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A marine is extremely buff super soldier. They should be able to handle a bit of recoil. Besides, look at the AA 12 , efficient recoil countering systems means you can fire it pretty much single handed. If we can do that with an automatic 12 gauge shotgun (18.5mm), I think futuretechmagic can do that with a low velocity 20mm.

A rocket needs space to build momentum, space you don't have in a assault weapon, it does not have the explosive speed of gunpowder and other such propellants.


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Racerguy180 wrote:
firing 7.62x51mm in full auto is a handful for me (2m tall 115kg), a ma deuce would be similarly uncontrollable for anyone not astartes/ogryn. especially being combat effective. the rocket assist would definately help w maintaining target lock on something moving(i.e.ork, gaunt, spawn, etc) or dumbass cultists. Having the autosenses linked to the projectile would help with killing stuff. Black carapace integration would be even more effective.

I wish I could have such fun guns over here although specialist rounds (primaris have some...) do have tracking and targeting ability so the suggestion is regular rounds would not.

Yeah the rocket is only really suitable for long distances. I think its a case of them making something that sounded cool, especially in the 80s, but doesnt really stand up to modern scrutiny (I know its the future, sci fi yeah blah blah)

Shotgun range is not ideal for an assault rifle however. Something to boost the range is needed. The rocket does not necessarily need to accelerate the round, but slow down its deceleration.

Low velocity on impact would also mean low penetration. And you still would want to penetrate flak type armour.

With future tech you would think that they would just invent something (maybe Grav based) to cope with the recoil.

Hence low velocity 20mm, I'm talking more a shortened cannon round with advanced recoil compensation instead of a shotgun round.

Extra range would be a good reason to have that rocket propulsion. This is a technology that's actually used on some artillery shells, where you have plenty of time after the shell has left the cannon to get that boost and fly a few extra kilometers.

Also, shooting bigger projectiles means you need bigger explosions and a barrel can only handle so much pressure before it bursts, so rocket propulsion is a way to move heavier loads. Of course, this applies more to massive artillery cannons than to rifles... but you need to have something to make the rifles science fictiony after all

 Tiennos wrote:
Extra range would be a good reason to have that rocket propulsion. This is a technology that's actually used on some artillery shells, where you have plenty of time after the shell has left the cannon to get that boost and fly a few extra kilometers.

Also, shooting bigger projectiles means you need bigger explosions and a barrel can only handle so much pressure before it bursts, so rocket propulsion is a way to move heavier loads. Of course, this applies more to massive artillery cannons than to rifles... but you need to have something to make the rifles science fictiony after all

I do remember hearing that modern artillery rounds do have tiny rockets in them. It's just to help defeat drag as air rushes over the back of the shell. As tiny as the rockets are I believe it added 25% to the range of the projectile.

I also think that bolters would work like an automatic 10 gauge magnum shotgun . True, it would be bad for an assault rifle, but I dont think it much matters. Most infantry engagements are around 100 meters. Beyond 100m is usually the work space of heavy weapons and artillery. Space marines deploy as close to their enemies as possible and wear heavy armor. An effective range of 200 meters would be fine. SMs aren't snipers. That's neophyte work. Leave it to the scout company.

I agree that "science fiction" would fill in the gaps as far as range goes. Maybe sci fi could take the bolter's range out to 300m. There would probably be a small guidance system too. Nothing too accurate, it is the Grim Dark after all.

 Red Marine wrote:

I do remember hearing that modern artillery rounds do have tiny rockets in them. It's just to help defeat drag as air rushes over the back of the shell. As tiny as the rockets are I believe it added 25% to the range of the projectile.

Those are base bleed munitions. Rocket assisted projectiles are different and add velocity rather than reducing drag. Base bleed was invented in the 1960's; and Rocket Assisted Projectiles in WW2.

Yeah, given marines have a helmet that should be kitted with optical and targeting/tracking systems, a hybrid rocket/ballistic powered munition should kill people pretty consistently out to 1000m and beyond.

If it has appropriate ammo it should kill astartes too.

We are talking about super soldiers that have nothing better to do than thousands of hours of range time.

Bolter is a let down basically.

I dont think the Bolter is a let down. I think the writers just try to make the Bolter too many things for too many people/ scenarios. In some stories it's a sniper rifle. In others a heavy machine gun. If they settled on a number of positive and negative features for the gun AND gave it table top rules supporting it, the Fandom wouldn't argue this point so often.

Debating what it's real world abilities might be is fun, but I think it comes down to head cannon. What stats in the fluff you like combined with real guns and the stats in the TT rules. For me the Bolter is akin to a heavy submachine gun. Its range should probably be shorter but its performance should be a little better. Probably something more akin to a shuriken catapult. Oddly, I always thought CWE Guardians should have had a more conventional 24" rapid fire weapon.

Personally I feel the astartes are the best and deserve the best. Not some glorified cut down heavy stubber.

I see the bolter as a kind of carbine, a service rifle geared towards close engagment.
But I believe it should be able to combat armoured enemies out to 1km. It should be very accurate (these things are artificer made, in other words custom barrels, bedding ect, work carried out by the finest gunsmiths from entire sectors) mechanically the astartes pattern* bolter should be a work of art.

Couple that with the helmet's battle systems and a veteran with thousands of hours of range time and thousands of hours of combat experience and what you should have in my view, what every spacemarine is. Very lethal, very efficient shock trooper. Also I disregard the notion that is a 4 shot burst fire weapon. Because a spacemarine, or scout, should be able to send as many rounds down range as they want using semi/fully auto, and have them hit where they want. If not how are they super human, and how would you justify their selection processes and combat training? Might as well give scions their accuracy roll...

*(because I refuse to believe a spacemarine and a guardsman have the same sized/calibre gun)