Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am brand new. Prior to the lock-down I bought the Tactical Squad Space Marine box from a local game store. Owner said it was an easy place to begin. Options self-explanatory on builds, etc. I also have the basic rule book. Here is what I need before I go any further, as I have all the pieces sorted by model (pre-sub assembly) and about to wash/rinse to do some gluing and prime.

I understand concept of WYSISYG

I did teach myself to use magnets. My leader and special weapon guys are both completed. Easier than expected

Not a fan of the grenade pieces and how they fit/look on model

There are enough grenades for each model and only a single pistol holster

On page 121 of the rule book it is stated specific to each tactical squad that "Every model is equipped with bolt pistol, boltgun, frag grenades, krak grenades"

So ... is it assumed each Marine has both grenades AND the pistol despite not being visible, as there are not enough parts? Or, if I fail to put the grenades on EVERY model, then the model is WYSIWYG and deemed minus grenades?

Like, this is Week 3 for me. Seems basic yet I need any help before I take the next step to wash and do some gluing to start painting. Any help from a long-time player really appreciated.

First, welcome to Dakka, the hobby, and Space Marines.

There theoretically might be a WYSWYG purist who insists on absolutely everything be modeled. In practice, nobody is that extreme. And even if you did find such a person, you probably don’t want to play him anyway.

Mostly people care about the options. We know everyone has the grenades and pistols. But what special/heavy is in the squad, and what’s the sarge packing? Those are the real options that should be modeled. The rest is mostly for flavor.

Technically, WYSWYG is an unofficial gentleman’s agreement, and not codified in the rules these days.

Awesome and thank you, thank you, thank you. This makes perfect sense and I was 90% certain this was the case. Just needed validation.

Taking all of those off the sprue; removing molds lines ... SO many mold lines ... dry fitting and, then, putting in those TINY magnets too so much longer than I thought. I would imagine you get better in time. I was very deliberate ... slow ... and just finished today. With this confirmed I can now wash; prime and get going.

Thank you

Cleaning mold lines never gets fun, but needs to be done. It does go faster with practice.

Rule #1 of modeling, does it look cool to you?

if yes rock on.
if not rock on.

Thank you. I regret not taking progress picks. Since this was confirmed I guess I “kit bashed” and made one model look like a demolitions expert; a medic and decked out the special weapons guy. The local store had a “bits bin” and I grabbed a handful pre-lock down. First use of gap filler and the A/B or Green Stuff.

Made my own basing materials too. Small container of sand and rocks. Used 3 diff strainers. Rinsed. Baked. Strained 3 more times. Now, I have all sorts of grit to pebbles to penny sized rocks.

HUGE fail fast guy. Timely? Yes. Easier than I thought? Yes. Now, onto painting.

hi Spoons71. Welcome to the hobby
painting takes time & practice & patience to get to a point where you're happy with the results so don't beat yourself up over your 1st attempts.
Remember to prime your models with an acrylic-based primer. These days they come in all different colours but are most common in white, grey & black.
If you're going to use Games Workshop Contrast paint system, you'll find that the results on Space Marines & vehicles can give very patchy results. this is due to the large areas with little or no detailing.
Also remember, if these will be mostly gaming pieces rather then display pieces, you'll never really see the eyes. Just use a dark brown wash. From 2 feet away, no one will notice & it will save you a lot of time & effort!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, feel free to ask any questions, either directly here or you can pm me.

Boom! Thank you. I bought some paints including a few contrast options. Also, some plastic army men. My “test” models. Washes stain and you can get some cool effects with the contrast paints. I just don’t like the “look” of the contrast paint as an entire layer/step.

I am realizing more deliberate paint planning and a wash or contrast paint, as a specific tool to gain a specific effect, seems to be way to go. That “dunk” or “dip” the model in an all over wash is grimy and creates a lot of extra work for someone at my level.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok ... basing question. Glue right to base; “pin” and glue right to base or apply some A/B or Greenstuff to base and pin?

Glue right to base easiest. Seems like it would not take much to knock
model off base. Zero dimension to base. Flat.

Pin seems more secure. Zero dimension.

Last option adds dimension.

I know there isn’t a right answer. Just curious.

What sort of baseing effect do you want? How much effort you want to put into it? There are a TON of options out there. Personally, I go with deep snow bases with a few rocks and tufts, but that fits my army, both thematically and aesthetically. You want a rubble base? runis? mud? grass?

One advantage of how I base is that it can be done after the minis are finished. This was needed, as I was going back and doing a couple decades of finished models all at once. For some rubble/rock styles, you want to do them when you build the mini.

At one point I slathered black wash over everything. It fits a grimy, dirty look (OK, for my undead/chaos forces, I regret that phase for my Eldar). These days I do more targeted washes. They are a great way of easily adding depth and detail. Some things, like golds, really pop nicely with a brown wash. Metallics in general get a lot of milage from them.

Thank you. Most likely rubble/worn down area. I am taking a larger plastic lid. Gluing some grit onto it. Priming and, then, testing diff combos of colors.

For me, as a new painter, it would seem easier to not have the base in way, while painting. I have noticed the pin/cork method. Some pre-work but think it could make painting and basing easier.

I appreciate all help

Examples of bases for you. Please note, I am no where near the level of other people on this forum. Look through galleries and you will see ideas. It's up to you to paint off the base or not. Plastic glue will bond them to the base and models falling off is a very rare thing. If you paint separate and base separate, remember to leave a spot for the feet. When using sand/pebbles, I paint the mini on the base, then PVA around the feet to stick my pebbles on. Remember, once the PVA has dried, a wash of 50/50 water PVA over the pebbles helps them adhere much better and protects them. Then paint a base color, and drybrush over if you wish.

All of these are very simple to do. Really just glue, material, and paint if needed.

Anyway, first a straight flock and static grass to represent the plains of this regiments homeworld: Some are my own sculpts and so have a different base I flocked the edges of. Most people leave minis with a solid ring around as the ones with the black show.


Next the rocky desert for tyranids. This is made using sand pebbles and plastic plants torn down from hobby lobby or michaels. Note some people HATE using the pre-made plant stuff. This is sand glued down, painted a darker brown, then drybrushed through several colors up to yellow.


A generic snow style base using snow flock. I did this a long time ago, and they do better with mixtures of snow and non snow.


And bases made from modeling clay on washers (for the weight, these fall over) painted as half rock-half grass with flowers.


Edited: forgot pics.

Awesome and thank you very much. I am still practicing before going forward.

This is small rocks from Woodland Scenics. Put a layer of glue one the base of a painted model, cover with rocks. Once that is dry (important, or you will knock them off) go over it with a 50/50 mix of water/glue. The glue here is your basic white elmers/PVA glue. This help seal things down, but makes things a little glossy. Nulan Oil to shade and tone it down. Done.

Thanks Nevelon, much better set of pics to show it. You do a LOT of really nice work.
@Spoons71: Hope you'll share what you end up with. We all start somewhere and most of the people here give encouragement and great advice. And no matter how long I've been hobbying, I constantly find new advice, ideas, or just inspiration from everyone who posts.

This blog post shows how I do my rather simple bases; wood glue (Max), two or three sizes of ballast from Woodland Scenics. Primed/painted and finished with a grass tuft from Army Painter. Super simple.

http://myminiaturemischief.blogspot.com/2016/06/step-by-step-spiders.html

OK ... I am not tech savvy despite 25 years in technical/IT sales. Oh, the irony ... anyway, I think I got this to work and post. This is my first every mini. Few things ...

State of State
My family lineage is Dutch. I grew up overseas. I made an attempt at playing pro soccer YEARS ago. And I LOVE the Dutch National Team.
This model, as you say, blocked. At least the orange or "oranje"
Yeah, slight smear on the face mask.
Orange takes SO SO SO many coats. SO many coats.
I did 9 test combos of primer combos with contrast paints or paints to get an under shade to start with. Used many plastic army men
So many coats
So many coats
No highlights on this at all
The grey areas are intended to be a very non-aggressive hue of purple
Eyes most likely blue
Base colors of purple to blue to green

What I Learned
Like I said ... many coats to get a clean orange
This whole super thin paints and many coats ... yep
Sounds counter intuitive but a larger brush with a fine tip does better than a TINY brush. I guess a Size 2 or 1 compared to a 0 or 00 for larger spaces
This color theory business especially for orange .... yeah, worth research. Orange gets REALLY funky in a hurry on tiny little dudes
Oh, I really screwed up his backpack taking it off sprue. Like, BAD. I tried my hand at a quick "kit bash" and added something that looked natural.

Any feedback or thoughts appreciated



Automatically Appended Next Post:


https://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2020/4/20/1056212_mb-Test%20-%20SoM2.jpg" border="0" />



Test Model 2

The love or hate colors of the Sons of Medusa. Dig the colors. Dig the whole back-story thing. The lore stuff not really something I am or would get deep into. Little bit I know the Iron Hands and White Scars have highest "cool" factor.

What I Learned
Tamiya makes an aerosol / spray that is metallic and essentially does 90% of the work including highlights
That color is only available in a spray can
Completing an army would be easy and EXPENSIVE
And, oh, obtaining Tamiya cans right now? Extremely difficult
The light grey areas are not done
I went ahead and tried to highlight the green. Just to see how I could do and practice
I did solid job with eyes. First time out
Sort of like the base. Accidentally hit the base with some BRIGHT green/yellow
The look is polarizing. You either really dig it or you do not




Automatically Appended Next Post:




https://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2020/4/20/1056208_mb-Test%20-%20First%20Ever%20Face.jpg

My 3rd test model. The colors are SUPER basic. Black. Deep pink with metallic undertone. Gunmetal blue. Both the pink and blue backed with non-metallic versions.

What I Learned
This model is 10% done
First ever very TINY face. Hard to get a good photo. I watched Darren Lantham's video ... well, all of them ... especially his face tutorials. This came out much better than I figured
For whatever reason the simple nature of this one just "works"
I love the concept of my orange army. It was my plan all along.
Then, I decided to test 2 other schemes. The clean/crisp look of the black/pink came out far better than I had imagined
I would image highlighting the black is as much work as layering orange

What color are you priming that orange with? While it’s a color that takes a few layers, It seems you are doing more than normal.

Something that helps for “thin” colors like orange and yellow is to base them on a pale grey, or another color that you can get a smooth even coat with easily.

I paint a lot of wires and tubes yellow/orange. As they get done in the detail pass, there is normally a bit of slop from the basecoats around. If I just went stright in with the orange, I would NEVER get a clean coat. So I go over the spots I need with an off white. This hides the slop. Then it only takes one or two passes with the orange to get the brightness I want.

@nevelon ... as always, appreciate the dialogue and help.

First, I am going to stop at some point and take better photos. I really hope some of you have a less hectic schedule than I do at this time. I am all about feedback and some of you all do some incredible work. My appreciate level was high. Now? Off charts.

I settled on Clorax White with a LIGHT dust from below with a blue. I do not have an airbrush. This was done via rattle cans. The orange is Jokaero from GW. I feel I got a very crisp hue between 3-4 layers. To take it from that color all the way to a hue of Troll Slayer, as the color and not a highlight, takes another 2-3. I am experimenting. And ...

Dealing with my OCD/perfectionism. I am learning what "good enough" is, while balancing teaching myself something new. The point of diminishing returns ...

Also, I am blocking out parts of the models with a neutral grey taken to light gray or a metallic. I have figured out how to get something back to a darker version of the natural state. In one of the 1001 youtube vids I watched on painting minis ... someone mentioned this.

Appreciate the tip on the basing. I have some test bases. My initial thought, if I adopt the orange theme, is blue/green grit with larger rocks in a grey and, then, foliage that is yellow or grey. I have a test base that is purple/grey/blue. More futuristic than what I have seen in WH40K basing. It works, if I place the orange test model on it. Just 50/50 on it right now.

After several test bases I finally arrived at one I like and that fits into colors to mute my orange space marines. The happy accident was noticing the one turf actually has a blue tint to it. So the base ends up with muted blue, green and yellow. In theory I think that should cool down the orange.

I am hoping to have my first every completed model done in the next day or so.

What makes this a little easier is that I live in a mostly rocky area. LOTS of grit and gravel and rocks ... like, endless supply. I made my own and have containers of different sizes.

Any and all feedback welcomed

That is an excellent base. I live next to the high desert in Cali, and it looks straight out of it. Keep up the good work.

@edwardmyst ... thank you. Little steps forward and appreciate feedback.

[list]


Ok ... My first 5 helmets are done. The rest of the minis are primed and ready to go. Some notes ...

I work really slowly. Trying to learn and, then, from time to time limited use (full use) of my hands.
I ended up opting for the Pink/Blue/Black color scheme. Normally, I travel 80% of the time and an army of orange would take a LONG, LONG time for me to get done.
I practiced on a whole bunch of random plastic and army men.
Taking quality pics of these may be as hard as painting them.
My respect level for people who paints these, while filming and talking and teaching, is immense.

Help Needed ...

I think I got a little more aggressive with highlights than most on a space marine. I made an attempt to try the 2 brush wet blend and did more highlight layers than fewer. At this point I have applied Nulin Oil to the silver. That is it. Nothing else has been hit with any sort of wash, etc. With that ...

I have Volupus Pink Contrast Paint. Through my attempting to highlight, etc I lost some of the super intense tone of the Screamer Pink. I have tested the V Pink over Screamer Pink. It will make it rich in hue. What did I fail to do? Test it on something I made an effort to highlight.

If I were to hit this with the contrast paint, then what level of loss on the highlights? Would it actually cool everything down and make it more natural? I understand the V Pink will find recesses. I also confirmed it will tint the entire surface. What if I used a blue contrast paint?

I do not like the whole wash the model method. At all. I tinkered with enamels/oil and that for me is easier. It would save me time. I need experienced painters to weigh-in, as I really do not want to have to redo any work.

Also, any feedback is welcomed. Again, it is intensely sunny where I live and I think my window to take photos is about an hour in the AM. Totally missed that today.

Lastly, the arm's length philosophy finally makes sense. I take a pic and I can zoom in and see all sorts of imperfections. At 3 feet I can see the highlights, which is why I did more intense v less.

Thanks for any help.

Hey man, good job but I think that V.Pink contrast is the same as screamer pink as a paint,

Do you have the citadel paint app?

It will show you the colour combinations you want with each individual layer with examples too

@Rybrook .... thank you for the positive feedback. I appreciate it.

When I get a free minute, I am going to prime and just quickly highlight some plastic. Get an idea of what the contrast pink and blue will do. Additionally, I am going to head to my local game store, which just opened up yesterday. Right by my office. Luckily, I live in a city that has started to remove some restrictions. They have several people who paint and going to ask them.

For it being my first time ... I was excited for what I got accomplished. I even noticed efficiencies and slight improvement in results from helmet 1 to helmet 5. Baby steps

Any other feedback would be appreciated

Not bad for a beginner. You can learn so much from watching tutorials from Darren Latham (one of the guys that painted for the box art) that's what I did and I managed to get to a good painting level in matter of weeks.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSz0WzAuhwjezFyEIv3Xksg

Also in regards to mould lines you don't need anything fancy you can literally use the blade from a blunt pair of scissors and it works fine.

enamels and oils are useful tools, but I would suggest learning to use acryllic inks/washes first. you dont need to douse the whole model. use selective washes in areas required. this is good for learning control and just adds to the ability to focus on picking out details in specific areas.

@Axel Dale ... thank you and he has sort of been my "go to" on tutorials. I have even taken notes, as I saw he was pulling them soon. I noticed how focused he is on using the very tip of the brush. There's something about a larger brush with control that has made it easier/look nicer than a TINY brush. I have been forcing myself to learn on a #1. #2 is just too large for me. Figure it is all muscle memory and repetition. Also, thanks for positive feedback.

@Queen_A_R ... thank you and noted. I have tinkered with washes; contrasts and, then, a few enamels. Again, I have 8 weeks of total experience and trust what you are saying. Yes, oil does a job and not easy to work with at all. I have learned from a tube ... best to leave sit for hours or overnight. Still, MESSY. Then, I learned for "lining" purposes a gloss enamel would be preferred vs a matte. Something scientific around how the paints are made / beyond my pay grade.

I enjoy the learning aspect and appreciate all the direction. Willing to try anything.

Oh yeah oils have to be left for a while. I find my w&n oils are workable over after about 24 hours, as in they're OK to go over with acryllics if you need, but you will need a slightly thicker layer for adhesion. Thin glaze like layers will roll off the surface. It's a good idea to varnish between different medium layers, as in applying an acryllic varnish over acryllic layers before applying oils or enamel, but I never do this, mainly out of laziness.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Oh yeah oils have to be left for a while. I find my w&n oils are workable over after about 24 hours, as in they're OK to go over with acryllics if you need, but you will need a slightly thicker layer for adhesion. Thin glaze like layers will roll off the surface. It's a good idea to varnish between different medium layers, as in applying an acryllic varnish over acryllic layers before applying oils or enamel, but I never do this, mainly out of laziness.

Question on this ...

Many say base and, then, use a gloss coat. Dry for 24 hours and, then, panel line or work with an enamel. I have now had several life-long modelers tell me to use a semi-gloss / satin vs a gloss. They said it is easier to work upon/with ...

Is there truth to that or does it matter or preference?

I just know oils smell and are extremely messy. Like, ALL over in a hurry.

Spoons71 wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Oh yeah oils have to be left for a while. I find my w&n oils are workable over after about 24 hours, as in they're OK to go over with acryllics if you need, but you will need a slightly thicker layer for adhesion. Thin glaze like layers will roll off the surface. It's a good idea to varnish between different medium layers, as in applying an acryllic varnish over acryllic layers before applying oils or enamel, but I never do this, mainly out of laziness.

Question on this ...

Many say base and, then, use a gloss coat. Dry for 24 hours and, then, panel line or work with an enamel. I have now had several life-long modelers tell me to use a semi-gloss / satin vs a gloss. They said it is easier to work upon/with ...

Is there truth to that or does it matter or preference?

I just know oils smell and are extremely messy. Like, ALL over in a hurry.

I agree, satin is generally the most workable surface for oils in my opinion, that is if you want to use them as filters or oil washes. However, you can use matte, more of the oil colour will be held on the surface, which can sometimes be beneficial, for example if you want a more weathered surface. And I personally think matte is fine if you want to actually use the oils for blending to get your highlights, as the oil layer will be held in place, and allow you to blend over the top.

I stay away from gloss. I find the surface tension is too high and the oils tend to roll off or bead. Some people say different, so your experience may differ.