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Cheeky Zoggers: GRETCHIN models only. Models in a unit with this Subkultur gain a 6+ invulnerable save. When resolving an attack by a VEHICLE model in a unit with this Subkultur, re-roll a hit roll.

Warning: I don't have the physical book yet so this quote came off Battlescribe and may be wrong.

In the second part of this rule, it says "When resolving an attack by a VEHICLE". Does this mean a close combat attack or can it also apply to shooting?

thanks
-Matt

BRB, Page 179 (Shooting Phase) wrote:Number of Attacks
Each time a model shoots a ranged weapon, it will make a number of attacks. You roll one dice for each attack being made.

It means any attack, shooting or close combat.

Thank you!

Between "Cheeky Zoggers" and "Sparkly Bitz" they have given Killa Kans a massive boost in performance! Hitting on 3+ in the Shooting Phase, a 6+ invulnerable save, and each model getting to reroll a miss is going to make a group of Kans with the Rokkit Launcha pretty devastating.

-Matt

Matt85 wrote:
Thank you!

Between "Cheeky Zoggers" and "Sparkly Bitz" they have given Killa Kans a massive boost in performance! Hitting on 3+ in the Shooting Phase, a 6+ invulnerable save, and each model getting to reroll a miss is going to make a group of Kans with the Rokkit Launcha pretty devastating.

-Matt

I was under the impression it was RR1s, not reroll one hit.

Might want to check your book, when you get it.

Unless GW messed up the preview, it is re-roll 1s (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/20/waaagh-grotsgw-homepage-post-2/)

Matt85 wrote:
Thank you!

Between "Cheeky Zoggers" and "Sparkly Bitz" they have given Killa Kans a massive boost in performance! Hitting on 3+ in the Shooting Phase, a 6+ invulnerable save, and each model getting to reroll a miss is going to make a group of Kans with the Rokkit Launcha pretty devastating.

-Matt

You're not wrong. A maxed-out kan mob has several ways to be super obnoxious right now, Sparkly Bits isn't the only one. There's also a kustom job that gives the whole mob -1 to hit... -1 to hit, T5 4+ 6++ on the cheap is maybe the single most obnoxious defensive profile I can come up with.

JNAProductions wrote:I was under the impression it was RR1s, not reroll one hit.

Might want to check your book, when you get it.

My source was wrong, you are correct. Not quite as good but still a massive boost to Kans.

the_scotsman wrote:

You're not wrong. A maxed-out kan mob has several ways to be super obnoxious right now, Sparkly Bits isn't the only one. There's also a kustom job that gives the whole mob -1 to hit... -1 to hit, T5 4+ 6++ on the cheap is maybe the single most obnoxious defensive profile I can come up with.

Agreed, except Kans have a 3+ save not a 4+.

So you would have a T5 model with 5 wounds that has -1 to be hit, 3+, and 6++. Add the "new" Big Mek with KFF with the Warlord trait "breaking Heads" and your 6++ turns to 5++ with the warlord trait greatly reducing morale problems.

-matt

also don't forget mek guns are 'vehicles'

not sure smasha guns needed to be made better... but hey ho

 Latro_ wrote:
also don't forget mek guns are 'vehicles'

not sure smasha guns needed to be made better... but hey ho

Sure they do, then GW can sell more $50 boxes of them (GW price) for a low point cost model.

 doctortom wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
also don't forget mek guns are 'vehicles'

not sure smasha guns needed to be made better... but hey ho

Sure they do, then GW can sell more $50 boxes of them (GW price) for a low point cost model.

bit of converting:
https://www.manticgames.com/games/warpath/forge-fathers-warpath/forge-fathers-weapons-platform-formation/

perfect

Cheeky Zoggers: GRETCHIN models only. Models in a unit with this Subkultur gain a 6+ invulnerable save. When resolving an attack by a VEHICLE model in a unit with this Subkultur, re-roll a hit roll.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

BRB, Page 179 (Shooting Phase) wrote:Number of Attacks
Each time a model shoots a ranged weapon, it will make a number of attacks. You roll one dice for each attack being made.

Ok, by my way of reading this (if, indeed, this is the exact wording) then:

each time you shoot a ranged weapon you make a number of attacks, and each time you make an attack you can reroll one hit roll.

Meaning that if I shoot, say, a big shoota, I make 3 attacks (as per BRB) and in each of these attacks, I may reroll one dice (as per Cheeky Zoggers).

Would I be correct that, RAW, this allows me to reroll all of my attacks?

I don't think that's the exact wording.

 JNAProductions wrote:
I don't think that's the exact wording.

Yeah, that Cheeky Zoggers quote is truncated. It's supposed to say "re-roll a hit roll of 1" It's not just re-roll a hit roll.

Yeah the rule on battlescribe is incorrect. It's almost like you shouldn't rely on it for rules.

My Saga of the Beast book was supposed to arrive today... USPS tracking number now says packaged is delayed.

here is a better quote of the Grot Mob rule:

Grot Mobs – Cheeky Zoggerz

Life in Orkish culture is harsh, the strong dominating the weak at every turn. For Gretchin this is experienced more than most, and the embittered greenskins love nothing more than to gang up on others to take out their frustrations.

GRETCHIN models only. Models in a unit with this Subkultur gain a 6+ invulnerable save. When resolving an attack by a VEHICLE model in a unit with this Subkultur, re-roll a hit roll of 1.

-matt

Matt85 wrote:
My Saga of the Beast book was supposed to arrive today... USPS tracking number now says packaged is delayed.

here is a better quote of the Grot Mob rule:

Grot Mobs – Cheeky Zoggerz

Life in Orkish culture is harsh, the strong dominating the weak at every turn. For Gretchin this is experienced more than most, and the embittered greenskins love nothing more than to gang up on others to take out their frustrations.

GRETCHIN models only. Models in a unit with this Subkultur gain a 6+ invulnerable save. When resolving an attack by a VEHICLE model in a unit with this Subkultur, re-roll a hit roll of 1.

-matt

Okay, but this still works with my reading of the rules - assuming BCB's quote was word for word:

BRB, Page 179 (Shooting Phase) wrote:
Number of Attacks
Each time a model shoots a ranged weapon, it will make a number of attacks. You roll one dice for each attack being made.

then each time a model shoots with a weapon, it "makes a number of attacks". For example, a big shoota makes 3 attacks.

Then, cheeky zoggers states:

When resolving an attack by a VEHICLE model in a unit with this Subkultur, re-roll a hit roll of 1.

so we resolve 3 attacks, and each time we do so, the vehicle gretchin unit re-rolls a hit roll of a 1. As each attack is only a single dice, then the rules indicate that I can re-roll every single dice (if it's a 1), as each of them is resolved individually.


Just to clarify - this isn't how I'd play it, I'm just picking the holes in the writing of the rules themselves!

This was already FAQed for Space Marines, because GW in a poor attempt to write rules "correctly", just botched it even more.

WARHAMMER 40,000 CODEX: SPACE MARINES Official Update Version 1.2 wrote:Q. A lot of rules apply an effect when resolving an attack, rather than attacks. Does this mean the ability only applies for one single attack? For example, the Masterful Marksmanship Stratagem states ‘Until the end of the phase, when resolving an attack made with a special issue boltgun by a model in that unit, add 1 to the wound roll.’
A: The attack sequence in the core rules is based on attacks being made one at a time. Therefore the wording of these abilities matches how attacks are resolved in the core rules. The ability would still apply to other attacks made by that unit, so long as it satisfied the requirements laid out in the rule. In the above example, the ability would apply for each attack you make with a special issue boltgun by a model in that unit until the end of the phase.

And before the usual suspects jump down my throat, I am not using this as "precedent" because it's how the rule functions regardless of FAQ. The FAQ is simply clarifying it for people who get confused by GWs poor writing.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
This was already FAQed for Space Marines, because GW in a poor attempt to write rules "correctly", just botched it even more.

WARHAMMER 40,000 CODEX: SPACE MARINES Official Update Version 1.2 wrote:Q. A lot of rules apply an effect when resolving an attack, rather than attacks. Does this mean the ability only applies for one single attack? For example, the Masterful Marksmanship Stratagem states ‘Until the end of the phase, when resolving an attack made with a special issue boltgun by a model in that unit, add 1 to the wound roll.’
A: The attack sequence in the core rules is based on attacks being made one at a time. Therefore the wording of these abilities matches how attacks are resolved in the core rules. The ability would still apply to other attacks made by that unit, so long as it satisfied the requirements laid out in the rule. In the above example, the ability would apply for each attack you make with a special issue boltgun by a model in that unit until the end of the phase.

And before the usual suspects jump down my throat, I am not using this as "precedent" because it's how the rule functions regardless of FAQ. The FAQ is simply clarifying it for people who get confused by GWs poor writing.

...so are you agreeing that the re-roll seems to apply for each attack, or that it's a single roll?

I think RAI that it should be one dice, not all of them, but RAW and with that FAQ, it seems like it applies to each attack, which would be one die at a time.

shoddy writing, whichever way you slice it.

It's each attack.

So we are saying "Cheeky Zoggerz" works the same way as "Armed to da Teef" (Bad Moons) except with "Cheeky Zoggerz" it's only for vehicles?

Example: The Mek Gun Kustom Mega Kannon gets three 1s on hit rolls, you would be able to reroll all of them.

I'm not sure I'm reading it that way... "When resolving an attack by a VEHICLE model in a unit with this Subkultur, re-roll a hit roll of 1" sounds a lot more like you get to reroll a single die.

Example: The Mek Gun Kustom Mega Kannon gets three 1s on hit rolls, you would be able to reroll one of them and would still take a mortal wound for the other failed rolls.

-matt

Matt85 wrote:
So we are saying "Cheeky Zoggerz" works the same way as "Armed to da Teef" (Bad Moons) except with "Cheeky Zoggerz" it's only for vehicles?

Example: The Mek Gun Kustom Mega Kannon gets three 1s on hit rolls, you would be able to reroll all of them.

I'm not sure I'm reading it that way... "When resolving an attack by a VEHICLE model in a unit with this Subkultur, re-roll a hit roll of 1" sounds a lot more like you get to reroll a single die.

Example: The Mek Gun Kustom Mega Kannon gets three 1s on hit rolls, you would be able to reroll one of them and would still take a mortal wound for the other failed rolls.

-matt

Because GW changed the way they do rules wording with the SM codex and in typical GW fashion, botched it.

I already gave you the FAQ that contradicts your "reading".

 BaconCatBug wrote:
This was already FAQed for Space Marines, because GW in a poor attempt to write rules "correctly", just botched it even more.

WARHAMMER 40,000 CODEX: SPACE MARINES Official Update Version 1.2 wrote:Q. A lot of rules apply an effect when resolving an attack, rather than attacks. Does this mean the ability only applies for one single attack? For example, the Masterful Marksmanship Stratagem states ‘Until the end of the phase, when resolving an attack made with a special issue boltgun by a model in that unit, add 1 to the wound roll.’
A: The attack sequence in the core rules is based on attacks being made one at a time. Therefore the wording of these abilities matches how attacks are resolved in the core rules. The ability would still apply to other attacks made by that unit, so long as it satisfied the requirements laid out in the rule. In the above example, the ability would apply for each attack you make with a special issue boltgun by a model in that unit until the end of the phase.

And before the usual suspects jump down my throat, I am not using this as "precedent" because it's how the rule functions regardless of FAQ. The FAQ is simply clarifying it for people who get confused by GWs poor writing.

Each hit roll is always treated individually, even if you have multiple shots (unless a special rule says otherwise). When you fast roll, and you roll three 1s with your KMK, you can reroll all of them.

 some bloke wrote:
...so are you agreeing that the re-roll seems to apply for each attack, or that it's a single roll?

I think RAI that it should be one dice, not all of them, but RAW and with that FAQ, it seems like it applies to each attack, which would be one die at a time.

shoddy writing, whichever way you slice it.

I agree with BCB here, it's just how the rules work and there is no reason to believe that its intention was otherwise. Rules which re-roll only a single dice are worded in a completely different way by providing re-rolls each time something shoots or per phase.

 p5freak wrote:
Each hit roll is always treated individually, even if you have multiple shots (unless a special rule says otherwise). When you fast roll, and you roll three 1s with your KMK, you can reroll all of them.

This is my understanding as well. Essentially all grot mob vehicles get to reroll 1s to hit.