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Hi all

I’m doing a custom successor chapter for painting reasons. I’d be interested in your views on a couple of the successor chapter tactics and related issues.

Context to questions: I am a relatively new player, so I am looking for a combination that will allow me to keep units in play a bit longer, so I can figure out my preferred ‘style’ of play (melee/in-their-face, gun-line, sit-in-a-castle etc.) My first army will be a real mixture of different units, to test out how they fit with my natural inclinations, reactions and thinking.

First off is the interaction between Bolter Fusillade, re-rolls from buff models and Bolter Discipline.

Q: if you take Bolter Fusillade and have a buff model that allows re-rolls of 1s of hit rolls, does this mean that you can re-roll once via the buff, then if you roll a 1, again via the Bolter Fusillade chapter tactic?

Q: With Bolter Discipline, does this mean that rapid fire 1 weapon can, if the conditions are met, fire 4 times instead of the usual 2 for being within rapid fire range? If so, does the Bolter Fusillade re-roll ability apply to all 4 shots?

Q: What do you think about the idea of taking combi-weapons along with Bolter Fusillade to maximise bolter shots, re-roll natural 1s and still have a plasma shot at a -1? Is it worth the cost of the combi weapons?

Second, I’d like to hear people’s views and experiences with stalwart, warded and stealthy successor tactics.

Q: what do people think of the merits of Stalwart (unit cannot be wounded by unmodified wound rolls of 1 or 2, regardless of the abilities of the attacker) vs Warded (ignore mortal wounds on a natural 5 or 6 roll). In terms of regular (1 wound) and primas (2 wound) infantry units, what does mathhammer suggest will be the effect on the unit’s durability?

Q: in terms of the merits of Stalwart, am I correct in thinking that this means units would have a 33% greater chance of not being wounded from each attack?

Q: What do people think about combining stalwart/warded with stealthy? (count as in cover when over 12” away).

Cheers!
XD

No dice can be rerolled more than once(unless special rule specifically says otherwise). Mind you if you reroll 1, get say 6 that gives extra shot that extra shot gets reroll as it's new dice.

Bolter disclipine doesn't increase shots. Just times when you get double shots.

Stalwart yes though it matters only vs s8+ attacks.

You cannot reroll a reroll.

Bolter discipline only provides additional conditions to double the shots, it does not double the shots a second time.

Bolter fusiliade applies to all bolter shots, not just one. It still isnt a great chapter tactic.

Combi weapons are generally worth it. Plasma at -1 might not be the best Idea tho.

Stalwart only protects against strength 8+ or weapons that always wound on 2+ . It's not that great really. Nobody will shoot your Infantry with anti tank guns. Warded is similarly situational and not that great either.

Stealthy on the other hand is a solid choice.

Iron hands still provide superior durability to all of the above. They're meta for a reason.

To expand on Warded, it is somewhat situational. It only protects against MORTAL wounds. That means it does nothing to protect against normal weapon damage. Mortal wounds generally come from psychic powers, a few random abilities, and as a secondary effect of some weapons.

It will be very matchup dependent. Against a psyker heavy enemy it do a bit, but some games it might do nothing at all.

Overall if you're going for durability, just take Iron Hands trait.

If you are interested in keeping units in play for longer I would suggest:

Indomitable and Stoic will help mitigate loses from moral. However since SM have high leadership and can reroll failed tests they should only be taken if you plan to use large units.
Knowledge is Power gives Psykers a reroll ones during a deny the witch to protect against psychic attacks
Scions of the Forge will give your vehicles more staying power as it will help keep there stats from decreasing as they take wounds.

Or take Iron Hands and get Scions, Feel no Pain on a 6 and better overwatch.

Hi there, thanks for all that Quick question, why do you say combi weapons are generally worth it, but plasma double-shot mode (-1) might not be the best idea? Doesn't overload only happen on a natural 1, not modified 1? or is there some other reason?

Cheers!

Morkphoiz wrote:
You cannot reroll a reroll.

Bolter discipline only provides additional conditions to double the shots, it does not double the shots a second time.

Bolter fusiliade applies to all bolter shots, not just one. It still isnt a great chapter tactic.

Combi weapons are generally worth it. Plasma at -1 might not be the best Idea tho.

Stalwart only protects against strength 8+ or weapons that always wound on 2+ . It's not that great really. Nobody will shoot your Infantry with anti tank guns. Warded is similarly situational and not that great either.

Stealthy on the other hand is a solid choice.

Iron hands still provide superior durability to all of the above. They're meta for a reason.

Overheating plasma doesn’t need a natural one, which is why stealth makes plasma guns explode, go figure.

Wow... that is kinda... whack

Aash wrote:
Overheating plasma doesn’t need a natural one, which is why stealth makes plasma guns explode, go figure.

And just to make it even stupider that only works in one direction; a +1 to-hit does not make plasma safe to overcharge.

The Newman wrote:
And just to make it even stupider that only works in one direction; a +1 to-hit does not make plasma safe to overcharge.

Yes it does. Except Ork Plasma.

 JNAProductions wrote:

The Newman wrote:
And just to make it even stupider that only works in one direction; a +1 to-hit does not make plasma safe to overcharge.

Yes it does. Except Ork Plasma.

My group insisted I was doing that wrong and that it was in a side-bar and clarified in an FAQ somewhere, but none of them has gotten back to me on the reference. It makes the price point of Hellblasters make a more sense since there's a few ways to hand them +1 to-hit.

On a different note, I've gotten decent use out of Warded as a way to mitigate a Libby not always being a good choice and/or not having other ways to deny psychic powers. I also run into Mortal Wound generation that doesn't have anything to do with the psychic phase semi-regularly (including friendly effects like Overcharging plasma on a Dread or taking a Perils) and Warded helps there too.

It's situational, but when it does come up it's decent. It's almost certainly better than Stalwart.

If you're looking to combine something with Stealthy the most synergistic mate to it is probably Long Range Marksmen so both parts of your chapter trait are encouraging the same behavior, but I think there's a convincing case to be made that a Marine army shouldn't try to maximize shooting at the expense of melee prowress.