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As described in the title. What the hell happened to the phalanxes in total war? I decided to boot up some rome II just to goof around, and the phalanxes in that game where so piss poor I didn't want to play that long (with a myriad of other reasons getting in the way too.)

I booted up the original rome total war and the wall of spears in that game is fantastic! it feels like the wall of death people have to avoid instead of the standard blobing of rome total war. I just cannot understand how much they messed phalanxes up.

Haha I used to just turtle in the corner of the battlefield with my hoplites and watch the enemy run into an unmoveable wall and die.

I didn't play much of Rome II after the first weeks of release, apparently they fixed a lot of it, but what I played disappointed me so much I never went back.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
As described in the title. What the hell happened to the phalanxes in total war? I decided to boot up some rome II just to goof around, and the phalanxes in that game where so piss poor I didn't want to play that long (with a myriad of other reasons getting in the way too.)

I booted up the original rome total war and the wall of spears in that game is fantastic! it feels like the wall of death people have to avoid instead of the standard blobing of rome total war. I just cannot understand how much they messed phalanxes up.

Phalanxes have been made Historical more accurate, meaning hoplites use shorter spears in RTW2 then RTW1 where they used something like a small pike.
Hoplites therefore are now a defensive heavy spearmen with a special defensive buff formation as an option.

If you want an offensive Phalanx you need to recruite now pikemens, which are in essence the RTW 1 hplites/ Pikemen.

However RTW 2 is also sadled with the kill move issue and the New engine used and adapted since ETW which is bad for melee fights making melee somehting only requireing stats and morale, and morale only insofar the unit routes.

Yes you can not use eastern spearmen hordes to break an elite unit in RTW 2 due to that.

They messed phalanxes up with Rome 1 rather than Rome 2. They made them simply too good, and that coloured opinions which have persisted since.

When pike walls in Medieval 2 weren't as effective as Rome 1 phalanxes, there was already a general feeling of "wtf, CA?", and Rome 2 phalanxes being closer to history (and balance) had the same thing.

They simply shouldn't have been as good in Rome 1 as they were. That was the foul up.

Oh, well that is the more interesting idea then! Okay, I accept being wrong with that little mess up, but it may be hard for me to get into Rome 2 all the same. Something about the phalanxes in Rome I really felt good. But, now that I played a game where one unit of milita pikemen basically held off an entire army of chariots, I can see where the problems lie. Good point!

I guess I will go back to Rome 2 and try again, but I ran into a new problem. How the heck do you unlock Macedon?

Macedon should already be unlocked.

If I remember correctly (I've not got it installed at the moment, because the game's still about as stable as my emotional state) it should be under the Greek/Hellenic Culture option when picking your faction.

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Macedon should already be unlocked.

If I remember correctly (I've not got it installed at the moment, because the game's still about as stable as my emotional state) it should be under the Greek/Hellenic Culture option when picking your faction.

No, it is in the sucessor tab.
The greek cities are seperate.

Well I remember the days of RTW1 of having siege defence battles and holding a street with 2x levi Pikemen standing stacked on top of eachother and then some skirmishers just in front of their pikes. Just absorbing wave after wave of elite/ legionaries until they broke... It was hilarious and somewhat satisfying ala castle defence game... But also very inaccurate

I haven't played in a while but the RTW2 phalanx units are a lot more accurate now and you actualy take attrition damage.. However if you can use buildings and some terrain to secure a flank and they are still beastly.

But realistically, even on open ground infantry, especialy heavy infantry, would eventualy be able to fight their way into the pikes and start cutting their way in between the individual battalion blocks (syntagmas) and inflict casualties..

 Argive wrote:
Well I remember the days of RTW1 of having siege defence battles and holding a street with 2x levi Pikemen standing stacked on top of eachother and then some skirmishers just in front of their pikes. Just absorbing wave after wave of elite/ legionaries until they broke... It was hilarious and somewhat satisfying ala castle defence game... But also very inaccurate

I haven't played in a while but the RTW2 phalanx units are a lot more accurate now and you actualy take attrition damage.. However if you can use buildings and some terrain to secure a flank and they are still beastly.

But realistically, even on open ground infantry, especialy heavy infantry, would eventualy be able to fight their way into the pikes and start cutting their way in between the individual battalion blocks (syntagmas) and inflict casualties..

In Greek the battalions were called taxis, syntagmas were analogous to company, being half of an pentacosiachies.

The Macedonians "block" units were essentialy a battalion apparently 260 odd men in one block as far as I recall. Maybe Im mistaken and don't recall the source correctly.

The Macedonian Phalanx block was a battalion (taxis) of 1536 men (this was the tactical unit), which was divided into three companies (pentacosiachies) of 512 men, divided into half for adminastrative puposes into syntagmas and the smallest unit was a file of ten (later 16). Sources- Plutach, Arrian, Fuller, Tarn, Xenophon and Droysen off the top of my head.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Macedon should already be unlocked.

If I remember correctly (I've not got it installed at the moment, because the game's still about as stable as my emotional state) it should be under the Greek/Hellenic Culture option when picking your faction.

No, it is in the sucessor tab.
The greek cities are seperate.

Is that a dlc I would have to buy? Or does it come with the base game? Still couldn’t find it for the life of me.

 ingtaer wrote:
The Macedonian Phalanx block was a battalion (taxis) of 1536 men (this was the tactical unit), which was divided into three companies (pentacosiachies) of 512 men, divided into half for adminastrative puposes into syntagmas and the smallest unit was a file of ten (later 16). Sources- Plutach, Arrian, Fuller, Tarn, Xenophon and Droysen off the top of my head.

Dang im rusty. Havent properly read Xenophon since classics at college lol (17 years ago yaaaiiiks...).
I was remembering that terms of physical formation, essentialy a century would be going up against its equivalent tightly packed Syntagmas and trying to cut/push their way through the pikes and into the gaps between the Syntagmatas cant remember where I read that though.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Macedon should already be unlocked.

If I remember correctly (I've not got it installed at the moment, because the game's still about as stable as my emotional state) it should be under the Greek/Hellenic Culture option when picking your faction.

No, it is in the sucessor tab.
The greek cities are seperate.

Is that a dlc I would have to buy? Or does it come with the base game? Still couldn’t find it for the life of me.

Im not sure. It may be locked until you compelte the campaign as one of the starting faction/kill Macedon.
I have all the factions unlocked + DLCs and its been a long time since I first got the game.

Seleucids for life though!!! Bactria is pretty fun campaign/easy mode..
Damn I really wanna play some TW now.. I think once I get in from work im a have a little bash. Maybe start as the suebi…

WHTW2 is fun but not enough battles in my current playthrough. I'm turn scrolling through large segments in between adminining economics. Currently playing as Malekith on my first DE campaign and just invaded ulthaun but I sailed around and went at it from the south east.. they never expected it muahhaa

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:
Macedon should already be unlocked.

If I remember correctly (I've not got it installed at the moment, because the game's still about as stable as my emotional state) it should be under the Greek/Hellenic Culture option when picking your faction.

No, it is in the sucessor tab.
The greek cities are seperate.

Is that a dlc I would have to buy? Or does it come with the base game? Still couldn’t find it for the life of me.

The greek cities, you know athens, sparta and epirus, were indeed first day pre order DLC.

Macedon wasn't, but macedon is not athens or sparta.

There was at the time quite a bit of outrage going on.

Maybe start as the suebi…

There is only one strategy: the clublevy blob. There is also only one tribe worth of play, the Allemani.

Found where Macedon is, and it helped I finally learned that their emblem is different to the emblem in total war Rome 1.

I am finding the battles in Rome two fairly dull though, but I guess that is because I am used to having a wizard around. The wizards in total warhammer really gives the player something more to do besides wait, which is sort of a pain when you’re doing some hopilite on spartan action.

But, I will say I am liking the phalanxes a bit more knowing that Rome 1’s where the broken editions. Still feels weird that the formation pretty much turns to a blob when combat starts, but what can you do?

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
Found where Macedon is, and it helped I finally learned that their emblem is different to the emblem in total war Rome 1.

I am finding the battles in Rome two fairly dull though, but I guess that is because I am used to having a wizard around. The wizards in total warhammer really gives the player something more to do besides wait, which is sort of a pain when you’re doing some hopilite on spartan action.

But, I will say I am liking the phalanxes a bit more knowing that Rome 1’s where the broken editions. Still feels weird that the formation pretty much turns to a blob when combat starts, but what can you do?

Blame CA using an engine made for GUNPOWDER WARFARE, in an ancient placed game.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
Found where Macedon is, and it helped I finally learned that their emblem is different to the emblem in total war Rome 1.

I am finding the battles in Rome two fairly dull though, but I guess that is because I am used to having a wizard around. The wizards in total warhammer really gives the player something more to do besides wait, which is sort of a pain when you’re doing some hopilite on spartan action.

But, I will say I am liking the phalanxes a bit more knowing that Rome 1’s where the broken editions. Still feels weird that the formation pretty much turns to a blob when combat starts, but what can you do?

Blame CA using an engine made for GUNPOWDER WARFARE, in an ancient placed game.

Yea, I will blame them. But, was the warhammer games built on the same engine? Blobbing in the total warhammer games don’t feel as weird as they do in Rome 2.