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To avoid starting a new off-topic tangent in the Psychic Awakening thread for Pariah, Deathwatch, and the Harlequins I thought I would pull a quote out that I found interesting:

ERJAK wrote:

If we're eliminating bloat it starts and ends with marines. There's half a dozen totally unnecessary codexes with another half dozen completely superfluous supplements in kicking around now.

You could get rid of half of all the books in the game by just bringing marines down to something reasonable.

For a long time, there were complaints about the size of the Marine book. Even before the Primaris were around, Codex: Space Marines was one of the heftier books. Cut to supplements expanding the Codex Chapters(and Black Templars, I guess? ) which contain:
-Characters for that faction
-Stratagems
-Relics
-Special Rules for a pure faction army.

And all of a sudden each book is being treated as "necessary"? Why do I need Iron Hands if I play Salamanders? Why would I need Ultramarines if I play Imperial Fists?

Yeah, I get it that people still have bees in their bonnets about the existence of Space Wolves, Dark Angels, and Blood Angels as separate books. Would DA, BA, and SW players bat an eye if their codices were instead set up as Supplement Books like Raven Guard, Iron Hands, and the other Codex Chapters?

If you got:
-Characters+special units/errata to grant keywords(ie: Intercessors or Tactical Squads could be given the 'Grey Hunters' keywords for SW for a pointed upgrade)
-Stratagems
-Relics
-Special Rules for a pure faction army.
Would you consider it a fair trade for being updated whenever the generic Marine book got updated?

Would other factions be interested in a similar treatment, if it's possible(the ones that immediately spring to mind are Aeldari, Drukhari, Chaos Marines[vanilla] and some of the Guard subfactions)?

I've added a poll to the top that will run for 5 days. Feel free to explain your vote choice.

If I had my way, it would be split into two books.

Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes: Codex Compliant
Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes: Codex Non-Compliant

The first is essentially the current Space Marine codex.
The second one is tossing DA, BA, SW, (maybe BT), together into a codex, with rules for making codex non-compliant chapters.

Grey Knights and Deathwatch either get put into Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes: Specialists, or they are put into an Imprial Agents book.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Would DA, BA, and SW players bat an eye if their codices were instead set up as Supplement Books like Raven Guard, Iron Hands, and the other Codex Chapters?

If you got:
-Characters+special units/errata to grant keywords(ie: Intercessors or Tactical Squads could be given the 'Grey Hunters' keywords for SW for a pointed upgrade)
-Stratagems
-Relics
-Special Rules for a pure faction army.
Would you consider it a fair trade for being updated whenever the generic Marine book got updated?

I've suggested this approach countless times before. It's always been met with "but DA/BA/SW have too many unique units, you'd never fit them all in!" (which is untrue, would easily be possible to get them in - the Ultramarines, with their slew of unique units and characters manage just fine), or something like "it's just confusing for people who want to play DA/BA/SW!" (but apparently everyone else is fine?), or "that means I need to buy more books!" (again, what about the other Chapters who don't get their own shiny personalised Codex?)

Basically, even if the books functioned identically and nothing was lost, essentially being a Codex in all but name, certain people would still complain they didn't get it a "proper Codex".

The guard factions are all one codex aren't they?

Not sure you could do the same with the eldar. There isn't a single common unit between any of the 3 eldar factions. It's not like the space marine factions where lots of the vehicles and units are the same...

I've got no problem with more rules/options.
I think that the real problem with the supplements is the content vs price.
For $30-$40 out of about 64 pages, you only get around 8 functional ones. All the rest is wasted on pictures & story that at best you read once, maybe twice, - even if you truly are a fan of ______.
You could take all the supplements, keep a bit of each ones pics/lore, & combine them into one volume, still come in under the page count of Codex: Space Marine, only be charged about $40 & have everything at hand.
Or each of the supplements could simply reprint everything from Codex: space Marine they'd need to be a stand alone codex ala the SW, DA, BA & cost you about $40.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I've suggested this approach countless times before. It's always been met with "but DA/BA/SW have too many unique units, you'd never fit them all in!" (which is untrue, would easily be possible to get them in - the Ultramarines, with their slew of unique units and characters manage just fine), or something like "it's just confusing for people who want to play DA/BA/SW!" (but apparently everyone else is fine?), or "that means I need to buy more books!" (again, what about the other Chapters who don't get their own shiny personalised Codex?)

To be fair, in the past we didn't have a simple way of adding something like keywords to the existing units--and in many instances the people(not necessarily you) who initially broach the topic insisted on doing something like what Apple_Peel has done--they suggest just jamming things together into "<insert number here> of books". There's usually no attempt to actually understand what made those Chapters and their items unique nor was there really attempts to separate out some of the units to retain them as 'hallmarks' for their Chapters. It was always just "We need less books but things still need to go together because reasons!", meaning nonsense would occur like Baal Predators or the huge swathes of characters get added to the book doing nothing more than making large books even larger.

We don't need a book for "Non-Compliant Chapters". The parts about them that make the Chapters "Non-Compliant" can be in a Chapter supplement book alongside of characters, relics, and stratagems.

Basically, even if the books functioned identically and nothing was lost, essentially being a Codex in all but name, certain people would still complain they didn't get it a "proper Codex".

Yeah, and those same people will complain that they don't get updated or they don't get X item that the Codex does. Those individuals tend to be contrarians for the sake of being contrarian.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crispy78 wrote:
The guard factions are all one codex aren't they?

By "Guard", I'm referring to potentially offering up something like a Cadian supplement that has Creed, Kell, and Pask in them alongside of rules for Cadian Detachments and unique units.
I'd take it a step further, personally, and remove their access to certain things in exchange for those unique units.
Same goes for the Catachans.

Not sure you could do the same with the eldar. There isn't a single common unit between any of the 3 eldar factions. It's not like the space marine factions where lots of the vehicles and units are the same...

I think you've misunderstood the reference to the Aeldari and Drukhari. It wasn't saying that you could turn Drukhari into a supplement book for them or the like--it was opening up space for stuff like a Wych Cult book with expanded rules for Wych Cults, a Kabalite book, and a Coven book.

With Aeldari, some of the factions have as many unique units and characters(which is to say "they have a single one" ) as a good chunk of the Codex Chapters that got supplements did for Marines.

Its massive bloat - but then eveything to do with Marines screams bloat

But other armies have stupidly seperated datasheets that should be one.

Yeah, I get it that people still have bees in their bonnets about the existence of Space Wolves, Dark Angels, and Blood Angels as separate books. Would DA, BA, and SW players bat an eye if their codices were instead set up as Supplement Books like Raven Guard, Iron Hands, and the other Codex Chapters?

Waits for the screaming from pure Wolves and Angels players that having their own codex is a sacred god given gift and NO_ONE can take it away from them -but they want all the other stuff to

The Angels aren't unique enough to warrant a separate codex. Consolidate them into the Vanilla codex and consolidate unit entries and wargear choices. No, there shouldn't be four frickin Terminator entries. Yes, Blood Angels aren't the only Chapter to have tried Librarians in a Dread. Then just leave it as each Chapter getting 4 unique units. Lastly, with those 8 founding Chapters properly in one codex where they should be, leave some pages dedicated Renegades and how to switch Keywords. Huron Blackheart can be found here now.

Next we lose the Thousand Sons and Death Guard codices. Now we can focus on Legions proper. I've proposed this before and it's pretty easy as long as you're not focused on every single Death Guard being a bloated mess and every Thousand Sons MUST be a Rubric Marine, and let Chapter Tactics equivalents help with some of that problem.

Lastly we have the Inquisition and their fighters they deal with. Sisters, Deathwatch, and Grey Knights go here. None of those codices are so big that even if you meshed them together as is it would be as big as the last Marine codex that was released.

My, probably unpopular, opinion is that DA and SW definitely had enough uniqueness to warrant their own books. Then GW put things like all biker/termie armies and chapter tactics into the vanilla book which rather defeated the point.

At this point I'd massively cut back on what's in the vanilla book so that's not got things like 5 supplements. Vanilla Marines should just be vanilla marines rather than non-compliant Chapters but with more and better stuff.
Chaos can have the one Chaos Marine book with DG and co in it, Harlequins go into a generic Eldar minor faction codex with Ynnari and proper Corsairs, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Inquisition, Assassins, Sisters of Silence and Custodes go into an Imperial Special Forces book.

Really, I'd change a lot but that's the broad codex changes and other things don't really fit into that.

pm713 wrote:
My, probably unpopular, opinion is that DA and SW definitely had enough uniqueness to warrant their own books. Then GW put things like all biker/termie armies and chapter tactics into the vanilla book which rather defeated the point.

At this point I'd massively cut back on what's in the vanilla book so that's not got things like 5 supplements. Vanilla Marines should just be vanilla marines rather than non-compliant Chapters but with more and better stuff.
Chaos can have the one Chaos Marine book with DG and co in it, Harlequins go into a generic Eldar minor faction codex with Ynnari and proper Corsairs, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Inquisition, Assassins, Sisters of Silence and Custodes go into an Imperial Special Forces book.

Really, I'd change a lot but that's the broad codex changes and other things don't really fit into that.

Hilarious/tyrpical Marine focussed logic that you consider Wolves and Angels somehow different enough that they absolutely need a super special Codex of their own but entire races have to settle with one as do all none Marine Imperials.

Dark Angels special rules could be fitted on a single page of A4, half the Wolves stuff is something that many Chapters should have access to - Chainswords, mutants (Black Dragons etc), Terminator squad leaders (Iron Hands). Much of their specialiness is name changes, weapon options or single rules.

 Mr Morden wrote:

pm713 wrote:
My, probably unpopular, opinion is that DA and SW definitely had enough uniqueness to warrant their own books. Then GW put things like all biker/termie armies and chapter tactics into the vanilla book which rather defeated the point.

At this point I'd massively cut back on what's in the vanilla book so that's not got things like 5 supplements. Vanilla Marines should just be vanilla marines rather than non-compliant Chapters but with more and better stuff.
Chaos can have the one Chaos Marine book with DG and co in it, Harlequins go into a generic Eldar minor faction codex with Ynnari and proper Corsairs, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Inquisition, Assassins, Sisters of Silence and Custodes go into an Imperial Special Forces book.

Really, I'd change a lot but that's the broad codex changes and other things don't really fit into that.

Hilarious/tyrpical Marine focussed logic that you consider Wolves and Angels somehow different enough that they absolutely need a super special Codex of their own but entire races have to settle with one as do all none Marine Imperials.

Dark Angels special rules could be fitted on a single page of A4, half the Wolves stuff is something that many Chapters should have access to - Chainswords, mutants (Black Dragons etc), Terminator squad leaders (Iron Hands). Much of their specialiness is name changes, weapon options or single rules.

Angels are focused on the ravenwing and deathwing and wolves have numerous units that are different in both fluff and gameplay purpose to vanilla equivalents.

What races do you mean?

Mutants is a weird claim. How many of them are actually different in practice to other Marines? Black Dragons are their bone blades are one but then what? Special profiles for Salamanders? For Raven Guard?

pm713 wrote:
Angels are focused on the ravenwing and deathwing

8/10s of the Chapter are just like normal Codex Chapters. Sorry, but two companies does not a Chapter make.

Unless you broke DA into being ONLY Ravenwing and Deathwing, and don't give them any greenwing.

and wolves have numerous units that are different in both fluff and gameplay purpose to vanilla equivalents.

Kinda? I mean, so were the Black Templars, and look what happened to them. The only SW units I can think that are drastically different are their Wolf Priests (filling in an Apothecary role too), Thunderwolf Cavalry, their unique gunships, and Wulfen. I'm fairly sure the rest of their army can work decently well under normal Codex rules, surely? Maybe aside from Wolf Standards and suchlike.

I'd rather see each main Space Marine chapter have their own codex so we'd have the following:

Codex Dark Angels
Codex White Scars
Codex Space Wolves
Codex Imperial Fists
Codex Blood Angels
Codex Iron Hands
Codex Ultramarines
Codex Salamanders
Codex Raven Guard
Codex Alpha Legion (Technically a Space Marine chapter that has loyal elements and the most unique codex of any listed in this post)

Plus a Codex each for the Black Templars, Deathwatch, and Grey Knights.

Have GW get in there deep and really flesh out both the lore and the special rules and unique units for each chapter and their successors.

EDIT: Plus, the DA and BA have been considered unique enough to have their own Codex since 1996.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Angels are focused on the ravenwing and deathwing

8/10s of the Chapter are just like normal Codex Chapters. Sorry, but two companies does not a Chapter make.

Unless you broke DA into being ONLY Ravenwing and Deathwing, and don't give them any greenwing.

and wolves have numerous units that are different in both fluff and gameplay purpose to vanilla equivalents.

Kinda? I mean, so were the Black Templars, and look what happened to them. The only SW units I can think that are drastically different are their Wolf Priests (filling in an Apothecary role too), Thunderwolf Cavalry, their unique gunships, and Wulfen. I'm fairly sure the rest of their army can work decently well under normal Codex rules, surely? Maybe aside from Wolf Standards and suchlike.

I think what to do with greenwing depends on what you do with the fallen rules. If you still have special anti chaos rules then you could make greenwing have rules to encourage keeping them away from fallen to represent the secrecy. But you do have a point.

I'd argue the various Claw units are different enough as well as they just mob the enemy and Scouts used to be different enough before the rule switch.

 Apple Peel wrote:
If I had my way, it would be split into two books.

Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes: Codex Compliant
Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes: Codex Non-Compliant

The first is essentially the current Space Marine codex.
The second one is tossing DA, BA, SW, (maybe BT), together into a codex, with rules for making codex non-compliant chapters.

Grey Knights and Deathwatch either get put into Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes: Specialists, or they are put into an Imprial Agents book.

BA are codex compliant. At least, they have all the downsides of it.

The variant space marine codexes are different from each other in the same way the different races in Sid Meyer's Civilization are different from each other. You're still going to be using the same strategies and units, the unique units being used because they're almost always more powerful than the generic version rather than because they're integral to how they play. You can even see how little they matter when one marine codex is weaker, because people will proxy with a different, stronger codex.

pm713 wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

pm713 wrote:
My, probably unpopular, opinion is that DA and SW definitely had enough uniqueness to warrant their own books. Then GW put things like all biker/termie armies and chapter tactics into the vanilla book which rather defeated the point.

At this point I'd massively cut back on what's in the vanilla book so that's not got things like 5 supplements. Vanilla Marines should just be vanilla marines rather than non-compliant Chapters but with more and better stuff.
Chaos can have the one Chaos Marine book with DG and co in it, Harlequins go into a generic Eldar minor faction codex with Ynnari and proper Corsairs, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Inquisition, Assassins, Sisters of Silence and Custodes go into an Imperial Special Forces book.

Really, I'd change a lot but that's the broad codex changes and other things don't really fit into that.

Hilarious/tyrpical Marine focussed logic that you consider Wolves and Angels somehow different enough that they absolutely need a super special Codex of their own but entire races have to settle with one as do all none Marine Imperials.

Dark Angels special rules could be fitted on a single page of A4, half the Wolves stuff is something that many Chapters should have access to - Chainswords, mutants (Black Dragons etc), Terminator squad leaders (Iron Hands). Much of their specialiness is name changes, weapon options or single rules.

Angels are focused on the ravenwing and deathwing and wolves have numerous units that are different in both fluff and gameplay purpose to vanilla equivalents.

What races do you mean?

Mutants is a weird claim. How many of them are actually different in practice to other Marines? Black Dragons are their bone blades are one but then what? Special profiles for Salamanders? For Raven Guard?

Single Codex for Eldar apparently and we already have just the one Codex for Orks, Necrons and Tau cos they don't derserve more?

And again in actual rules/datasheets what exactly needs to be added to basic unit to igve Dark Angels the options to run Deathwing/Ravenwing. Why exactly is a Codex needed rather than at most a suppplement?
Which units in the Wolves could not be handled by minor unit options or name changes and again how is this not handable by a most a Supplement.

 Canadian 5th wrote:
I'd rather see each main Space Marine chapter have their own codex so we'd have the following:

Codex Dark Angels
Codex White Scars
Codex Space Wolves
Codex Imperial Fists
Codex Blood Angels
Codex Iron Hands
Codex Ultramarines
Codex Salamanders
Codex Raven Guard
Codex Alpha Legion (Technically a Space Marine chapter that has loyal elements and the most unique codex of any listed in this post)

Plus a Codex each for the Black Templars, Deathwatch, and Grey Knights.

Have GW get in there deep and really flesh out both the lore and the special rules and unique units for each chapter and their successors.

EDIT: Plus, the DA and BA have been considered unique enough to have their own Codex since 1996.

Ahh you are one THOSE players who just wants Marines in the game - gotcha.

Like I said assuming there is a god given right to have a codex becuase they had one before - and feth the rest....wonderful.
Next line will be "don;t take my army away from me when everything could be handled in at most a supplement with NO LOSS of anything.
And finally before the final accusation of hating Marines is dragged out out of the cage to beat again - nope my largest armies are Marines - msotly Ultras, Wolves and Dark Angels....

 Mr Morden wrote:
And again in actual rules/datasheets what exactly needs to be added to basic unit to igve Dark Angels the options to run Deathwing/Ravenwing. Why exactly is a Codex needed rather than at most a suppplement?
Which units in the Wolves could not be handled by minor unit options or name changes and again how is this not handable by a most a Supplement.

Why remove a Codex from a chapter that has had one since 1996?

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
And again in actual rules/datasheets what exactly needs to be added to basic unit to igve Dark Angels the options to run Deathwing/Ravenwing. Why exactly is a Codex needed rather than at most a suppplement?
Which units in the Wolves could not be handled by minor unit options or name changes and again how is this not handable by a most a Supplement.

Why remove a Codex from a chapter that has had one since 1996?

I know and have all those old codexes.

So WHY do we need a codex when as I have said the options could be covered in a supplement at most - is this a staus thing for you or some other reason. What part can nont coverd ina supplement.

Why do you want to take those resources away from others?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Ahh you are one THOSE players who just wants Marines in the game - gotcha.

Like I said assuming there is a god given right to have a codex becuase they had one before - and feth the rest....wonderful.
Next line will be "don;t take my army away from me when everything could be handled in at most a supplement with NO LOSS of anything.
And finally before the final accusation of hating Marines is dragged out out of the cage to beat again - nope my largest armies are Marines - msotly Ultras, Wolves and Dark Angels....

Nope, I'd also like them to do the same for Eldar, Guard, Tyranid Splinter Fleets, etc. I mentioned Marines because they're what the OP made this thread about.

 Mr Morden wrote:
WHY do we need a codex when as I have said the options could be covered in a supplement at most - is this a staus thing for you or some other reason.

Why does 40k as a game need to exist? When you reduce things far enough this entire game is a waste of resources designed to manipulate people into spending money on it. Given this truth, why argue for less content rather than expanding to ensure that ever niche is fleshed out and filled to bursting?

 Apple Peel wrote:
If I had my way, it would be split into two books.

Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes: Codex Compliant
Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes: Codex Non-Compliant

The first is essentially the current Space Marine codex.
The second one is tossing DA, BA, SW, (maybe BT), together into a codex, with rules for making codex non-compliant chapters.

Grey Knights and Deathwatch either get put into Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes: Specialists, or they are put into an Imprial Agents book.

So what defines compliant and non compliant? DA & BA are still more or less compliant. They are classified as codex chapters unlike they wolves.

Kanluwen wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I've suggested this approach countless times before. It's always been met with "but DA/BA/SW have too many unique units, you'd never fit them all in!" (which is untrue, would easily be possible to get them in - the Ultramarines, with their slew of unique units and characters manage just fine), or something like "it's just confusing for people who want to play DA/BA/SW!" (but apparently everyone else is fine?), or "that means I need to buy more books!" (again, what about the other Chapters who don't get their own shiny personalised Codex?)

To be fair, in the past we didn't have a simple way of adding something like keywords to the existing units--and in many instances the people(not necessarily you) who initially broach the topic insisted on doing something like what Apple_Peel has done--they suggest just jamming things together into "<insert number here> of books". There's usually no attempt to actually understand what made those Chapters and their items unique nor was there really attempts to separate out some of the units to retain them as 'hallmarks' for their Chapters. It was always just "We need less books but things still need to go together because reasons!", meaning nonsense would occur like Baal Predators or the huge swathes of characters get added to the book doing nothing more than making large books even larger.

We don't need a book for "Non-Compliant Chapters". The parts about them that make the Chapters "Non-Compliant" can be in a Chapter supplement book alongside of characters, relics, and stratagems.

Basically, even if the books functioned identically and nothing was lost, essentially being a Codex in all but name, certain people would still complain they didn't get it a "proper Codex".

Yeah, and those same people will complain that they don't get updated or they don't get X item that the Codex does. Those individuals tend to be contrarians for the sake of being contrarian.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crispy78 wrote:
The guard factions are all one codex aren't they?

By "Guard", I'm referring to potentially offering up something like a Cadian supplement that has Creed, Kell, and Pask in them alongside of rules for Cadian Detachments and unique units.
I'd take it a step further, personally, and remove their access to certain things in exchange for those unique units.
Same goes for the Catachans.

Not sure you could do the same with the eldar. There isn't a single common unit between any of the 3 eldar factions. It's not like the space marine factions where lots of the vehicles and units are the same...

I think you've misunderstood the reference to the Aeldari and Drukhari. It wasn't saying that you could turn Drukhari into a supplement book for them or the like--it was opening up space for stuff like a Wych Cult book with expanded rules for Wych Cults, a Kabalite book, and a Coven book.

With Aeldari, some of the factions have as many unique units and characters(which is to say "they have a single one" ) as a good chunk of the Codex Chapters that got supplements did for Marines.

We do have the keyword system now, so get over the past. Nobody said to remove their unique units. At most, some lore pages might be removed. Less books means less separate errata documents.
Shared units that have no differences among the chapters are in a collective section. Space Wolves’ unique units and other chapters’ likewise units go into a unique section with their own datasheets. Each chapter still has its own unique rules section with warlord traits, strats, etc.

Martel732 wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
If I had my way, it would be split into two books.

Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes: Codex Compliant
Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes: Codex Non-Compliant

The first is essentially the current Space Marine codex.
The second one is tossing DA, BA, SW, (maybe BT), together into a codex, with rules for making codex non-compliant chapters.

Grey Knights and Deathwatch either get put into Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes: Specialists, or they are put into an Imprial Agents book.

BA are codex compliant. At least, they have all the downsides of it.

They have their secret Death Company. Dante declared that they can engorge their scout company, which is so large it can field multiple armies of scouts. Strike two. If they get to kept their unique-engined vehicles and they are the only ones allowed to take librarian dreads, etc. then they get thrown in the non-compliant category., contrary to what they like to claim.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
If I had my way, it would be split into two books.

Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes: Codex Compliant
Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes: Codex Non-Compliant

The first is essentially the current Space Marine codex.
The second one is tossing DA, BA, SW, (maybe BT), together into a codex, with rules for making codex non-compliant chapters.

Grey Knights and Deathwatch either get put into Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes: Specialists, or they are put into an Imprial Agents book.

So what defines compliant and non compliant? DA & BA are still more or less compliant. They are classified as codex chapters unlike they wolves.

Just clarified why now. Besides, the non-compliant codex also allows for rules for “your dudes” non-compliant chapters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think Dark Angels are probably the least non-compliant chapter, but if they still want to be unique and different from the compliant chapters, they get thrown into the non-compliant category.

I disagree with the supplement idea.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Ahh you are one THOSE players who just wants Marines in the game - gotcha.

Like I said assuming there is a god given right to have a codex becuase they had one before - and feth the rest....wonderful.
Next line will be "don;t take my army away from me when everything could be handled in at most a supplement with NO LOSS of anything.
And finally before the final accusation of hating Marines is dragged out out of the cage to beat again - nope my largest armies are Marines - msotly Ultras, Wolves and Dark Angels....

Nope, I'd also like them to do the same for Eldar, Guard, Tyranid Splinter Fleets, etc. I mentioned Marines because they're what the OP made this thread about.

 Mr Morden wrote:
WHY do we need a codex when as I have said the options could be covered in a supplement at most - is this a staus thing for you or some other reason.

Why does 40k as a game need to exist? When you reduce things far enough this entire game is a waste of resources designed to manipulate people into spending money on it. Given this truth, why argue for less content rather than expanding to ensure that ever niche is fleshed out and filled to bursting?

Where is this mythical "reduction" coming from = less content. Certainly not anything I suggested.

Its the SAME fething rules and content just not spread and reprinted across half a dozen books as they are now. Again why do you think the Wolves and Angels are such a specila case that they must have this duplication except "cos they had it before"

Its not like they bothererd to do much other than copy paste the old codex lore into the new ones.

I think Dark Angels are probably the least non-compliant chapter, but if they still want to be unique and different from the compliant chapters, they get thrown into the non-compliant category.
I disagree with the supplement ide

Why do you disagree?
It just each edition tries to make them a little less compliant but adding units with the word Dark, Blood or Wolf added to them to make that Codex seem like its justified.

So we don’t have to scroll through and find individual Ultramarines or Dark Angels or Blood Angels or Space Wolves or Iron Hands or Raven Guard or Salamanders or Imperial Fists or Black Templars or White Scars. We have to get brand new FAQs immediately after a supplement or codex is released after a book is put out that has the same fix to a stratagem or rule that was fixed in the exact same way for a book that was released two months before. Instead of 9 different supplement FAQs that have the same issue that needs correcting, make it two. Get it done and over with. Free up the release schedule so we can have interesting campaigns and new mission sets.
That’s why I disagree with everyone getting their own supplement. Two is way more than every faction should get, but because Space Marines is so big as a category, it should be the max.

The weird thing about "Codex Compliant" is that even the Ultramarines don't follow their own book to the letter, since they have the Tyrannic War Veterans

 Mr Morden wrote:
Where is this mythical "reduction" coming from = less content. Certainly not anything I suggested.

Its the SAME fething rules and content just not spread and reprinted across half a dozen books as they are now. Again why do you think the Wolves and Angels are such a specila case that they must have this duplication except "cos they had it before"

Its not like they bothererd to do much other than copy paste the old codex lore into the new ones.

We'd get less lore, fewer pieces of unique chapter-specific art, less attention paid to special rules and unique units. I'd rather see each and every major player in 40k get their own book that is given as much love and care as Codex Ultramarines. Baring that the current level of unique releases is preferable to consolidating things down into bland bundles where nobody gets as much love.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
The weird thing about "Codex Compliant" is that even the Ultramarines don't follow their own book to the letter, since they have the Tyrannic War Veterans

It’s basically a veteran squad with an extra tidbit about Tyranids. That unit (or the anti Tyranid tidbit, so it could be used elsewhere—looking at Blood Angels—) could be put into a campaign book, and the rules could be updated in legends.

 Apple Peel wrote:

We do have the keyword system now, so get over the past. Nobody said to remove their unique units. At most, some lore pages might be removed. Less books means less separate errata documents.
Shared units that have no differences among the chapters are in a collective section. Space Wolves’ unique units and other chapters’ likewise units go into a unique section with their own datasheets. Each chapter still has its own unique rules section with warlord traits, strats, etc.

And then all you've done is create two massive books, rather than one book and a supplement.

Just so we are clear:
"Bloat" to me is unnecessarily inflating the size of an item. Rolling a bunch of books that have no real rhyme or reason other than "they're Marines" is bloat.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

We do have the keyword system now, so get over the past. Nobody said to remove their unique units. At most, some lore pages might be removed. Less books means less separate errata documents.
Shared units that have no differences among the chapters are in a collective section. Space Wolves’ unique units and other chapters’ likewise units go into a unique section with their own datasheets. Each chapter still has its own unique rules section with warlord traits, strats, etc.

And then all you've done is create two massive books, rather than one book and a supplement.

“Massive”

One book and nine supplement books.
If someone wants to take two different chapters together, they now have three books total in their possession.
If that person wants to play UM, RA, and BA, now they are carrying four books total.
With two books, you will only ever carry two books at a time.

And what about the person who only wants to play one Chapter, having to cart around a massive book?