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Hi,

I’m struggling with paint in white parts of my models. The white citadel paints go lumpy and thick I struggle to thin them down so often features get filled in and detail gets lost. I also struggle to get a bright white. Especially if the model was primed in black for example, raven wing

mrFickle wrote:
Hi,

I’m struggling with paint in white parts of my models. The white citadel paints go lumpy and thick I struggle to thin them down so often features get filled in and detail gets lost. I also struggle to get a bright white. Especially if the model was primed in black for example, raven wing

White and yellows are some of the hardest colors to paint.

try layering on some light grey first, then mix half and half with white, then do a final layer of thinned white.

mrFickle wrote:
Hi,

I’m struggling with paint in white parts of my models. The white citadel paints go lumpy and thick I struggle to thin them down so often features get filled in and detail gets lost. I also struggle to get a bright white. Especially if the model was primed in black for example, raven wing

Depends if you want like a blueish white or creamish white.

Start by changing the base to a zandri dust or a greyish blue. Do this my two thin coats method.

Then apply a medium tier next, ushbati bone or a light grey almost white.

Then apply the white, thinned down. if you are having trouble with citadel white, try the layer white not base white or get a vallejo white. They seem to be better for the brighter colours.

White & other bright colors are more translucent than others, and as such, they rely on the color underneath.

You need to build up to the white. There are many "recipes" for making white work. Show us a color scheme you're going for and we do our best to help you achieve that.

For raven guard color scheme, I second the usage of grey to achieve the white.

Be prepared to put some effort in if you want nice whites. You need to invest in the layers. start off with a grey or light khaki basecoat. Also, bin your gee dub white and get vallejo model colour white instead.

Thanks everyone I’ll try to apply these tips

Yeah.
The other thing that I'll mention is be patient. Don't overwork the same wet paint. Use the biggest brush for the job possible.
Paint a layer, fast in as few strokes as possible, it'll look crap.
Let it dry.
Paint another layer, it'll still look crap.
Let it dry
Paint a layer, it'll look less crap.
Etc

If that's too slow or unrealistic for a large number of models then change your approach.

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
Yeah.
The other thing that I'll mention is be patient. Don't overwork the same wet paint. Use the biggest brush for the job possible.
Paint a layer, fast in as few strokes as possible, it'll look crap.
Let it dry.
Paint another layer, it'll still look crap.
Let it dry
Paint a layer, it'll look less crap.
Etc

If that's too slow or unrealistic for a large number of models then change your approach.

This, but I've found the best solution to .. hmm.. lumpy, crumply, paint is it being thin.. like was thin or close to that. With whites you want thin with lots of layers to prevent the issues. Also NEVER paint over wet or mostly dry whites and yellows.. Thats why most folks ignore white and yellow paintjobs. Patient.

The same issue with whites come up with all light colors. Like fleshtones and similar where they can look like garbage but I've found over the years that flesh looks best in very thin coats layered, as does white, as does yellow. Well actually, everything looks nice when painted on thin and layered up.

Well, there are a couple "tricks" you can try. One is to use a Heavy Body Acrylic titanium white and "thin" it with a white artist ink. Also, you can try either one of those win gloss medium mixed in to and applying that.

As mentioned before, since you primed black, it is likely best to lay down a layer of gray, or several lightening layers of gray first.

But I think no matter what you do, the fact the GW white paint is pretty suboptimal is going to make things difficult for you with what you have. Another note would be that you likely don't need to work in "pure" white. If the rest of the colors are notably darker, even a light gray "read" to your eye as white.

 H wrote:
Well, there are a couple "tricks" you can try. One is to use a Heavy Body Acrylic titanium white and "thin" it with a white artist ink. Also, you can try either one of those win gloss medium mixed in to and applying that.

As mentioned before, since you primed black, it is likely best to lay down a layer of gray, or several lightening layers of gray first.

But I think no matter what you do, the fact the GW white paint is pretty suboptimal is going to make things difficult for you with what you have. Another note would be that you likely don't need to work in "pure" white. If the rest of the colors are notably darker, even a light gray "read" to your eye as white.

To add, if you go full white for your white spots, you won't have the value reserved for the bright spots. Even whites will have darker & brighter areas. It will be best to reserve the white-white value for 'highlights' on the whites rather than going full white.

For the future priming something in white and painting them black is easier then the opposet.

When it comes to white pigments you have two options. Titanium witch has really big pigments, and lead. Lead tastes good, is easy to use and is very poisenus. It can take the place of carbon in your bone structure. So in pracsis that means titanium, and that is why it gets lumpy.

if you can afford it and have space get an airbrush for large volumes of white/yellow. (Be prepared to keep getting dry tip though.. **Sigh** lol)

As others have stated you need to really build up your layers. Many layers... Welcome to the grind!

Alternatively, I've seen good results with apothecary white contrast over gray seer spray can. It might be worth looking into this.

 Niiai wrote:
For the future priming something in white and painting them black is easier then the opposet.

When it comes to white pigments you have two options. Titanium witch has really big pigments, and lead. Lead tastes good, is easy to use and is very poisenus. It can take the place of carbon in your bone structure. So in pracsis that means titanium, and that is why it gets lumpy.

Say what? Why are you tasting lead?

The other alternative is to check out our Pure White from the Alpha line, best smooth, white coverage in around 2-3 layers without having to thin (As it's already thin anyway)

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
For the future priming something in white and painting them black is easier then the opposet.

When it comes to white pigments you have two options. Titanium witch has really big pigments, and lead. Lead tastes good, is easy to use and is very poisenus. It can take the place of carbon in your bone structure. So in pracsis that means titanium, and that is why it gets lumpy.

Say what? Why are you tasting lead?

It's well known fact. Certain forms of lead have been used as sweeteners for wine dating back to Rome.

Also Chinese sold the Brits "green" tea that was made green with Arsenic.

We built just about everything out of the MIRACLE (and it still is quite an amazing substance) Asbestos fiber.

We don't always do smart things.

 meatybtz wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
For the future priming something in white and painting them black is easier then the opposet.

When it comes to white pigments you have two options. Titanium witch has really big pigments, and lead. Lead tastes good, is easy to use and is very poisenus. It can take the place of carbon in your bone structure. So in pracsis that means titanium, and that is why it gets lumpy.

Say what? Why are you tasting lead?

It's well known fact. Certain forms of lead have been used as sweeteners for wine dating back to Rome.

Also Chinese sold the Brits "green" tea that was made green with Arsenic.

We built just about everything out of the MIRACLE (and it still is quite an amazing substance) Asbestos fiber.

We don't always do smart things.

Indeed. I asked because I thought you were talking from personal experience!

Also mercury on the teeth of those born with congenital syphilis (shudder) which I learnt from watching the alienist.

This here is a great example of application of white:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/785258.page

Even whites have their darker areas, which is conveyed very well through the usage of greys.

I use a plain white (happens to be from Vallejo Game Color, but could easily be from GW).
I then thin it with Model Air White - as in, I thin it with a white made for airbrushing.
I always basecoat in a light grey, like Codex Grey (GW) or Stonewall Grey (Vallejo) - especially if the model is otherwise primed in black.
Still.....two thin coats.

I then shade with a very light dark wash. I use my own mix, but imagine taking Nuln Oil and then adding matt medium on a 1-to-1 basis. Then add water with added flow improver (about half the amount of Nuln Oil).

As I write this I realise how complicated the above sounds.

Oil washes are good for white too, as you don't get any tide marks to ruin your fresh white layers.

As other say, layers.

For white Space Marines I
Prime White
Blackline
White layer and touch up - often two passes on parts of the model.
Nuln Oil (or similar) wash
Touch up/highlight

It's sloooow.

I paint using mostly GW paints. For white over black, a tried and true method that works for me is Celestial Grey, Ulthuan Grey and highlight with White Scar. The Clestial Grey covers nicely over black and the process works great for bits and pieces. Depending on the size of the pieces you can skip the Ulthuan Grey

Thanks everyone. I think I certainly have not been patient enough with layering. How many layers do you think for a nice bright white, on top of a grey. And how long does this take really? Considering each layer has to dry properly.

Until it looks right. My whites generally average anywhere from 15-30 layers, aswell as filters and washes, but that's because I'm chasing shadows, and highlights. If you just want flat white, maybe 10?

Started messing around with Grey Seer as my white recently. It feels a little more natural looking compared to most whites I've used. For more cream whites, my favorite is P3 Menoth White Highlight.

What I do to get Corax White and Ceramite White to mix is I stir them before shaking. You can also try throwing an 8mm ball bearing in the bottle. Same thing for White Scar.

What I do for white usually is Ulthuan Grey over Celestra Grey and I save White scar for an edge highlight.

Supershandy wrote:The other alternative is to check out our Pure White from the Alpha line, best smooth, white coverage in around 2-3 layers without having to thin (As it's already thin anyway)

mrFickle wrote:Thanks everyone. I think I certainly have not been patient enough with layering. How many layers do you think for a nice bright white, on top of a grey. And how long does this take really? Considering each layer has to dry properly.

queen_annes_revenge wrote:Until it looks right. My whites generally average anywhere from 15-30 layers, aswell as filters and washes, but that's because I'm chasing shadows, and highlights. If you just want flat white, maybe 10?

I reiterate.....why waste time with layer after layer after layer.

Our new Alpha line makes all this a doddle, there's a video at our youtube channel

Well layers are how you create depth, so you'll forgive me for being skeptical about a paint that only requires one layer. I will watch the video later and see for myself. However. For white with shade and tonal variation I'd be willing to bet that you need to layer.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Well layers are how you create depth, so you'll forgive me for being skeptical about a paint that only requires one layer. I will watch the video later and see for myself. However. For white with shade and tonal variation I'd be willing to bet that you need to layer.

Oh you still need to layer with the Pure White (The Non-Pure usually requires no more than one coat), you just need an awful lot less of them by comparison

mrFickle wrote:
Hi,

I’m struggling with paint in white parts of my models. The white citadel paints go lumpy and thick I struggle to thin them down so often features get filled in and detail gets lost. I also struggle to get a bright white. Especially if the model was primed in black for example, raven wing

Halfords do a nice big white primer. Undercoating with this (or spraying locally, like a powersword ) will give you a nice base to work from.
https://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-and-body-repair/car-spray-paints/halfords-primer-white-500ml-473124.html

So what consistency should my white paint be assuming I use a paint that require around 10 layers? By consistency I mean paint to water, flow enhancer or mediums