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With the over abundence of FW models at the recent LVO, team GW released a bit of a shocker, they would be reviewing and revamping all the rules of FW 40k models. while not a major problem to the majority of the average players, this spells doom for seemingly FW dependent lists in ITC/Competitive gaming. They singled out in an interview, The Chaplain dred, the Leviathan Dread, and the Thunderfire Cannon as things which they feel are hurting the game.

Do you think GW will muck this up or will everything become IHs now? I personally feel GW will move to make anything SM related even more powerful as that is their key selling point.

You know that this was planned before the LVO, right?

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
They singled out in an interview, The Chaplain dred, the Leviathan Dread, and the Thunderfire Cannon as things which they feel are hurting the game.

What interview is this?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I personally feel GW will move to make anything SM related even more powerful as that is their key selling point.

You stated GW mentioned three marine units are hurting the game, but then turn around and say they'll do exactly the opposite of addressing the units in that comment?

Except Iron Hands are hurting the game, not those units.

Some people just keep getting it wrong.

Seems like it's GW's endless rain of free bolt-on special rules resulting in power bloat when they put zero thought into how they will affect existing units that are the real fundamental problem.

If my DKoK ever get updated rules to even just put them on par with their codex equivalent unit entries, much less all their extra special rules, I'll be shocked and ecstatic. I'm more expecting that GW will make a big show of nerfing a couple major offenders, will introduce a few new ones, add a ton of bloat, and mostly just leave the majority of FW stuff in the "eh" state its currently in.

If GW is smart they will use the FW books to create new subfactions for everyone. Anphelion relic, WL trait and hive fleet adaptation. Minotaurs, Red Scorpions, A Necron Dynasty for Khutlak the World Killer etc etc...

I predict they won't be. But we will see.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Seems like it's GW's endless rain of free bolt-on special rules resulting in power bloat when they put zero thought into how they will affect existing units that are the real fundamental problem.

If my DKoK ever get updated rules to even just put them on par with their codex equivalent unit entries, much less all their extra special rules, I'll be shocked and ecstatic. I'm more expecting that GW will make a big show of nerfing a couple major offenders, will introduce a few new ones, add a ton of bloat, and mostly just leave the majority of FW stuff in the "eh" state its currently in.

See, I would expect that. The FW Index collection wasn't made for a post Codex: AM world. I expect they've decided that now all armies have a Codex, they know what they need to account for.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Seems like it's GW's endless rain of free bolt-on special rules resulting in power bloat when they put zero thought into how they will affect existing units that are the real fundamental problem.

If my DKoK ever get updated rules to even just put them on par with their codex equivalent unit entries, much less all their extra special rules, I'll be shocked and ecstatic. I'm more expecting that GW will make a big show of nerfing a couple major offenders, will introduce a few new ones, add a ton of bloat, and mostly just leave the majority of FW stuff in the "eh" state its currently in.

This almost certainly, that's how every codex release it.

Hopefully, the major offenders won't offend worse than the normal issue of non-Space Marine stuff out there.

Fingers crossed that the big winners of the spin the wheel of OP Forgeworld stuff are the Marcharius, Medusa, and Vendetta , but it'll probably be some of the Knights and the Space Marine HH stuff.

the thunderfire cannon is forgeworld now is it?

 Lance845 wrote:
If GW is smart they will use the FW books to create new subfactions for everyone. Anphelion relic, WL trait and hive fleet adaptation. Minotaurs, Red Scorpions, A Necron Dynasty for Khutlak the World Killer etc etc...

I predict they won't be. But we will see.

Oh, that would be cool!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except Iron Hands are hurting the game, not those units.

Some people just keep getting it wrong.

Yeah, a leviathan is good but in an ih list it becomes phenomenal. The fact that the hellforged version will be nerfed with the loyalist version is just rubbing salt in csm players wounds. First we're not given rules to make the legions viable without souping then they nerf our fw stuff because of all the free buffs loyalists got.

I'm still hoping they fix the points on the super heavys but if they keep the prices the same on loyalist and heretic variants while the loyalists keep all their special rules making them the better version it'll be bittersweet.

I'd like them to actually make Eldar super heavies good again. They're meant to be super advanced equal or superior to imperial equivalents but their rules have sucked.

Maybe if they had a dozen variants they could have the weapons be mediocre, but d bombards etc are the only anti titan weaponz they currently have and they suck compared to warlord guns.

Their holofields are a joke and the skathact has objectively worse melta guns than imperial knights.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except Iron Hands are hurting the game, not those units.

Some people just keep getting it wrong.

Yes, but they can reword what interacts with those units much like the helbrute, which is why i'm curious about the interview source.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except Iron Hands are hurting the game, not those units.

Some people just keep getting it wrong.

Yes, but they can reword what interacts with those units much like the helbrute, which is why i'm curious about the interview source.

That ruins consistency, though. It's strictly the supplements and Iron Hands getting a third part to their trait (double the vehicle damage chart).

Most Forgeworld units need significant power increases.

2,000 points for a Warhound Titan is absurd for a unit that Crimson Hunter Exarchs will just delete off the table in a single turn.

Most FW units need 30-50% points cuts.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except Iron Hands are hurting the game, not those units.

Some people just keep getting it wrong.

Yes, but they can reword what interacts with those units much like the helbrute, which is why i'm curious about the interview source.

That ruins consistency, though. It's strictly the supplements and Iron Hands getting a third part to their trait (double the vehicle damage chart).

As I said the supplements big deal is that they take doctrines, which stand alone add an intreasting degree of decision making to the tactics and turn it into well.. kind of a joke. with justo the doctrines you need to decide when to stay in devestator when to gak to tactical etc.

something like the IH doctrine makes it so that there's no choice at all. you STAY in devestator

I don't care about balance and they will fail to even remotely achieve it. I just want my krieg engineers to be able to arrive with the siege drill, that's all.

BrianDavion wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except Iron Hands are hurting the game, not those units.

Some people just keep getting it wrong.

Yes, but they can reword what interacts with those units much like the helbrute, which is why i'm curious about the interview source.

That ruins consistency, though. It's strictly the supplements and Iron Hands getting a third part to their trait (double the vehicle damage chart).

As I said the supplements big deal is that they take doctrines, which stand alone add an intreasting degree of decision making to the tactics and turn it into well.. kind of a joke. with justo the doctrines you need to decide when to stay in devestator when to gak to tactical etc.

something like the IH doctrine makes it so that there's no choice at all. you STAY in devestator

Remove Super Doctrines, let your army start in the Doctrine it wants. Make a 2-3CP Strat that lets you change it. Make the Super Doctrines into army wide strats that last a turn and cost them appropriately. Seems much more balanced at that point if you ask me.

Lol not necessary to do any of that.

You need to calm down. Here in the UK many Astartes players are jumping to specific Chaos combos. There's plenty of powerful combinations with other armies.

Also 9th is coming soon. Things will change, and if you want more variety in the meantime play the CA19 missions.

 Ishagu wrote:
Lol not necessary to do any of that.

You need to calm down. Here in the UK many Astartes players are jumping to specific Chaos combos. There's plenty of powerful combinations with other armies.

Also 9th is coming soon. Things will change, and if you want more variety in the meantime play the CA19 missions.

By "chaos combos " do you mean the Rube Goldberg devices that csm need to resort to to compete? The problem is certain factions don't need strategems to be effective but with the inordinate number of strategems they have they get pushed through the roof. And some armies can't function without strategems.

Back on topic: if gw wants to balance fw units with codex units then dreadclaws should get the first turn ds rule that loyalist drop pods have.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
With the over abundence of FW models at the recent LVO, team GW released a bit of a shocker, they would be reviewing and revamping all the rules of FW 40k models. while not a major problem to the majority of the average players, this spells doom for seemingly FW dependent lists in ITC/Competitive gaming. They singled out in an interview, The Chaplain dred, the Leviathan Dread, and the Thunderfire Cannon as things which they feel are hurting the game.

Do you think GW will muck this up or will everything become IHs now? I personally feel GW will move to make anything SM related even more powerful as that is their key selling point.

This won't be doom for competitive lists any more than Castellans being nerfed. Competitive players move on and find the next busted thing.

Also I find it hard to believe GW won't accidentally make something else busted instead.

New question: Does anyone want to hazard a guess as to which faction would be least affected by a GW FW rebalancing? Tau/Ad Mech?

Sisters. They get nothing.

 Lance845 wrote:
Sisters. They get nothing.

Repressor will probably get moved to Legends.

Yeah definitely Sisters. They have no current fw models to my recollection.

Most affected would obviously be marines/csm.

I had to vote yes only because of the absurd pts values most FW stuff is saddled with.

So either increase the power of many units to justify the pts, or lower the points by a hefty sum.

As for them F*** it up? I assume they will. And they won't "accidentally" break something else. Oh no. That'll be quite intentional. Afterall, they'll have just ruined your ____. They'll need to sell you a new batch of resin to replace it.
And then they'll feign surprise when you use your new shiny stuff to take advantage of the rules exactly as they're indicating you should.

So other than the astronomical points costs on some models what rules changes are we hoping for? I repeat my idea for dreadclaws getting the steel rain ability. Any others?

Everything from GW needs to be rebalanced. But the rules team are not competent enough to do it.

 Ishagu wrote:
Most Forgeworld units need significant power increases.

This is true, the most common competitive / powerful units in the game right now are GW, not FW.