Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The last time I played 40k was in 3rd Edition. I have a Black Templar army. I just bought Codex: Space Marines, along with Faith and Fury. I have no idea of the new rules. Can someone please explain this to me?? And by the way, what is a command point?

What? Explain the entire BRB to ya? Narrow things down a bit. What you having trouble with?

Command Points are a currency you use to fuel the various Stratagems that your Codex affords you for fielding a Battleforged army.

Is it still along the lines of:

2 HQ Choices, 6 troops and 3 choices for Fast Attack, Elites and Heavy Support?

Is it still a three phase turn: movement, shooting and then close combat?

Edit- What is Battleforged?

1) Depends on the Detachment you're looking to build, but more or less yes.

2) phases go as follows: Move, Psyker, Shoot, Charge, Fight.

3) Battleforged Armies are built using Detachments, and various other rules.

It might behoove you to download the free Battle Primer as most of this information is in there.

You could try reading the rulebook. There's too much to explain, because we'd need to explain the entire rulebook. Just... read the rules. They won't bite, honest.

Droog wrote:
The last time I played 40k was in 3rd Edition. I have a Black Templar army. I just bought Codex: Space Marines, along with Faith and Fury. I have no idea of the new rules. Can someone please explain this to me?? And by the way, what is a command point?

There are only 12 pages of basic rules now. You can actually see them for free. from games workshop here: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Battle-Primer-2017-ENG

the odds of a new rulebook coming out this summer are extremely high. This won't be a "new edition" but rather a clean up, 8.5 if you will. The current BRB is very, very out of date in terms of the FAQ erratas, which you will need to read from here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

Each faction, and all books get new FAQs and errata about every six months.

Phases are:

Movement
Psychic
Shooting
Charge
Close Combat
Moral

Command points are decided by which detachment you bring. In the BRB there are a number of choices for detachment. From patrol (+1 Command Point) to Brigades (+12 command points). The most commonly used is the Battalion . Each of these will tell you how many of each type of model you can bring, the bigger the detachment, the more you can filed. Games are commonly run between 1250-2000 points now. A battleforged army is made up of all the same faction. (All Salamanders Space Marines, or All Cadian Guard, etc.)

You said that you are playing space Marines of the BT variety. Keep in mind that marines are being phased out for the new "true scale" marines, called "Primaris Marines" a lot of the non-primaris or "old marines" have some questionably rules and pointing. Things have gotten better, but as far as I can tell some of the Primaris units are a must have.

"It might behoove you to download the free Battle Primer as most of this information is in there."

Thanks for that.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
" Keep in mind that marines are being phased out for the new "true scale" marines, called "Primaris Marines"..."

Yes, I'll have to figure this out, too. I wanted to start an Imperial Guard or Eldar army, until I saw the current prices of minis.

Droog wrote:
"It might behoove you to download the free Battle Primer as most of this information is in there."

Thanks for that.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
" Keep in mind that marines are being phased out for the new "true scale" marines, called "Primaris Marines"..."

Yes, I'll have to figure this out, too. I wanted to start an Imperial Guard or Eldar army, until I saw the current prices of minis.

the "marines are being phased out" bit BTW isn't anything you have to worry about, anyone who tells you that your old marine minis are "imminatly going to be phased out" is just being alarmist

keep using what you got and add new stuff as it pleases you

BrianDavion wrote:

Droog wrote:
"It might behoove you to download the free Battle Primer as most of this information is in there."

Thanks for that.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
" Keep in mind that marines are being phased out for the new "true scale" marines, called "Primaris Marines"..."

Yes, I'll have to figure this out, too. I wanted to start an Imperial Guard or Eldar army, until I saw the current prices of minis.

the "marines are being phased out" bit BTW isn't anything you have to worry about, anyone who tells you that your old marine minis are "imminatly going to be phased out" is just being alarmist

keep using what you got and add new stuff as it pleases you

Yes there's nothing wrong with "old marines ". That's all us heretics have and we do just fine, thank you.

Droog wrote:
Is it still along the lines of:

2 HQ Choices, 6 troops and 3 choices for Fast Attack, Elites and Heavy Support?

Is it still a three phase turn: movement, shooting and then close combat?

Edit- What is Battleforged?

There are different detachments you can use, similar to the old FOC, but with more added. If you fill up the required slots, you get extra command points to spend on stratagems. The main one you will probably want to use requires 2xHQ and 3xTroops, and gives you 5 command points. But if you are going for a more focused theme list, there are ones that require 1xHQ and 3 of the same slot for FA/HS/Elite. Less command points for those. There are restictions on the other slots in these detachments, but if you just build your army like previous editions with the FOC, with an additional HQ and Troop, you will be fine.

Battleforged just means everyone in the same detachment shares the same keyword. It’s been clarified that “Imperium” doesn’t count. But as long as all your units are Black Templar, you are all good. If you want to have an ally force and still be battleforged you can, they just need to be in their own detachment.

The free downloadable core rules are no longer up to date. There was a FAQ update for it, I believe april last year. And of course GW couldn't be bothered to update it, and put the new file on their download server, which would have been 5 minutes work.
And btw, the new printed rulebook also has the old, outraged core rules.

BrianDavion wrote:

Droog wrote:
"It might behoove you to download the free Battle Primer as most of this information is in there."

Thanks for that.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
" Keep in mind that marines are being phased out for the new "true scale" marines, called "Primaris Marines"..."

Yes, I'll have to figure this out, too. I wanted to start an Imperial Guard or Eldar army, until I saw the current prices of minis.

the "marines are being phased out" bit BTW isn't anything you have to worry about, anyone who tells you that your old marine minis are "imminatly going to be phased out" is just being alarmist

keep using what you got and add new stuff as it pleases you

Keep telling yourself that, but it's been almost 6 months since codex SM 2.0 came out and I only ever see dev squads on the table anymore. I haven't seen a Tactical marine, vanguard vet, or landraider in over a year on the tabletop.

 Togusa wrote:

Keep telling yourself that, but it's been almost 6 months since codex SM 2.0 came out and I only ever see dev squads on the table anymore. I haven't seen a Tactical marine, vanguard vet, or landraider in over a year on the tabletop.

And yet on my table, I always see at least one of those units, sometimes all three.

Not every game is top-table tournament competitive. Once you step away from the bleeding edge of competitiveness, a lot of units open up. They might not be as efficient as the min/max units, but they can still be effective on the table. And when both players agree that they are going to loosen up their lists to allow more “fun” units, the game still works, and enjoyment can be had.

The trick to 40k is to find out what kind of game you and your opponent want to have and play that game. Nobody has fun when a tournament list crub-stomps a fluffy list. But 2xTournament, or 2xFluff list BOTH make for great games for their respective players.

BrianDavion wrote:

Droog wrote:
"It might behoove you to download the free Battle Primer as most of this information is in there."

Thanks for that.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
" Keep in mind that marines are being phased out for the new "true scale" marines, called "Primaris Marines"..."

Yes, I'll have to figure this out, too. I wanted to start an Imperial Guard or Eldar army, until I saw the current prices of minis.

the "marines are being phased out" bit BTW isn't anything you have to worry about, anyone who tells you that your old marine minis are "imminatly going to be phased out" is just being alarmist

keep using what you got and add new stuff as it pleases you

No but primaris marines are the future. This is pretty clear to see.
Nobody certainly can say when the "phase out" will occur. but if you dont think its going to happen sooner or later I dont know what to tell you.

@OP download the battle primer as sugested. It covers pretty much all of the rules there.

The detatchement system has taken over the role of the force organisation chart.

Basicaly you want a couple hq and some troops to make a battalion and then go from there. Get someone to do an intro game is the best way to learn imo.

Yeah, there is no need to throw out marines you already have, but I wouldn't exactly advise a new player to invest heavily into them anymore.

 Jidmah wrote:
Yeah, there is no need to throw out marines you already have, but I wouldn't exactly advise a new player to invest heavily into them anymore.

Which is at the same time sound advice and a self-fulfilling prophecy. If it ever comes to pass I'll probably just mount my old marines on slightly taller bases for a while.

Step 1: Get the rulebook

Step 2: Read it

Step 3: If anything specific confused you ask for advice. Don't ask for people to explain the full set of rules.

Well. That escalated quickly.

OP has the new Codex and PA book? Download the GW Primer and go from there. Basically the old To Hit & To Wound charts are gone, everything (inc Vehicles) now has T value & Wounds like Monsters.

See? No hassle.

 flandarz wrote:


Command Points are a currency you use to fuel the various Stratagems that your Codex affords you for fielding a Battleforged army.

Can someone please explain this to me in greater detail? Do these command points cost points when creating an army, for example? I have made an army list (below) without knowing about these Command Points or Stratagems. Will it work?

PS- I have all of the models below, except for two of the dreadnoughts and two of the land speeders. I want to make a correct 8th Edition army list before potentially buying more models.


Black Templar Army List (1,500 points)

HQ

1 Captain with master crafted power weapon and plasma pistol.
74 +6 + 5= 86

1 Chaplain with jump pack.
90


Troops

6 initiates (bolters), one with Lascannon.
6 x 13 + 25= 103

5 initiates (bolters), one with missile launcher.
5 x 13 + 20= 85

5 initiates (bolt pistols and chainswords), one with master crafted power sword.
5 x 13 + 6= 71

5 initiates (bolt pistols and chainswords),
one with power fist.
5 x 13 + 9= 74

5 initiates (bolt pistols and chainswords),
one with power sword.
5 x 13 + 4= 69

5 initiates (bolt pistols and chainswords),
One with power fist.
5 x 13 + 9= 74


Fast Attack

6 x assault marines with jump packs. One with plasma pistol, one with power fist.
6 x 15 + 5 + 9= 104

1 x Land Speeder with multi melta
45 + 22= 67

1 x Land Speeder with multi melta
45 + 22= 67

1 x Land Speeder with heavy bolter
45



Elites

1 x Dreadnought with twin linked lascannon.
60 + 40= 100

1 x Dreadnought with twin linked lascannon.
60 + 40= 100

1 x Dreadnought with assault cannon.
60


Heavy Support

1 x Land Raider.
180

1 x Vindicator
125

I really suggest getting a read of the rules before buying more models.

In general, you get CP by filling up detachments - for example a battalion requires you to bring at least 2 HQ and 3 Troops to gain 5 CP.

 Ishagu wrote:
Step 1: Get the rulebook

Step 2: Read it

Step 3: If anything specific confused you ask for advice. Don't ask for people to explain the full set of rules.

well the problem with the rulebook is that even the new reprint does not have updated rules. If someone thinks he can play the game the way it is put down in the rulebook, they are going to be suprised when they start playing. deep strike, assault, movment, rule of 3 etc there were drastic changes done in 8th edition.

Droog
3rd -7th (and the horus heresy 30k game) were pretty back compatible 8th is a totally different game.

you really need to sit down and look through the rules to see if it is a thing you want to play or what new units that have been put into the game for marines that you may want to use.

 Jidmah wrote:
Yeah, there is no need to throw out marines you already have, but I wouldn't exactly advise a new player to invest heavily into them anymore.

We have no idea of how long it may be till this phase out even happens, if it happens though. You have to look at this in reference to actual time. If it takes 10 years for them to phase out old marines, much can happen in 10 years time. I'm just throwing that out there but being afraid to invest in models that may serve you well for half a decade or more seems a bit silly. This whole game has a life span and Warhammer won't last forever as the core audience gets older and all things go more digital and 3D printing becomes more common place the game itself may be on life support soon. Especially as they price up up and up in the process that just feeds that end.

Not saying any of that to be doom and gloom but being afraid you'll waste money that may be well served for years and years yet is silly, you need to have perspective. How long these days does anything last ? How long do we expect any of our investments in hobbies to survive ? The older you get the more you need to not worry of these things and just do what feels good at the time as you're not investing in the long distant future and who knows how long you'll even stick with the game to be concerned over when years and years from now you may have to replace the old marines. At that point you don't know what kind of life span any of these armies really has.

Basically, you're not making any army to last forever just get what you want and don't let the doom speakers press you away from any buys old marines or otherwise. Unless you're like 12 years old, I doubt the time before they would phase them out, if they ever phase them out, will matter to you, me or most on these boards.

I’d echo the suggestions to buy and understand the rules before worrying about army building and supplements.

Play small games and work your way up. There’s a lot to absorb, and asking to be spoonfed is gonna raise some people’s ire. You’re also gonna get all the usual posturing and soapboxing comments, so best to understand the basics through play so you can sift the useful from the edgelord stuff.

AngryAngel80 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Yeah, there is no need to throw out marines you already have, but I wouldn't exactly advise a new player to invest heavily into them anymore.

We have no idea of how long it may be till this phase out even happens, if it happens though. You have to look at this in reference to actual time. If it takes 10 years for them to phase out old marines, much can happen in 10 years time. I'm just throwing that out there but being afraid to invest in models that may serve you well for half a decade or more seems a bit silly. This whole game has a life span and Warhammer won't last forever as the core audience gets older and all things go more digital and 3D printing becomes more common place the game itself may be on life support soon. Especially as they price up up and up in the process that just feeds that end.

Not saying any of that to be doom and gloom but being afraid you'll waste money that may be well served for years and years yet is silly, you need to have perspective. How long these days does anything last ? How long do we expect any of our investments in hobbies to survive ? The older you get the more you need to not worry of these things and just do what feels good at the time as you're not investing in the long distant future and who knows how long you'll even stick with the game to be concerned over when years and years from now you may have to replace the old marines. At that point you don't know what kind of life span any of these armies really has.

Basically, you're not making any army to last forever just get what you want and don't let the doom speakers press you away from any buys old marines or otherwise. Unless you're like 12 years old, I doubt the time before they would phase them out, if they ever phase them out, will matter to you, me or most on these boards.

I agree with the sentiment in general. However, from what I've observed in recent games, old marines are kind of second rate units and you'll be spending money on units that no longer function as they were originally intended. Assault marines, sternguard, vanguard, tacticals and bikes simply don't do what they are supposed to do. Predators, dreads and terminators still work, but don't compare well to their primaris replacements
You can make them work, but it's an uphill battle. Primaris also feel much more like the marines in the fluff, so there is that.

In my experience people who are new or are returning after a long time are more likely to stay with the game if have fun. Losing twenty games in a row is a sure way to lose a new/returning player. In our group we have 3-4 veterans which look out for people on losing streaks and throw themselves under a bus for them, so they don't get frustrated. That doesn't necessarily mean throwing a game, sometimes it's enough to build an army around all those units gathering dust on the shelf and leave the power combos at home.
Therefore, I prefer to push them towards what actually makes their army work, and most old marine units are inferior to their primaris counterparts. Once they have reached their armies' "plateau" they are free to experiment with pretty much anything they like. At that point they won't be asking what to buy anyways.

There is also the issue of many people having limited hobby budget. It's pretty frustrating when you spend 50+ bucks on a unit and then have it made obsolete soon afte buying. I'd bet that the rumored primaris speeders and bikes will one-up all their old marine counterparts, and I know from experience that it totally sucks to buy and paint a new unit just to have it replaced by something better a few months later *points to 8 ork big gunz*.
It's pretty much a given that every power-armor unit will get a primaris replacement.

I've been a big proponent for SM bikes, even before Bolter Discipline, but especially after. A bit less stealthy than a regular Primaris, but a lot faster, and that's about it. If someone isn't keen on buying new kits, but has a bunch of old bikers, they could do a lot worse than stick them in as a fast moving, quick shooting, 2 wound per model alternative to Intercessors. Sure, they're Fast Attack rather than Troops, which is a whole other thing, but they're still a solid choice to me.