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Right, I've been thinking real hard of selling a bunch of stuff and pivoting to chaos. I don't necessarily plan on going as hard as possible to win tournies, but I do want what I buy for them to be somewhat competitive. Here's what I've come up with so far:

Detachment: Night Lords Host Raptorial Battalion

Purpose: Deepstriking to reduce drops and clear screens/heavy infantry/characters
Units:

HQs: Chaos Lord with Jumppack. Host raptorial warlord trait, slaanesh mark, and twin lighting claws (as the rapacious talons). If I'd taken the mortal wounds on... I think 6s to hit trait he'd have a 76% chance of killing a knight in one turn. As is, he'll boost warp talons into combat before joining in himself to hunt smash captains and stuff like dev cents.

Chaos Sorceror with Jumppack. Casts spells. Buffs or debuffs, whichever's better.

Troops: 3x10 cultists. Just there to take objectives and give me CP

Fast Attack: 1x10 Warp Talons. With the right buffs and the lord's support these guys can shred for a relatively cheap price. 190 points for a unit that can't be overwatched, and is coming in with a 7" charge to tie up anything shooty. I might set some points aside to summon in a herald with these guys, for the strength boost. Maybe. Probably not though.

Flyer: Heldrake. For vox scream and turn 1 fighting.

Detachment: World Eaters/Skulltakers Battalion

Purpose: Taking out the harder targets, the big stuff.

HQs: Either a termi lord with Gorefather or Zhufor, either way they'd be red butcher'd. With the right buffs the lord has something like a 78% chance of killing a knight in one turn, and zhufor's probably not far off.
Dark Apostle. Same deal as the jump sorc.

Troops: 2x5 zerkers with fists on the sgts. They'll go in a rhino and go around killing stuff, basic stuff.
1x10 cultists, to reach 3 troops and sit on stuff.

Elites: Maybe terminators. Maybe. They're relatively cheap for all the shots they can put out, and they'd be handy to put with the termi lord, but with red butchers being a 1-use stratagem I will probably drop them for... I dunno yet actually. I do know I love the look of them tho and would love to fit them in somehow. If I can't, I'll probably just take a second heldrake for the night lords.

Detachment: Red Corsairs Battalion

Purpose: CP battery, excuse to put actual CSM on the table, lords discordants.

HQs: As mentioned, Lords Discordant. Either 3 of them, or 2 and a winged daemon prince to cast yet more buffs/debuffs

Troops: 3x5 CSM squads, with a single autocannon per squad. Relatively durable (it'll take something like 90 bolter shots on average to kill a squad) and they'll either A) probably make their points back or B) help me get objective based VP which is basically the same thing as making their points back.

Alternate Third Detachment: Black Legion Battalion

Purpose: I like the new Abaddon a lot. I might choose to go with him and a whole bunch of other stuff I like instead of the disco lords.

HQs: Abaddon, and a sorc lord which we'll just go ahead and call Khayon.

Troops: same as red corsairs. not as efficient as cultists without the extra CP, but hey I like them and want them in the list sue me.

Elites: Termies to pop onto the board with abaddon

Heavy Support: Obliterators to also pop onto the board with abaddon. Maybe some havocs since the christmas battleforce seems like a good way to get this list started.[/spoiler]



Sorry about the somewhat odd formatting of this, but I wanted to put reasons for my choices in and I didn't want to fiddle with battlescribe since I can only use it on my phone. I'm looking for advice on how to make this list better, and how to get my hands on a lot of this stuff. Like I said I mentioned the christmas battleforce, and for cultists I've got my eyes on renegade guard from BSF. But if anyone has any ideas or suggestions on other stuff I'm more than open.

Hey man, welcome to the wonderful world of chaos, they actually have lots of ways to be competitive now.

So first 2 detachments seem fine, although I always take claws of the black hunt over rapacious talons. Less rolls to use them and more reliable. Plus you can give him mark of khorne for doublefight if necessary.

Also I'd take a rhino for zerkers.

For third detachment you definitely need shooting. I'd consider taking alpha legion/iron warriors for oblits and havocks. Or plasma termies for the nightlords. You can make them +1 to hit with a stratergem (prey on the weak) and do the usual, veterans of the long war and endless Cacophony. Plus you can use in midnight clad and the charge from cover strat if find the right cover.

You could take a couple of winged daemon princes for the HQs, for the points they are solid, good mele, psychic support and reroll 1s all on a tough unit.

 small_gods wrote:
Hey man, welcome to the wonderful world of chaos, they actually have lots of ways to be competitive now.

So first 2 detachments seem fine, although I always take claws of the black hunt over rapacious talons. Less rolls to use them and more reliable. Plus you can give him mark of khorne for doublefight if necessary.

Also I'd take a rhino for zerkers.

For third detachment you definitely need shooting. I'd consider taking alpha legion/iron warriors for oblits and havocks. Or plasma termies for the nightlords. You can make them +1 to hit with a stratergem (prey on the weak) and do the usual, veterans of the long war and endless Cacophony. Plus you can use in midnight clad and the charge from cover strat if find the right cover.

You could take a couple of winged daemon princes for the HQs, for the points they are solid, good mele, psychic support and reroll 1s all on a tough unit.

I hadn't thought about the prey on the weak strat for termies, that's a real good idea. And alpha legion is a strong choice as well, though I waver on it due to reasons of taste (I really like Black Legion, and I can just make up my own warband with corsairs).

Claws are probably a strong choice as well. I went with the rapacious talons because of a goonhammer article that showed how strong they could get, but either works. It's also the same reason I want to use a gorefather red butchers lord, dude can get one of the best non-loyalist marine chances of killing a knight in one turn.

Yeah gorefather lord is a beast. Plus he's good vs almost any number of targets.

I'm using Alpha legion Oblits at the moment because conceal is so good but all 3 have their merits. If you go with night lords you'll have more synergy in the list.

 small_gods wrote:
Yeah gorefather lord is a beast. Plus he's good vs almost any number of targets.

I'm using Alpha legion Oblits at the moment because conceal is so good but all 3 have their merits. If you go with night lords you'll have more synergy in the list.

If I were to go alpha legion, aside from obliterators what are some really good shooting options? Havocs seem like an obvious choice, but what should I put on them?

 cole1114 wrote:

 small_gods wrote:
Yeah gorefather lord is a beast. Plus he's good vs almost any number of targets.

I'm using Alpha legion Oblits at the moment because conceal is so good but all 3 have their merits. If you go with night lords you'll have more synergy in the list.

If I were to go alpha legion, aside from obliterators what are some really good shooting options? Havocs seem like an obvious choice, but what should I put on them?

I like Reaper Chaincannon havocks, great for clearing screens. You can hide and warptime them for range or use forward operatives. They also are a great target for the repositioning tricks. Other options are plas Terminators and chosen but they would be competing with oblits for stratergems and targets etc.

I'm running a list with possessed and oblits at the moment you can get them well up the board and then use oblits and conceal turn 2 with the possessed-3 to hit infront.

The best thing about havocs imo, is the devastation battery.

That said, i made great experiences with AC havocs, simply put, atm, the general reaction is :" havocs, oh no reaper chaincannon so not that dangerous", meanwhile the 4 AC's go to town on all targets there are.Bonus points if you fight against primaris.

 small_gods wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:

 small_gods wrote:
Yeah gorefather lord is a beast. Plus he's good vs almost any number of targets.

I'm using Alpha legion Oblits at the moment because conceal is so good but all 3 have their merits. If you go with night lords you'll have more synergy in the list.

If I were to go alpha legion, aside from obliterators what are some really good shooting options? Havocs seem like an obvious choice, but what should I put on them?

I like Reaper Chaincannon havocks, great for clearing screens. You can hide and warptime them for range or use forward operatives. They also are a great target for the repositioning tricks. Other options are plas Terminators and chosen but they would be competing with oblits for stratergems and targets etc.

I'm running a list with possessed and oblits at the moment you can get them well up the board and then use oblits and conceal turn 2 with the possessed-3 to hit infront.

What about other shooting options, like forgefiends? Especially if I do end up taking disco lords.

 cole1114 wrote:

 small_gods wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:

 small_gods wrote:
Yeah gorefather lord is a beast. Plus he's good vs almost any number of targets.

I'm using Alpha legion Oblits at the moment because conceal is so good but all 3 have their merits. If you go with night lords you'll have more synergy in the list.

If I were to go alpha legion, aside from obliterators what are some really good shooting options? Havocs seem like an obvious choice, but what should I put on them?

I like Reaper Chaincannon havocks, great for clearing screens. You can hide and warptime them for range or use forward operatives. They also are a great target for the repositioning tricks. Other options are plas Terminators and chosen but they would be competing with oblits for stratergems and targets etc.

I'm running a list with possessed and oblits at the moment you can get them well up the board and then use oblits and conceal turn 2 with the possessed-3 to hit infront.

What about other shooting options, like forgefiends? Especially if I do end up taking disco lords.

Discos want forward.
Forgefiends preferably move only once, namely when they are set up.

That is not to say forgefiends can't work, infact mine does decent but it is part of a list that is built around daemonengines and movement shenanigans pregame. and runs a lor of lords, (also a massive gimick list but he, better then nothing )
i'd say if you'd want to add any fellow Daemonengine for discolords, i'd say the venomcrawlers are probably better due to their weapons beeing assault and them beeing able to keep up.

Not Online!!! wrote:
The best thing about havocs imo, is the devastation battery.

That said, i made great experiences with AC havocs, simply put, atm, the general reaction is :" havocs, oh no reaper chaincannon so not that dangerous", meanwhile the 4 AC's go to town on all targets there are.Bonus points if you fight against primaris.

Whats good about devastation battery ? You need to spend 1CP to even get access to it. Then you need to spend another CP for armour bane, if you want. And its 1CP to shoot in your enemys movement phase with punishing volley. You cant use any more stratagems like endless cacophony, votlw, because its not your shooting phase.

 p5freak wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
The best thing about havocs imo, is the devastation battery.

That said, i made great experiences with AC havocs, simply put, atm, the general reaction is :" havocs, oh no reaper chaincannon so not that dangerous", meanwhile the 4 AC's go to town on all targets there are.Bonus points if you fight against primaris.

Whats good about devastation battery ? You need to spend 1CP to even get access to it. Then you need to spend another CP for armour bane, if you want. And its 1CP to shoot in your enemys movement phase with punishing volley. You cant use any more stratagems like endless cacophony, votlw, because its not your shooting phase.

Ignoring cover, reroll wound rolls of 1 is a massive boost to endless cacophony and VotLW. Especially for reaper chaincannons and autocannons. But it makes oblits even more deadly which is always useful. If you're using a havock and oblitorators gunline you'd be mad not to use it.

 small_gods wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
The best thing about havocs imo, is the devastation battery.

That said, i made great experiences with AC havocs, simply put, atm, the general reaction is :" havocs, oh no reaper chaincannon so not that dangerous", meanwhile the 4 AC's go to town on all targets there are.Bonus points if you fight against primaris.

Whats good about devastation battery ? You need to spend 1CP to even get access to it. Then you need to spend another CP for armour bane, if you want. And its 1CP to shoot in your enemys movement phase with punishing volley. You cant use any more stratagems like endless cacophony, votlw, because its not your shooting phase.

Ignoring cover, reroll wound rolls of 1 is a massive boost to endless cacophony and VotLW. Especially for reaper chaincannons and autocannons. But it makes oblits even more deadly which is always useful. If you're using a havock and oblitorators gunline you'd be mad not to use it.

Further it allows you to atleast snatch at one point the enemies initiative on something, which should NOT be underestimated.
Crippling a key squad, before it even can fire and your enemy would have the first turn is a nice safety blanket to have just in case. Also atm as a CSM player you can swim in CP, what with R&H on one, RC on the other side beeing able to generate a gak ton of CP dirt cheap.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 small_gods wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
The best thing about havocs imo, is the devastation battery.

That said, i made great experiences with AC havocs, simply put, atm, the general reaction is :" havocs, oh no reaper chaincannon so not that dangerous", meanwhile the 4 AC's go to town on all targets there are.Bonus points if you fight against primaris.

Whats good about devastation battery ? You need to spend 1CP to even get access to it. Then you need to spend another CP for armour bane, if you want. And its 1CP to shoot in your enemys movement phase with punishing volley. You cant use any more stratagems like endless cacophony, votlw, because its not your shooting phase.

Ignoring cover, reroll wound rolls of 1 is a massive boost to endless cacophony and VotLW. Especially for reaper chaincannons and autocannons. But it makes oblits even more deadly which is always useful. If you're using a havock and oblitorators gunline you'd be mad not to use it.

Further it allows you to atleast snatch at one point the enemies initiative on something, which should NOT be underestimated.
Crippling a key squad, before it even can fire and your enemy would have the first turn is a nice safety blanket to have just in case. Also atm as a CSM player you can swim in CP, what with R&H on one, RC on the other side beeing able to generate a gak ton of CP dirt cheap.

Not sure how you can cripple a key squad with just four shooting models, without the use of endless cacophony and votlw.

 p5freak wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 small_gods wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
The best thing about havocs imo, is the devastation battery.

That said, i made great experiences with AC havocs, simply put, atm, the general reaction is :" havocs, oh no reaper chaincannon so not that dangerous", meanwhile the 4 AC's go to town on all targets there are.Bonus points if you fight against primaris.

Whats good about devastation battery ? You need to spend 1CP to even get access to it. Then you need to spend another CP for armour bane, if you want. And its 1CP to shoot in your enemys movement phase with punishing volley. You cant use any more stratagems like endless cacophony, votlw, because its not your shooting phase.

Ignoring cover, reroll wound rolls of 1 is a massive boost to endless cacophony and VotLW. Especially for reaper chaincannons and autocannons. But it makes oblits even more deadly which is always useful. If you're using a havock and oblitorators gunline you'd be mad not to use it.

Further it allows you to atleast snatch at one point the enemies initiative on something, which should NOT be underestimated.
Crippling a key squad, before it even can fire and your enemy would have the first turn is a nice safety blanket to have just in case. Also atm as a CSM player you can swim in CP, what with R&H on one, RC on the other side beeing able to generate a gak ton of CP dirt cheap.

Not sure how you can cripple a key squad with just four shooting models, without the use of endless cacophony and votlw.

depedns a bit on the havocs no?
also, further, depending on how you time it, your opponent may leave a defensive buff behind.

Like i said, it's a initiative snatching tool.
A preety decent one at that.

I can see it being very useful in an army that doesn't have access to Nurglings/AL scout deployment and needs to deal with annoyances like Invictor Dreads.