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So I was viewing the two weapons profiles available to Tyberos and they are as follows

Hunger S:x2 AP:4 Damage:3 Subtract 1 from the hit roll for attacks made with this weapon

Slake S:user AP:3 Damage:2 You can re-roll failed wound rolls for this weapon

His WS is 2+ and he has the Chapter Master Rule to reroll all hits and he has another rule providing a +1 Strength bubble.

Basically my question is:
Is there ever a reason or incentive to use the Slake profile? For the life of me I can't think of any situation where it is preferable.
Against a 3+ save you almost always want Hunger to completely negate save. Against toughness 5 you want Hunger to wound on 2s instead of rerolling 4s. Even against standard primaris Hunger is preferable to negate save completely and in the case of iron hands, make their fnp unlikely to save them due to the 3 damage.

Follow up question would be if you agree with my assessment what would you change to make someone even consider using Slake?

Guardsmen.
Tau infantry.
Cultists.

If your opponent has any additional negatives to hit, you’ll really want slake or else you’re hitting on 4’s. Any form of chaff infantry, slake is better. You’re better off with slake against ork boyz, guants, or Necron Warriors.

 russthebus wrote:
So I was viewing the two weapons profiles available to Tyberos and they are as follows

Hunger S:x2 AP:4 Damage:3 Subtract 1 from the hit roll for attacks made with this weapon

Slake S:user AP:3 Damage:2 You can re-roll failed wound rolls for this weapon

His WS is 2+ and he has the Chapter Master Rule to reroll all hits and he has another rule providing a +1 Strength bubble.

Basically my question is:
Is there ever a reason or incentive to use the Slake profile? For the life of me I can't think of any situation where it is preferable.
Against a 3+ save you almost always want Hunger to completely negate save. Against toughness 5 you want Hunger to wound on 2s instead of rerolling 4s. Even against standard primaris Hunger is preferable to negate save completely and in the case of iron hands, make their fnp unlikely to save them due to the 3 damage.

Follow up question would be if you agree with my assessment what would you change to make someone even consider using Slake?

You cannot re-roll 3s for the Hunger profile since they are not failed hits before modifiers and his re-roll ability affects failed hit rolls before modifiers.

When fighting vehicles and monsters, you'll generally want to attack with Hunger. But against models which are T5 or less, your odds of hitting and wounding are higher with Slake than with Hunger. At that point, it all comes down to saves - if Slake denies their save completely (Guardsmen, Cultists, Ork Boyz) then Slake is vastly superior.

The same is true if you are attacking an opponent with a decent invulnerable save. For instance, Space Marines with Storm Shields, all Daemon infantry,

Keep in mind that Tyberos the Red Wake only allows you to re-roll failed hit rolls. A hit roll of 2 with Hunger is not considered a failed hit roll, and cannot be re-rolled, because hit modifiers take place after re-rolls.

Ah I was unaware of that part of the rules. Is this one of those rules as written, not rules as intended things or has GW covered the issue?

 russthebus wrote:
Ah I was unaware of that part of the rules. Is this one of those rules as written, not rules as intended things or has GW covered the issue?

Basically GW Tyberos has the old CM rule where you only reroll failed hit rolls, where GW has made clear with their FAQ's how modifiers apply only after any rerolls are made, meaning you can't reroll 2's since they technically count as hits before the modifier if you use Hunger. The new CM and most revised SM special characters that are chapter masters are now receiving the new "reroll all to hit rolls" so you can bypass this issue, so until FW releases the new indexes, you're stuck with the inferior version.

How likely is that to happen within the next year?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:

 russthebus wrote:
Ah I was unaware of that part of the rules. Is this one of those rules as written, not rules as intended things or has GW covered the issue?

Basically GW Tyberos has the old CM rule where you only reroll failed hit rolls, where GW has made clear with their FAQ's how modifiers apply only after any rerolls are made, meaning you can't reroll 2's since they technically count as hits before the modifier if you use Hunger. The new CM and most revised SM special characters that are chapter masters are now receiving the new "reroll all to hit rolls" so you can bypass this issue, so until FW releases the new indexes, you're stuck with the inferior version.

How likely is that to happen within the next year?

 JNAProductions wrote:
Guardsmen.
Tau infantry.
Cultists.

I think that's about it. I think even the Chainfist profile is still better against Intercessor and MEQ profiles.

5*3/4/1,2=3,125‬

4*5/6=3,33

The claw is worse against MEQs and Intercessors because of the AP. Against units with 4+ Sv or worse and T4 or lower or just T3 or lower then claw is better.

The rules are almost certain to be updated in the next 12 months, they have already stopped printing the old ones.

 vict0988 wrote:
5*3/4/1,2=3,125‬

4*5/6=3,33

The claw is worse against MEQs and Intercessors because of the AP. Against units with 4+ Sv or worse and T4 or lower or just T3 or lower then claw is better.

The rules are almost certain to be updated in the next 12 months, they have already stopped printing the old ones.

Think that's the math I got. Assuming a sudden super strength bonus though it does go to the Claws though, but there isn't a lot of that.