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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/04/01 18:55:49
Subject: Question about Forge worlds and Squiggoths
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Hello friends
I have questions. Noob questions
So im new to warhammer tabletop (not warhammer in general just tabletop) and i got to love the 40k part from Dawn of war 1. Before that i had some warhammer fantasy battle figures from chaos but thats beside the point.
I started Collecting Orks 1 week ago and ive glued together and spray painted my first Ork collectors box (nobs, boys, a deff dread and a pain boy). I have yet to actually paint them though as the spray paint is drying.
Question 1:
What exactly is Forge world? and how are they different from games workshop. because Forge world seemingly sells figures that ive seen before in the warhammer universe that i cant find on games workshop own website. like the Squiggoth!
Question 2:
Speaking of Squiggoths! I have the 8th edition ork codex, but when i looked through the codex, i was surprised to see that there werent any Squiggoths? Yet from dawn of war 1, which i understand is from an earlier codex, there were squiggoths. But Squiggoths are still sold on the Forge world webpage.
Does that mean units from Forge world webpage cant be used? can i not use a Squiggoth in a battle? is it from an older Codex thats no longer valid? because the squiggoth stats arent showed in the 8th edition codex. But its a shame if i cant use it, because the Squiggoth is by far the coolest ork unit ever.
appearence wise, no idea gameplay wise. And i understand other units can do what it does better, im not so much interested in whether its efficient, im interested in knowing if im legally allowed to use it in a tournement. and if yes, why the heck does it not show up in the ork Codex? i thought the Codex was a place where all ORK units were meant to be placed so i could see their stats. but i have no idea what the Squiggoth and gargantuan Squiggoth have of stats. nor where to even find them.
thanks for the help.
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Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/04/01 19:05:04
Subject: Question about Forge worlds and Squiggoths
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Fixture of Dakka
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Units from forgeworld have their own rules that are sold by forgeworld. So the squiggoth should have rules in a forgeworld book but they're a bit muddled by the virus going round shutting down GW's stuff.
Forgeworld basically sells fancier models with different rules, makes rules/models for 30k and some specialist game stuff.
You can use forgeworld in any game you like though.
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/04/01 19:13:33
Subject: Question about Forge worlds and Squiggoths
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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Forgeworld is the boutique end of the company and works from the very same factory site in Nottingham. It's changed a bit over the years, but its basically the "delux/optional/creative" wing of the company.
Forgeworld models are only sold through forgeworld, they don't distribute to 3rd parties nor GW stores. Otherwise no retailer will carry them (really good local game stores might order them in for you, but there's basically no profit for them since FW doesn't sell to retail - only direct off their website).
Forgeworld models have their own rules, however at present they are under review for 40K and new books should be coming out at any point - though the Corona 19 outbreak and shutdown of GW at present has clearly caused delays there. The old rules were sold in 4 Imperial Armour volumes - each one detailing a different block of units and races.
Note in the past FW models were considered "With opponents permission" and were typically not accepted at tournaments. This was way back when FW was the only place to get things bigger than a dreadnought. When huge models were only practical in resin. That coupled to super-heavies back then being basically untouchable except by specific counter units - made a good portion of FW's larger and more famous models very broken in the game. Today its different and its more generally accepted.
Shifts in the games structure and balance; GW Main body now doing superheavies and also the opening up of online ordering to being a more regular and normal thing. Even the FW prices are closer to GW ones now for the bigger models.
Note that just like the main studio things do go in and out of production at FW. Some things leave and some return all the time. So you might find some models that are referenced that are no longer sold.
Sometimes you can pick them up secondhand, but be cautious as there are a lot of illegal recastings of FW stuff out there.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/04/01 19:57:38
Subject: Question about Forge worlds and Squiggoths
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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The rules for the Squiggoth are in Forge World's book seroes (which covers forge world minis) called Imperial Armour. Specifically, Index Imperial Armour Xenos, though another Imperial Armour series may come in the future to update the rules (as usual). Rumor has it some time this summer, if the world isn't Mad Max by then  .
The Squiggoth is a fine model as well, so good choice! There are two versions; the 'little' Squiggoth (about the size of a Battlewagon) never showed up in Dawn of War 1. The Gargantuan Squiggoth, which is positively mammoth (easily as big or bigger than a Baneblade) was the Ork relic unit from DoW1.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/04/01 20:28:23
Subject: Question about Forge worlds and Squiggoths
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Lieutenant General
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Unit1126PLL wrote:The rules for the Squiggoth are in Forge World's book seroes (which covers forge world minis) called Imperial Armour. Specifically, Index Imperial Armour Xenos, though another Imperial Armour series may come in the future to update the rules (as usual). GW confirmed updated rules for Forge World units and armies at the Las Vegas Open back in January: Since the release of the Forge World indexes a couple of years ago, Warhammer 40,000 has changed a lot. While the indexes were a great reference resource, we want to give you something even better – which is why the Warhammer 40,000 studio embarked on a project to bring you a series of all-new books with updated rules for these units and armies. To make room for these new, mysterious books, the Forge World indexes will be disappearing, though the rules will remain in use until the new books arrive. We’re letting you know now so you’ve got a chance to pick them up if you’re missing any. We’ll have more news soon, so keep an eye out.
So while they will be delayed due to the COVID-19 pandemic, I don't see them being cancelled outright.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/01 21:35:24
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/04/01 21:14:39
Subject: Question about Forge worlds and Squiggoths
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
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Ghaz wrote: Unit1126PLL wrote:The rules for the Squiggoth are in Forge World's book seroes (which covers forge world minis) called Imperial Armour. Specifically, Index Imperial Armour Xenos, though another Imperial Armour series may come in the future to update the rules (as usual).
Gw confirmed updated rules for Forge World units and armies at the Las Vegas Open back in January:
Since the release of the Forge World indexes a couple of years ago, Warhammer 40,000 has changed a lot. While the indexes were a great reference resource, we want to give you something even better – which is why the Warhammer 40,000 studio embarked on a project to bring you a series of all-new books with updated rules for these units and armies.
To make room for these new, mysterious books, the Forge World indexes will be disappearing, though the rules will remain in use until the new books arrive. We’re letting you know now so you’ve got a chance to pick them up if you’re missing any. We’ll have more news soon, so keep an eye out.
So while they will be delayed due to the COVID-19 pandemic, I don't see them being cancelled outright.
The current Indexes, including ebooks, have been completely removed from the fw site, so I'd guess the new Indexes are close, at least in ebook form.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/04/02 09:09:14
Subject: Question about Forge worlds and Squiggoths
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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Beardedragon wrote:appearence wise, no idea gameplay wise. And i understand other units can do what it does better, im not so much interested in whether its efficient, im interested in knowing if im legally allowed to use it in a tournement. and if yes, why the heck does it not show up in the ork Codex? i thought the Codex was a place where all ORK units were meant to be placed so i could see their stats. but i have no idea what the Squiggoth and gargantuan Squiggoth have of stats. nor where to even find them.
The other posters have already answered the questions in regard to forgeworld and where to get the gargantuan squiggoth's rules, so I'm going to go into "gameplay wise" part.
The gargantuan squiggoths (that's the one you're looking for) is probably the best Lord of War orks have, which isn't saying much, but there is a decent chance to actually get some mileage out of it. Put a good shooting unit inside, like flash gits or tank bustas, have it run up the field and stomp on whatever gets in your way. Protect it with a KFF so big guns don't eat through it and bring vehicles or walkers along with it which have a good chance of arriving at their destination unharmed by the time the big lizard inevitably goes down. Just make sure you use it in a supreme command detachment, so it gets the culture bonuses - it doesn't get those in a superheavy auxiliary.
The regular squiggoths are basically trukks with better fighting skills. As transports don't do well this edition, neither do the small squiggoths.
A word of advise from an old guy who also loved playing orks in DoW - be very, very sure you want to pay that much money on one model before spending it. Instead of the gargantuan squiggoth, you can get an entire ork army made of whatever you want, with extra models to switch around and try.
Forgeworld is targeted at players who already have a functioning army and know their way around it, not at people starting out.
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7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/04/02 10:07:02
Subject: Question about Forge worlds and Squiggoths
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Jidmah wrote:Beardedragon wrote:appearence wise, no idea gameplay wise. And i understand other units can do what it does better, im not so much interested in whether its efficient, im interested in knowing if im legally allowed to use it in a tournement. and if yes, why the heck does it not show up in the ork Codex? i thought the Codex was a place where all ORK units were meant to be placed so i could see their stats. but i have no idea what the Squiggoth and gargantuan Squiggoth have of stats. nor where to even find them.
The other posters have already answered the questions in regard to forgeworld and where to get the gargantuan squiggoth's rules, so I'm going to go into "gameplay wise" part.
The gargantuan squiggoths (that's the one you're looking for) is probably the best Lord of War orks have, which isn't saying much, but there is a decent chance to actually get some mileage out of it. Put a good shooting unit inside, like flash gits or tank bustas, have it run up the field and stomp on whatever gets in your way. Protect it with a KFF so big guns don't eat through it and bring vehicles or walkers along with it which have a good chance of arriving at their destination unharmed by the time the big lizard inevitably goes down. Just make sure you use it in a supreme command detachment, so it gets the culture bonuses - it doesn't get those in a superheavy auxiliary.
The regular squiggoths are basically trukks with better fighting skills. As transports don't do well this edition, neither do the small squiggoths.
A word of advise from an old guy who also loved playing orks in DoW - be very, very sure you want to pay that much money on one model before spending it. Instead of the gargantuan squiggoth, you can get an entire ork army made of whatever you want, with extra models to switch around and try.
Forgeworld is targeted at players who already have a functioning army and know their way around it, not at people starting out.
Oh well. i have absolutely no interest in a gargantuan squiggoth right now i dont even have an HQ unit. im just talking about my future here, and it made me sad if i couldnt use squiggoths in the future.
What i dont get is why the codex doesnt include all units you can use as an ork player, when thats otherwise the idea behind the codex. whether they are distributed by FW or GW shouldnt matter in that regard. having two different books just to see rules is just weird.
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Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/04/02 11:21:37
Subject: Question about Forge worlds and Squiggoths
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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Beardedragon wrote:Oh well. i have absolutely no interest in a gargantuan squiggoth right now i dont even have an HQ unit. im just talking about my future here, and it made me sad if i couldnt use squiggoths in the future. What i dont get is why the codex doesnt include all units you can use as an ork player, when thats otherwise the idea behind the codex. whether they are distributed by FW or GW shouldnt matter in that regard. having two different books just to see rules is just weird.
Well, the ork codex includes everything in the regular model range. All the datasheets you'll ever need to play are in here.* Forgeworld is a completely separate thing. The models are vastly more expensive, more difficult to build and paint and have more funky rules. It's what you get when you have spare money and want a cool model to add to your army. I'm playing orks for ten years now, have over 10,000 points worth of models and don't own a single FW model. Forgeworld is a premium service that is absolutely optional. Some events even ban FW models. The only weird thing is that the DoW 1 team picked the Squiggoth when designing the game - as far as I know, all other non-plane units in that game are codex units. DoW 2 and 3 use the battlewagon and the morkanaut respectively, both found in the codex. *technically, you also need the Vigilus Defiant and Saga of the Beast books, as well as Legends to have all ork rules for "basic" Warhammer40k.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/04/02 11:23:56
7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/04/02 12:52:40
Subject: Question about Forge worlds and Squiggoths
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Jidmah wrote:Beardedragon wrote:Oh well. i have absolutely no interest in a gargantuan squiggoth right now i dont even have an HQ unit. im just talking about my future here, and it made me sad if i couldnt use squiggoths in the future.
What i dont get is why the codex doesnt include all units you can use as an ork player, when thats otherwise the idea behind the codex. whether they are distributed by FW or GW shouldnt matter in that regard. having two different books just to see rules is just weird.
Well, the ork codex includes everything in the regular model range. All the datasheets you'll ever need to play are in here.*
Forgeworld is a completely separate thing. The models are vastly more expensive, more difficult to build and paint and have more funky rules. It's what you get when you have spare money and want a cool model to add to your army. I'm playing orks for ten years now, have over 10,000 points worth of models and don't own a single FW model. Forgeworld is a premium service that is absolutely optional. Some events even ban FW models.
The only weird thing is that the DoW 1 team picked the Squiggoth when designing the game - as far as I know, all other non-plane units in that game are codex units. DoW 2 and 3 use the battlewagon and the morkanaut respectively, both found in the codex.
*technically, you also need the Vigilus Defiant and Saga of the Beast books, as well as Legends to have all ork rules for "basic" Warhammer40k.
At the time DOW1 came out, the relic units were:
Chaos: Bloodthirster (Citadel)
Space Marines: Land Raider (Citadel)
Orks: Gargantuan Squiggoth ( FW)
Eldar: Avatar of Khaine (using the FW model but rules were in the Codex)
The Expansions:
Winter Assault added the Imperial Guard with the Baneblade ( FW, at the time. They even used the latest model (Lucius pattern))
Dark Crusade added the Tau (Greater Knarloc from FW) and the Necrons (Monolith, Citadel)
Soulstorm added the Adepta Sororitas (Living Saint, Citadel) and the Dark Eldar (Dias of Destruction, Citadel).
So it's really all over the place, with the designers drawing from the full range of GW miniatures, including both Citadel and Forge World.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/04/02 13:21:38
Subject: Question about Forge worlds and Squiggoths
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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I forgot how old DoW was, I was sure plastic stompa and baneblade were already a thing.
As it seems large parts of the ork range didn't exist yet when DoW1 was released. Heck, some models were released AND discontinued in the meantime. Damn, I'm old.
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7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/04/02 13:44:19
Subject: Question about Forge worlds and Squiggoths
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Jidmah wrote:I forgot how old DoW was, I was sure plastic stompa and baneblade were already a thing.
As it seems large parts of the ork range didn't exist yet when DoW1 was released. Heck, some models were released AND discontinued in the meantime. Damn, I'm old.
I know the feeling. I was playing Dawn of War yesterday actually (using the UA mod to add cool stuff). I played the (modded in) Chaos Daemons faction and my wife was like "the gfx for that are worse than the games you usually play" and I was like "Ah, it's from a few years ago".
A few years ago indeed. I looked it up. 2004.
2004. WTF.
Anyways, we digress. The point is that Forge World is awesome but also hugely expensive and the rules can be hit or miss. Similarly, Citadel is awesome but [slightly less] hugely expensive and the rules can be hit or miss. *confetti*
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/04/02 18:42:32
Subject: Question about Forge worlds and Squiggoths
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
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Beardedragon wrote:Hello friends
I have questions. Noob questions
So im new to warhammer tabletop (not warhammer in general just tabletop) and i got to love the 40k part from Dawn of war 1. Before that i had some warhammer fantasy battle figures from chaos but thats beside the point.
I started Collecting Orks 1 week ago and ive glued together and spray painted my first Ork collectors box (nobs, boys, a deff dread and a pain boy). I have yet to actually paint them though as the spray paint is drying.
Question 1:
What exactly is Forge world? and how are they different from games workshop. because Forge world seemingly sells figures that ive seen before in the warhammer universe that i cant find on games workshop own website. like the Squiggoth!
Question 2:
Speaking of Squiggoths! I have the 8th edition ork codex, but when i looked through the codex, i was surprised to see that there werent any Squiggoths? Yet from dawn of war 1, which i understand is from an earlier codex, there were squiggoths. But Squiggoths are still sold on the Forge world webpage.
Does that mean units from Forge world webpage cant be used? can i not use a Squiggoth in a battle? is it from an older Codex thats no longer valid? because the squiggoth stats arent showed in the 8th edition codex. But its a shame if i cant use it, because the Squiggoth is by far the coolest ork unit ever.
appearence wise, no idea gameplay wise. And i understand other units can do what it does better, im not so much interested in whether its efficient, im interested in knowing if im legally allowed to use it in a tournement. and if yes, why the heck does it not show up in the ork Codex? i thought the Codex was a place where all ORK units were meant to be placed so i could see their stats. but i have no idea what the Squiggoth and gargantuan Squiggoth have of stats. nor where to even find them.
thanks for the help.
Forge world is a subsidiary charged with production of "non core" units. For the most part, they realize cool ideas as extra fancy, extra expensive models. Originally, they were responsible for their own rules, but tended to be really hit or miss on balance where some units end up really ahead of the power curve. Most aren't that good, though, and mostly exist because they're cool.
Forge world is tourney legal, as evidenced by the proliferation of relic leviathan dreadnoughts, but it didn't use to be for the longest time.
GW is taking over the rules writing, though this has been uh... interfered with ... by the COVID-19 pandemic, so there will be new rules coming some time "soon" for the squiggoth and other cool things from forgeworld. When that happens, you should be looking for the something titled along the lines of "Imperial Armor Index: Xenos"
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Unit1126PLL wrote: Jidmah wrote:I forgot how old DoW was, I was sure plastic stompa and baneblade were already a thing.
As it seems large parts of the ork range didn't exist yet when DoW1 was released. Heck, some models were released AND discontinued in the meantime. Damn, I'm old.
I know the feeling. I was playing Dawn of War yesterday actually (using the UA mod to add cool stuff). I played the (modded in) Chaos Daemons faction and my wife was like "the gfx for that are worse than the games you usually play" and I was like "Ah, it's from a few years ago".
A few years ago indeed. I looked it up. 2004.
2004. WTF.
Anyways, we digress. The point is that Forge World is awesome but also hugely expensive and the rules can be hit or miss. Similarly, Citadel is awesome but [slightly less] hugely expensive and the rules can be hit or miss. *confetti*
Dawn of War I is pretty great. The voice acting in that game is the best thing about it, and really brings the universe to life.
I played Soulstorm again with some friends recently, good fun. Balance is gak though. [It's realistic, just like the source material!  ]
That said, I don't notice the dated graphics. My computer couldn't handle more advanced ones, and I spend most of my time playing RTS games from the early 2000's anyway.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/02 18:47:02
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! |
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