognise that I have so much room to improve, and that's what I strive to do as a player. Now while I also recognise that it's true you likely are at your peak, that's because your capacity for improvement capped at an extremely low altitude due to your lack of willingness to broaden your understanding of this game, and work out how exactly people are winning consistently. This isn't about "me being good", nothing in my post even implies that, it's about you having the least competitive attitude possible.

Xenomancers wrote:
You ever seen a poll about what % skill plays in this game?

Why would I... give a gak? You ever collected people who actually understand the game at the highest level rather than the lowest, and polled them? Chess grandmasters say the game requires skill, but you took a poll of the playground and your whole class believes otherwise. Good for you.

Please stop using these 'majority rules' argument, it's so stereotypically obtuse that it hurts to read.

Wanna know an interesting fact of statistics? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisdom_of_the_crowd
A poll on dakka is comprised of many of the most knowledgeable people on the subject too. Also - I am pretty sure a lot of those really top players are using loaded dice...because they don't control for it. Last year I think Nayden won 46 consecutive games. The only way to do that in a dice game is to cheat. Even at local tournaments I have caught cheaters. It is usually the ones traveling to attend tournaments. To never lose a game of 40k all you need is 1 dice that always rolls the number you want. Hate to be "that guy" but until they control for dice in tournaments it is going to happen. Id say the overwhelming majority of people would never consider so it doesn't sway statistics much but money is on the line for a lot of these players. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out that a lot of the top players use loaded dice...Heck...This happens in basically every competitive sport...why would this one be any different? For 40k the best skill might actually be hiding the fact you lose your loaded dice...when to use it and such. If playing Ironhands for example...you might never even need to use it - as you are basically never behind in the game.

I as a good player that plays 10 or more games a month...I know about every 10-15 games or so you are going to have a game where you roll so poorly you automatically lose. Sometimes you will have a streak of going last in 4-5 consecutive games...You aren't winning all those games ether - no mater how good your list is.

**Crimson**

Oh boy, so now Xeno is accusing top players of cheating! This is a new low.

Xeno, newsflash; you are not a good player, and those other people do not do well because they cheat, they do well because they know how to play.

**Xenomancers**

Crimson wrote:
Oh boy, so now Xeno is accusing top players of cheating! This is a new low.

Xeno, newsflash; you are not a good player, and those other people do not do well because they cheat, they do well because they know how to play.

It's really not a new low. Do you really think people wouldn't cheat to bring home price money? Or gain subscribers to their podcast? Get off your high horse. Anyways - I am not suggesting they are all cheating just that it is possible that they are. It might not even be intentional. Some dice just roll better than others. It is widely known that dice are not perfect. Play with enough dice you just get attached to certain sets. I for example have 3 sets of cheesex dice which I love. Legally purchased and they roll incredible without alteration. Is that cheating? No...I bought dice and I roll them without alteration. Is it fair? Not really because it is an advantage. All ITC tournaments should probably require you use house dice. Then their would be no question. Just keep thinking there are no cheaters in the world though and see how that works for you.

Please find me a competitive sport where cheating doesn't occur?

**An Actual Englishman**

Many, many top players use that iPhone warhammer dice app for their games (I can't remember the name because I couldn't get it on my android device). I doubt they have a rigged version in their possession.

I have to be honest - I think this thread was very dubiously created in the first place and has only devolved into off topic ramble at this point.

December statistics, as interesting as they are, represent a tiny snapshot of the meta in a very odd place (because there are fewer large games, the stakes are lower and most players don't have time to play). Perhaps for a better read on the meta we should continue to follow 40k stats centre and see what the next few months brings?

Xenomancers wrote:
I for example have 3 sets of cheesex dice which I love. Legally purchased and they roll incredible without alteration. Is that cheating?

Yes. This kinda sounds like cheating.

**Xenomancers**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Many, many top players use that iPhone warhammer dice app for their games (I can't remember the name because I couldn't get it on my android device). I doubt they have a rigged version in their possession.

I have to be honest - I think this thread was very dubiously created in the first place and has only devolved into off topic ramble at this point.

December statistics, as interesting as they are, represent a tiny snapshot of the meta in a very odd place (because there are fewer large games, the stakes are lower and most players don't have time to play). Perhaps for a better read on the meta we should continue to follow 40k stats centre and see what the next few months brings?

Uhh - I've literally never played against a player using a dice ap. Literally never and I would probably ask them not to. Probably over 500 games at this time. Heck I watch a lot of these players games on twitch....they are using real dice. LOL. I am not even sure if dice ap is legal in ITC play.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Many, many top players use that iPhone warhammer dice app for their games (I can't remember the name because I couldn't get it on my android device). I doubt they have a rigged version in their possession.

I have to be honest - I think this thread was very dubiously created in the first place and has only devolved into off topic ramble at this point.

December statistics, as interesting as they are, represent a tiny snapshot of the meta in a very odd place (because there are fewer large games, the stakes are lower and most players don't have time to play). Perhaps for a better read on the meta we should continue to follow 40k stats centre and see what the next few months brings?

Xenomancers wrote:
I for example have 3 sets of cheesex dice which I love. Legally purchased and they roll incredible without alteration. Is that cheating?

Yes. This kinda sounds like cheating.

How is that cheating? I did not alter the dice in any way. Is there any requirement to put your dice through statistical tests?

**An Actual Englishman**

Xenomancers wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
Many, many top players use that iPhone warhammer dice app for their games (I can't remember the name because I couldn't get it on my android device). I doubt they have a rigged version in their possession.

I have to be honest - I think this thread was very dubiously created in the first place and has only devolved into off topic ramble at this point.

December statistics, as interesting as they are, represent a tiny snapshot of the meta in a very odd place (because there are fewer large games, the stakes are lower and most players don't have time to play). Perhaps for a better read on the meta we should continue to follow 40k stats centre and see what the next few months brings?

Uhh - I've literally never played against a player using a dice ap. Literally never. Probably over 500 games at this time. Heck I watch a lot of these players games on twitch....they are using real dice. LOL.

Well you bring up an even greater counter point to your own argument - many events provide players with dice when they reach the top tables at large events - see LVO.

As to you never playing someone using a dice app - I find that...odd...when you claim to play competitively.

**Xenomancers**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
Many, many top players use that iPhone warhammer dice app for their games (I can't remember the name because I couldn't get it on my android device). I doubt they have a rigged version in their possession.

I have to be honest - I think this thread was very dubiously created in the first place and has only devolved into off topic ramble at this point.

December statistics, as interesting as they are, represent a tiny snapshot of the meta in a very odd place (because there are fewer large games, the stakes are lower and most players don't have time to play). Perhaps for a better read on the meta we should continue to follow 40k stats centre and see what the next few months brings?

Uhh - I've literally never played against a player using a dice ap. Literally never. Probably over 500 games at this time. Heck I watch a lot of these players games on twitch....they are using real dice. LOL.

Well you bring up an even greater counter point to your own argument - many events provide players with dice when they reach the top tables at large events - see LVO.

As to you never playing someone using a dice app - I find that...odd...when you claim to play competitively.

Dice app is not the least bit popular. I went to LVO last year and didn't see one player using one. I probably glanced at over 100 games while I was there. Dice on all of them.

**Nitro Zeus**

Holy hell. That's hands down the most low level crap I've ever seen on here. No, they aren't top players because they cheat. Top tables at large events are streamed nowadays anyway and even the tiniest mistakes are blown into massive 'cheating' dramas by lower level drama queens.

You are not a good player Xenomancer, don't ever refer to yourself as one because in absolutely no way are you one. You are every stereotype for bad at once. Blaming the game for your losses yet playing a top tier faction, not understanding the skills needed to win let alone having the capacity to improve them, being sure that if you played the most broken faction in the game you'd dominate every event, still never once ever testing that theory even though it's literally free since you already play the faction, not having any results to your name, accusing everyone who does have great results of being a cheater, and using the farcical 'everyone knows' as your calling card of authority for everyone point that you make, having a bunch of anecdotes blatantly written to serve whatever story you need to tell at that moment. Just... stop. This is embarrassing to read. You went to LVO and didn't even enter, that's the best summary of this there is. You're not a competitor, you're someone watching from the sidelines providing ridiculously inaccurate commentary.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Wait, so NOW it's OK to just wait a few months and let the meta settle out??

Also, Xeno's being Xeno. Nothing to see here, move along.

**An Actual Englishman**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Wait, so NOW it's OK to just wait a few months and let the meta settle out??

As opposed to a desperately attempting to justify/argue against the obviously OP status of Marines? Yes.

**Not Online!!!**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Wait, so NOW it's OK to just wait a few months and let the meta settle out??

As opposed to a desperately attempting to justify/argue against the obviously OP status of Marines? Yes.

But marines suffered! We want now time in the sun!

( Aside, the joke,it was true, even funnier the other dex having pretty much the same issues still has them

)

**Argive**

Well what did you guys expect ?

Xeno has stated that he plays solely to table his opponent into oblivion and that "standing around objectives a.k.a playing the mission is lame and boring" - Paraphrasing as I'm too lazy to look for the actual posts he has said this.
Also SM were trash tier despite new book because repulsor went up 15pts and Guiliman no longer rerolled ALL the wounds..
Basically unless his army can delete whole armies and table everyone its trash tier compared to whatever new hotnes sis at the time.

But flat out accusing top players of playing with loaded die/ cheating just because they won all of their games is reaching new heights for sure..

**MiguelFelstone**

Crimson wrote:
Oh boy, so now Xeno is accusing top players of cheating! This is a new low.

Xeno, newsflash; you are not a good player, and those other people do not do well because they cheat, they do well because they know how to play.

Being better than him is a form of cheating.

**bananathug**

Anyone catch that last round of the GW GT?

Tau vs IH from what I gathered.

Those ITC missions really were the problem the whole time!! /s

Also, looks like GW is going to 2k as default army size as well for their tourneys as well. Stupid ITC always behind the curve...

My favorite part was the game they streamed that barely got through turn 2.

To Martel's point there was a 150ish gaunt nid army there that was doing well. Something about just sitting on the objectives and knowing you can't kill that many fearless obsec bodies before time ran out. Yep, just the kind of game play I love to see encouraged by my mission design...

**Yoyoyo**

bananathug wrote:
Those ITC missions really were the problem the whole time!! /s

Good players are going to read the mission format and adjust as appropriate.

I personally couldn't offer an opinion, why don't your link some information instead of editorializing?

**MiguelFelstone**

bananathug wrote:
Anyone catch that last round of the GW GT?

Tau vs IH from what I gathered.

Those ITC missions really were the problem the whole time!! /s

Also, looks like GW is going to 2k as default army size as well for their tourneys as well. Stupid ITC always behind the curve...

My favorite part was the game they streamed that barely got through turn 2.

To Martel's point there was a 150ish gaunt nid army there that was doing well. Something about just sitting on the objectives and knowing you can't kill that many fearless obsec bodies before time ran out. Yep, just the kind of game play I love to see encouraged by my mission design...

It's an invite only "GT", they have their own house rules, and they award points for artistic efforts and crap like that, typical GW "tournament".

**Crimson**

MiguelFelstone wrote:
and they award points for artistic efforts and crap like that,

That sounds like a good practice.

**AlmightyWalrus**

EDIT: Never mind. Not the time nor the place.

**MiguelFelstone**

Crimson wrote:
MiguelFelstone wrote:
and they award points for artistic efforts and crap like that,

That sounds like a good practice.

Maybe, but it's not exactly a great metric for tournament performance.

**Gadzilla666**

Crimson wrote:
MiguelFelstone wrote:
and they award points for artistic efforts and crap like that,

That sounds like a good practice.

Wrong thread.

**Wayniac**

MiguelFelstone wrote:
bananathug wrote:
Anyone catch that last round of the GW GT?

Tau vs IH from what I gathered.

Those ITC missions really were the problem the whole time!! /s

Also, looks like GW is going to 2k as default army size as well for their tourneys as well. Stupid ITC always behind the curve...

My favorite part was the game they streamed that barely got through turn 2.

To Martel's point there was a 150ish gaunt nid army there that was doing well. Something about just sitting on the objectives and knowing you can't kill that many fearless obsec bodies before time ran out. Yep, just the kind of game play I love to see encouraged by my mission design...

It's an invite only "GT", they have their own house rules, and they award points for artistic efforts and crap like that, typical GW "tournament".

So the way a tournament for a HOBBY involving collecting miniatures should be. This is a fething hobby, not a sport. No matter how certain people try to turn it into one.

**Amishprn86**

https://i.imgur.com/25SJJIs.png

Here is the WHW results using new CA missions. More talk and results/lists about it here https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/entxrd/interesting_results_from_the_games_workshop_grand/

What do you think about this?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I want to add that yes, that is a pure BA list and yes with Sang Guard, yes that is GK but it was with some custodes captains and loyal 32 (still mostly GK), and Tau was low of shields and Piranhas (something i keep saying that Piranhas suck in ITC but are awesome in GW missions)

I copy and paste and tried to format it a bit easier to read. Here are 3 lists that stood out to me. There are others but you guys can look through them

Joe | | | Blood Angels || | Blood Angels Battalion |
Primaris Captain (WARLORD, Power Fist, Plasma Pistol, Selfless Valour)
Captain with Jump Pack (Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer, Bolt Pistol)
3 x 5 Intercessors (Bolt Rifles, Power Sword), Primaris Ancient (Power Sword, Standard of Sacrifice)
9 Sanguinary Guard (Angelus Boltguns, 8 Encarmine Swords, 1 Power Fist)

| Blood Angels Battalion |
Captain with Jump Pack (Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer, Bolt Pistol)
Sanguinary Priest
2 x 5 Intercessors (Bolt Rifles, Power Sword)
5 Infiltrators (Marksman Bolt Carbine)

| Blood Angels Battalion |
Captain with Jump Pack (Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer, Bolt Pistol)
Primaris Lieutenant (Power Sword)
5 Infiltrators (Marksman Bolt Carbine)
2 x 5 Scouts (Boltguns)

| Simon | || T'au || | T'au Sept Battalion |
Cadre Fireblade (2 Shield Drones, Puretide Engram Neurochip)
Commander Shadowsun (2 MV52 Shield Drones, Command Link Drone)
3 x 5 Strike Team (Markerlight, 2 Shield Drones)
Riptide (Heavy Burst Cannon, 2 SMS, Advanced Targeting, Velocity Tracker)
3 Piranhas
3 Broadside Battlesuits (2 High Yield Missile Pods, 2 SMS, Seeker Missile, ATS, 4 Shield Drones),
2 Broadside Battlesuits (Heavy Rail Rifle, 2 Plasma Rifles,Seeker Missiles, Velocity Tracker, 4 Shield Drones)

| T'au Sept Auxiliary Support |
Coldstar Commander (4 Fusion Blasters, Vectored Manoeuvring Thrusters, Shield Drone, WARLORD, Exemplar of the Mont'ka)
| Sa'cea Vanguard |
Ethereal (Hover Drone, Marker Drone)
Dahyak Grekh
2 x Firesight Marksman

| Imperium || | Grey Knights Battalion |
3 x Grand Master in Nemesis Dreadknight (Dreadfist, Dreadknight Teleporter, Gatling Psylancer, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword)
3 x 5 Strike Squad (Falchions, Storm Bolters)
5 Interceptors (Falchions, Storm Bolters)

| Custodes Supreme Command |
3 x Shield Captain on Dawneagle Jetbike (Hurricane Bolter)

| Astra Militarum Battalion |
2 x Company Commander (Boltgun)
3 x Infantry Squad (Lasguns), Infantry Squad (Lasguns, Boltgun)

**Yoyoyo**

Looks like it was like this, game-wise.

6-0: Tau
5-0-1: Iron Hands
5-1: Grey Knights, Iron Hands, Imperial Fists, Blood Angels, Drukhari
4-1-1: Mixed Chaos

And then lots of diversity in the 4-2 finishers.

The "points removed" column is a good metric. You can instantly see the difference between a kill denial list (~2500pts) and a leafblower one (~10K pts).

**Daedalus81**

bananathug wrote:
Anyone catch that last round of the GW GT?

Tau vs IH from what I gathered.

Those ITC missions really were the problem the whole time!! /s

Also, looks like GW is going to 2k as default army size as well for their tourneys as well. Stupid ITC always behind the curve...

My favorite part was the game they streamed that barely got through turn 2.

To Martel's point there was a 150ish gaunt nid army there that was doing well. Something about just sitting on the objectives and knowing you can't kill that many fearless obsec bodies before time ran out. Yep, just the kind of game play I love to see encouraged by my mission design...

Hmm, well, it seems your representation may not be totally accurate. The game went to turn 4, but I suppose you meant it was "decided" on turn 2? It doesn't look like the IH player scored considerably more, but I don't have working headphones at the moment so does anyone have more on that?

Technically the T'au player won "best general" with what looks to be a very non-standard list among lots of other weird lists.

Can someone tell me if the first level of terrain blocked LOS at this tournament?
Are these results from a propensity for these sorts of attendees to lean more fluffy?

**Dudeface**

bananathug wrote:
Anyone catch that last round of the GW GT?

Tau vs IH from what I gathered.

Those ITC missions really were the problem the whole time!! /s

Also, looks like GW is going to 2k as default army size as well for their tourneys as well. Stupid ITC always behind the curve...

My favorite part was the game they streamed that barely got through turn 2.

To Martel's point there was a 150ish gaunt nid army there that was doing well. Something about just sitting on the objectives and knowing you can't kill that many fearless obsec bodies before time ran out. Yep, just the kind of game play I love to see encouraged by my mission design...

Agreed, the ITC are clearly superior as here we see the top 10 was only 40% marines but that includes those pesky "lose all the time" blood angels of Martels.

Plus you'd think the 40k rulebook suggests a 2k limit or something, I know prior gw events have been lower but ITC obviously set the precedent for 2k games.

But you're right, missions that weren't designed by a khorne berserker aren't any good.