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So four choices for a scion list for an upcoming tourney.

Which one do you think is the best choice?

Core detachment - drop force battalion of storm troopers in Valkyries with plasma.

Joining them is one of the following 5 choices.

1) A Shadowsword.

2) 4 Bullgryns in a Valkyrie (would be added to their detachment not be a new one). All the fun of trying to make 9" charges.

3) A Lambdan Lion battalion with 2 gatling/Hot Shot taurox. 70 str 4 shots at 24" with an extra -1ap from being lions and a 5++ save. All the dakka and 13 CPs.

4) A artillery spearhead. 3 basilisks/1 wyven, 1 manticore, 1 basilisk/some variation on 3 artillery pieces. All the indirect fire.

5) An artillery battalion. Loyal 32, plus heavy weapons team and 2 artillery pieces. Less indirect fire but 13 CPs to make the bassie fire twice each turn.

Is the tournament using ITC rules?

the_scotsman wrote:
Is the tournament using ITC rules?

I hope not as they seem to drain the fun out of playing from what friends who have tried it tell me.

Looking at the pack they are using 'eternal war' missions, front line warfare, the four pillars, dominate and destroy, scorched earth and crusade. Secondary stuff is 'maelstrom of war'. Games use chapter approved 2019 for first turn.

As I normally play narrative games I have no idea what the above mean, but aren't that fussed.

A lot depends on how much you invest in your valks and dropstrikers and how much you are putting into not scions pointwise.

Any thoughts?

Dukeofstuff wrote:
A lot depends on how much you invest in your valks and dropstrikers and how much you are putting into not scions pointwise.

Any thoughts?

The Valks get the majority of the points - 2 valks, 2 primes, 4 squads/3 squads and command squad depending on points. 300-400 for the secondary formation.

You will need some sort of anvil to anchor your lines (such as they are with the Tempestus). My $0.02 would be for Bulgryns

I run a larger army of 3 valk with a lot of scions and only 1 10 man squad of non-scion troops in it, the backline I use is manticore tank aces that are essentially a distraction carnifax designed entirely to draw the enemy out of position so the scions can strike.

for your smaller size of points, maybe,
108 = tank ace basilisk full payload
30 = obligatory cadian company commander
30 = obligatory cadian company commander
159 = ig regulars (3 squads). Each is armed with grenade launcher and missle launcher.

Do not make the mistake of putting these cadians troop near the basilisk, which is a writeoff if the enemy crosses the center line to come kill it. The whole point of the basilisk is to annoy the enemy into bringing something that will without ANY doubt cost more than 108 points into the far back corner of the board to kill it, or its to bring down a hail of fire on something the enemy spent more than 108 points to buy.

The gaurd regulars you deploy up the midfield, more, and if you know you are going to take it in the shorts cause the other guy is GOING to be first turn move, you can even consider loading a squad in each of your two valkyries and posiitioning them to do a turn 1 alpha strike all their own, while the basilisk sucks the enemy out of position. In that emergency all your plasma and tempestors go to deepstrike.

The point is, your larger scion force, it is going to erase half the enemy's total firepower if you use it carefully, and he is split between the corner you just lost a cannon in and his own backfield. At 1000 points, its very, very hard to have screen elements enough to protect more than one tiny corner from precision drop scions.

Note that I also always run the valks heavy -- 2mrp/2hb/1lascannon .. cause they are taking over the role of the wyvern you didn't buy.

Dukeofstuff wrote:
I run a larger army of 3 valk with a lot of scions and only 1 10 man squad of non-scion troops in it, the backline I use is manticore tank aces that are essentially a distraction carnifax designed entirely to draw the enemy out of position so the scions can strike.

for your smaller size of points, maybe,
108 = tank ace basilisk full payload
30 = obligatory cadian company commander
30 = obligatory cadian company commander
159 = ig regulars (3 squads). Each is armed with grenade launcher and missle launcher.

Do not make the mistake of putting these cadians troop near the basilisk, which is a writeoff if the enemy crosses the center line to come kill it. The whole point of the basilisk is to annoy the enemy into bringing something that will without ANY doubt cost more than 108 points into the far back corner of the board to kill it, or its to bring down a hail of fire on something the enemy spent more than 108 points to buy.

The gaurd regulars you deploy up the midfield, more, and if you know you are going to take it in the shorts cause the other guy is GOING to be first turn move, you can even consider loading a squad in each of your two valkyries and posiitioning them to do a turn 1 alpha strike all their own, while the basilisk sucks the enemy out of position. In that emergency all your plasma and tempestors go to deepstrike.

The point is, your larger scion force, it is going to erase half the enemy's total firepower if you use it carefully, and he is split between the corner you just lost a cannon in and his own backfield. At 1000 points, its very, very hard to have screen elements enough to protect more than one tiny corner from precision drop scions.

Note that I also always run the valks heavy -- 2mrp/2hb/1lascannon .. cause they are taking over the role of the wyvern you didn't buy.

Which regiment you choose?

I use cadians by preference for their ability -- not to be underestimated -- to stand still under orders and reroll all their shots. Normal gaurd you don't want to invest in missle/grenade launchers so much because they get their effect from first rank second rank -- but cadians with "take aim" can put out their moderately effective anti-tank across half the board, rerolling 1,2,3's to hit. If even on such weapon scratches a target (and you have cp left to blow) you can jin up your manticore or basilisk to START firing at +1, reroll 1's cause its cadian, and possibly more if you are using old grudges or a relic of lost that round. This can make 10 shots off a manticore WICKED effective at 3 damage each, for example, and you can even further boost manticores with their strategy to give one a further +1 if you have LOS to the target.

If your enemy instead brings a horde, you would have 6 grenade and missle launchers at moderate range, adn the flyer firepower as well, as anti-horde, before the armies clash. Its not perfect but again, cadians can dish out a pretty high hit rate.

I know the custom regimentals are not bad, but I like putting the relic of lost cadia on one of those commanders, which lets you kick your manticore line into high gear one turn even if you need to suddenly reposition -- and of coruse, against chaos, you position things so everyone rerolls all their hits and wounds from the relic, and hopefully blow a few demon priince or a mortarian to flinders.

I occasionally run them as valhallan, though, for the way cool ability to shoot into melee combat and surprise the termagants or whatever that thought they had your guys on the ropes.

Iotan Gorgonnes make a fantastic choice unit too - their unique stratagem is great for dropping Flamers in range - hell just make a 10 man squad and drop them with Daring Descent into Flamer and RF range - it does lovely things to enemy units. One funny trick I sometimes do (if my enemy hasn't brought blobs) is to drop a Flamer squad next to a Flyer and then have a Prime drop 4" away from them (9" from Flyer), and give them Elimination Protocols Sanctioned. So 4D6 autohits with 5+ W that reroll? The usual result is turning a Valkyrie into something that can't hit anything unless it goes to Hover Mode. Then there's my favourite option: roasting Tau Drones or Markerlights...

I second the gorgonnes being aswesome and that strategem is the reason.
If you do that with flamers bring an astropath to strip cover, its critical because the flamers are ap0, and you can double their effect by taking cover off of (for example) marine infantry.
My own playstyle is different, I consider flamers way too expensive for what they give -- ap0 shots only work reliably on hordes and hordes are rare these days.For the gorgonne close drop, I prefer a 10 man squad of base scions, which puts out about as many shots, and hits nearly as many times, but you can spend a cp to make each shot s4 and they are all -2 ap. So the net effect is, I think, almost always better, or certainly very close to as good, but you spent 24 points less. Especially if you stack laurels of ocmmand onto the tempestor giving the order (then frfsrf + a 50 percent chance of elimination protocols) and (-1 cp for half range or less enhanced strength to the hotshots.) it becomes a real powerhouse of screen removal even against things like sisters of battle in cover. Again, astropath! .. but ap-2 is fairly useful evenif you can't line one up.

The enemy response is going to find a unit out front of your forces that is very cheap but manages to smiteblock the rest of them, too.