Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Even in the HH series, that's still very much implied to be the case.

Guilliman and the Lion are breaking through the Ruinstorm and rushing to reach Terra (Russ is unconscious after failing to kill Horus at Trisolian), and their advance hastens Horus, as well as the power of Chaos slowly killing Horus as his body struggles to handle all the power the gods give him.

There's definitely a bit of a dichotomy in portrayals of the Lion (between grand military strategist and monster hunter). I would have preferred a lean toward the former over the latter just for the benefit of variety, as there's enough beatstick primarchs out there. Happy to have a model either way though, after so long!

To echo previous statements though, primarch duels usually means both are removed from the game (as the fight just takes too long). Or, in personal experience, a primarch holds down his brother while an entourage beats them to death with power fists. I think efficiency is more readily judged by army buffing and ranged ability, hence Alpharius being a clear contender.

Any buff the Lion will give will be from the Sire of the First trait, which we've not seen.
If that ends up being a major buff on top of his melee abilities then I honestly don't think I'd be able to put him on the table

 BroodSpawn wrote:
Any buff the Lion will give will be from the Sire of the First trait, which we've not seen.
If that ends up being a major buff on top of his melee abilities then I honestly don't think I'd be able to put him on the table

I don't see the problem honestly.
Underneath all of his rules, he seems to fight just like Guilliman. Wolf Blade is a really nice weapon, but the Gladius and the Hand give Guilliman more flexibility. Defense-wise Guilliman gets his rerolls every phase rather than every turn, but it sounds like Lion has a better gun. Lion gets angrier with damage, but let's face it he was already going to kill anything short of another Primarch.
Guilliman then adds on almost a full page-length of army support rules and still only tops out at 400pts.
Lion could very easily get a handful of support rules, a decent Sire rule, and make Deathwing Companions as powerful as Invictarus Suzerains, and still end up in the low 400s.

When it comes down to it, he's an infantry model with 6" of movement and might see 3 turns of combat on a good day. Certainly nothing to complain about when we have Magnus and Alpharius doing their thing.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Even in the HH series, that's still very much implied to be the case.

Guilliman and the Lion are breaking through the Ruinstorm and rushing to reach Terra (Russ is unconscious after failing to kill Horus at Trisolian), and their advance hastens Horus, as well as the power of Chaos slowly killing Horus as his body struggles to handle all the power the gods give him.

Guilliman is new to the party though - originally, Horus had managed to have him and his Legion be basically on the other side of the galaxy, and it was Russ and Johnson who were rushing to Terra together - despite their differences, those two were actually good friends.
Their arrival was delayed a bit because Johnson kept insisting they secure planets that would be vital to the Imperium post-heresy. Russ always thought afterwards that that was why they arrived too late, even if logically it would not have mattered had they arrived earlier.
It actually made for a compelling story.

Edit: damn my thick sausage fingers.

Bran Dawri wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Even in the HH series, that's still very much implied to be the case.

Guilliman and the Lion are breaking through the Ruinstorm and rushing to reach Terra (Russ is unconscious after failing to kill Horus at Trisolian), and their advance hastens Horus, as well as the power of Chaos slowly killing Horus as his body struggles to handle all the power the gods give him.

Guilliman is new to the party though - originally, Horus had managed to have him and his Legion be basically on the other side of the galaxy, and it was Russ and Johnson who were rushing to Terra together - despite their differences, those two were actually good friends.

As far as I remember, Guilliman was ALSO always distracted and held up by Horus, but was hot on his heels, and was another reason why Horus rushed his invasion.

Basically, three Legions were all coming, in one way or another, none of which Horus particularly wanted to deal with, and Guilliman was the one who marshalled everyone together in the immediate aftermath and led the bulk of the Scouring campaign. If they do that still has yet to be seen.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
As far as I remember, Guilliman was ALSO always distracted and held up by Horus, but was hot on his heels, and was another reason why Horus rushed his invasion.

Basically, three Legions were all coming, in one way or another, none of which Horus particularly wanted to deal with, and Guilliman was the one who marshalled everyone together in the immediate aftermath and led the bulk of the Scouring campaign. If they do that still has yet to be seen.

IIRC the biggest issue with Guilliman, withholding any virtues of the primarch himself, was the simple fact that the Ultramarines were the biggest Legion. Adding that volume of military asset to Terra is bad news bears for heretics.

I wonder how Perturabo fares against the Lion? Probably doesn’t dish enough damage to knock him out but might be able to hold him down for enough turns for it not to matter?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/04/27/primarch-death-match-part-1-loyalists/

Warhammer Community just published a ladder match between the loyalist Primarchs.

no gak

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
Johnson was known as a Grand Strategist, not a melee duelist powerhouse.

He is described as both. The Lion defeats Curze, who Russ doubted he himself could defeat.

Doesn't Kurze strangle the Lion and is only saved by one of his officers stabbing Kurze in the back?

Yes, in the first of three fights. In the final fight,



Source, Angels of Caliban.

In the GW battle royale, I was disappointed that Perturabo lost in the first round, I think to Fulgrim. Seems like he should have been able to shrug off a bunch with the 3++ and then smash everyone with Forgebreaker. But I can't remember him having Forgebreaker in the fight. Maybe Ferrus was still using it in the Loyalist battle, because he still had his head attached?