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Brutus_Apex wrote:I didn't sign up for 40K for hope, and futuristic space soldiers. I signed up for knights in space, death, religious zealotry, nihilism, pain, daemons, doom, destruction, magic.
40k has both. Like it or not, Space Marines can be BOTH futuristic space solider, and knights in space. And in many depictions of both classic and new Marines, we see both angles. There's plenty of material of old Marines being closer to the futuristic side, and plenty of material of Primaris Marines looking super knightly and religiously devout. Pick what you like in 40k and stick to it, but don't pretend like your personal preferences in 40k are the only things people can enjoy from it.
Sacrificing what 40K is at its core just to sell some more toys cheapens its identity and ultimately will ruin what was original and great about it.
Original? Like this?
Spoiler:
40k is more than any single thing. Don't act like your preferences are the "core" or "great" ones when the setting has always been more than that.
techsoldaten wrote:Conversations about Primaris seem different, the accusations and name calling are not something I've noticed with other factions.
Maybe it would be a start if the moment Primaris were brought up in conversation, we didn't have people making comments like "No-one who is actually a fan of 40k wants Primaris." or "no true fan of old-school 40k wants Primaris Marines" or similar kinds of quotes that strongly imply that liking Primaris makes you a fake fan.
Just a thought.
Criticism of Primaris not fitting your personal preferences? Fine. Declaring that Primaris are seemingly objectively not-40k, and insinuating that anyone who likes them isn't a 40k fan? Not fine.
Deadnight wrote:And for what it's worth, I have no issues with you disliking primaris. I think they're fantastic. You don't have to buy them, ever. Or like them. But please, at least respect the fact that other people, including some old schoolers do like them, and frankly, feel less welcome in this hobby when you leave what you've written above out there. If anything cheapens the hobby, it's that. We are all better than that.
Exalted, absolutely. That's absolutely my belief on the matter. Like them, don't like them, whatever you want, but don't imply that Your Way 2 Play is the "true" way, and imply that people who have different opinions aren't welcome in the "true" hobby.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/23 09:20:01
If Chaos get Primaris Marines, I'd much rather see them done as something like "Horus Heresy Veterans" than "Chaos Primaris" if they just can't upscale marines without needing a fluff excuse. The Primaris fluff is...awful, it really is just about the laziest, hamfisted, blatant marketing push I've seen in a wargame, and it just comes off as corny in the extreme, more 80's saturday morning GI-Joe "hey kids pester your parents to buy this new toy!" than anything else. Whoever was in charge of that project and whoever signed off on that background really should feel professionally embarrassed for that bit of it (even if the models actually are in most cases neat)
If they want to show what a warp fueled traitor with ten millenia of combat experience and an unshackled perception of reality however, a Chaos Primaris equivalent isn't a bad idea.
But does Chaos really *need* it? I can't say I'm dying for the option myself with my Iron Warriors. I'd rather my basic CSM's just be made more playable.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Not bothered by getting chaos primaris, I'd rather just be given some buffs or tweaks somewhere for chaos marines; as in stock troop marines, to better compete with intercessors on some level.
There is room for some chaos units to get some stats buffs up to "elite" level and if they want to add in primaris or something close, I'd hope it was a ranged unit rather than yet another semi elite melee unit.
Deadnight wrote: with respect, if you truly are 'leaving a lot of room for other people to have other opinions', cool it with with your declarations of what 'true old school fans of the setting' will like. That's sneering, unhelpful, unwelcoming, elitist bs and it helps no one and frankly, just inflames people. Wild statements like this do more harm to the community than primaris. I really genuinely do not feel welcome here now. And frankly, that's not a community I want to be a part of. Make a bigger table, not higher walls. I am easy going, and welcome your different perspectives and thoughts and opinions. There is a place for all of that. But this is one thing that stands against you.
Like what you like. By all means. But never try to claim the moral high ground of what 'true' fans will like. There's contemptible. And does you no favours.
Deadnight coming out spitting truths like it's going out of fashion!
No-one cares if you like or dislike Primaris. Just please quit it with the whole "true fans" narrative. It's grossly inaccurate, and antagonises people who *do* like Primaris - can you blame them for being "heated" when the conversation essentially starts with "because you like this thing, which "true fans" detest, you must not be a true fan"?
By all means, share your opinions on why you don't like it, but for heaven's sake, don't appeal to the whole "true fans" or "real Marines" nonsense. That's just implying that people who have different opinions aren't welcome in the community.
Does Chaos want Primaris & their stuff story wise? Yes, of course! Why wouldn't Chaos want to corrupt the slightly bigger marines?
And for those of you going on about how the Primaris are "hope delivered" & stuff? Well what happens when that "hope delivered" turns out to be just as corruptible as everything else? Oh, so grimdark....
Does GW want Chaos Primaris? If they think that'll make enough $, then that answer will be yes yes yes. They'll become very willing to sell you a box of Interwhatzotz - with spikes!
Do the players of Chaos armies want Chaos Primaris?
Well. There's probably as many answers to this as there are Chaos players....
Yeah, I'm leaving a lot of room for other people to have other opinions. Thanks for sharing yours.
Are you? Are you really? Your above statement contradicts you.
with respect, if you truly are 'leaving a lot of room for other people to have other opinions', cool it with with your declarations of what 'true old school fans of the setting' will like. That's sneering, unhelpful, unwelcoming, elitist bs and it helps no one and frankly, just inflames people. Wild statements like this do more harm to the community than primaris. I really genuinely do not feel welcome here now. And frankly, that's not a community I want to be a part of. Make a bigger table, not higher walls. I am easy going, and welcome your different perspectives and thoughts and opinions. There is a place for all of that. But this is one thing that stands against you.
Like what you like. By all means. But never try to claim the moral high ground of what 'true' fans will like. There's contemptible. And does you no favours.
I'm not telling anyone their perspective is garbage.
Saying old school players might have a problem with the way Primaris fit into the setting is not controversial or inflammatory. It's not that they are more right than other players, it's just that old-school players are more likely to hold this opinion. Not sure that's even something to argue about, someone new to the game probably doesn't know any different.
And, honestly - where are you coming from with talking about the moral high ground?
40k is more than any single thing. Don't act like your preferences are the "core" or "great" ones when the setting has always been more than that.
I don't know if that image is official or not. But if it is, thats exactly what I mean about cheapening the IP.
As a joke, whatever. It's funny. But as an officially recognized example of 40K canon, it's an abomination.
40K is more than one single thing, but I will continue to act like my preferences are the great part of the game because IMO they are. You may have different preferences and I can't change that, but I strongly believe that my vision of 40K is the strongest vision of it, and straying into a newer high tech version of it is a mistake.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/21 18:38:06
Square Bases for Life!
AoS is pure garbage
Kill Primaris, Kill the Primarchs. They don't belong in 40K
40K is fantasy in space, not sci-fi
Kanluwen wrote: There's a reason why 'bs is so widespread' and it's because one side continually insists upon not actually bothering to read even a cursory amount of lore on the subject.
The Awoken(the 'secret stash of heresy-era warriors' you mentioned) are done, lorewise. They're the ones who were trained and conditioned for one role and one role only. That's what we initially saw added in with the Primaris, and they've moved on since then to the Ascended and the Primaris coming up via the standard Initiate->Marine route.
You are mistaking "not liking that" for "not reading that."
It's a matter of taste. I'd rather it not be part of the lore and certainly kept far away from Chaos.
Some lore is complete gak. Generally depends on the reader.
Kanluwen wrote: No, I'm absolutely 100% not mistaking "not liking that" for "not reading that".
It's been a problem in the background forums for a long time. It's been a problem in discussion about Primaris, period. People go to 1d4chan or Reddit for whatever stupid reason to get their lore, rather than actually reading a damn book.
It's okay for you to say "I didn't know that existed!" instead of pretending that "Well I just didn't like that lore!", by the way. The Awoken are finished, move on and find a new scapegoat reason to whine about Primaris.
Not to put too fine a point on it (and also not to step to close to the landmine of getting political), but have you been anywhere else on the internet in the last decade? It's a combatative, hostile, tribalist era we're living through, everyone seems to have forgotten how to peacefully disagree with each other. Facebook actively tries to filter content to match the information bubble it thinks I prefer and I still can't spend more that 15 minutes there without thinking that the US is right on the edge of actual sectarian violence. I'd be more surprised if a forum like this didn't reflect the tenor of the time.
40K is more than one single thing, but I will continue to act like my preferences are the great part of the game because IMO they are. You may have different preferences and I can't change that, but I strongly believe that my vision of 40K is the strongest vision of it, and straying into a newer high tech version of it is a mistake.
I'm going to say not even high-tech, but specifically going with
modern-military looking tech. That's where the parallels with COD etc. are drawn, and it feels like a cop-out in terms of design. Space Marines have high tech, it just tends not to look so much like OUR technology.
If they added spiky Primaris and said "Fabius made this" - I'd be fine with it.
I'll admit it - I'm over 30, so obviously I hate anything new - which I define as anything that was added to the game since I was about 12 - but over the years the Primaris have grown on me, and having assembled and painted some I find they just look better than old marines. The new Chaos Marine kit is a big improvement on the old - but it doesn't have the same weight as Primaris.
I guess its a bit like dinobots. Initially hated them, now I think they are kind of cool. I quite like spiderbot, even though its a fundamentally confused datasheet.
Rules wise - barring a major change, the basic CSM is obsolete, and just about every model based on that stat line is various shades of bad/overcosted with it. Yes "Cults" could get the extra wound and attack treatment - but why not just apply it to everyone? If basic CSM were effectively Intercessors, they'd be considerably better. To a degree this a function of points - knock CSM down to say 9 points and we might be talking - but really this doesn't "feel" like the fluff. My elite 10,000 year old warriors, theoretically the main adversary of the Imperium, are reduced to chaff comparable to a SoB or Skitarri. They are clearly no match for Primaris.
Fluffwise? Again, I don't really care. I could argue that 40k was this tightly defined thing that consisted of the lore found in the 3rd edition Big Black Book - and Tau, Necrons, Grey Knights, screw it just about everything in the last 20 years is a heretic deviation from the true 40k. But it just seems silly. The ship sailed long ago. Primaris will soon have been with us for 3 years and in the modern world that feels like a lifetime.
Hey folks, this topic has been generating some alerts, so I am going to kindly ask you to to keep things polite, on topic and to be excellent to one and all.
Deadnight wrote: Primaris are nothing new. This plot has been done repeatedly.
I don't think there has ever before been a circumstance in 40k where a new faction has threatened to outright replace an existing faction. Combine this with the fact that it's the most popular faction, central and existing since the dawn of the setting, and you're going to have a very obvious point of tension.
Now GW has not said that they are replacing the old line, but much of the lore neems to suggest it as a direction, and a bunch of our pre-existing characters ard being "Primarized", actually replacing units we've used for decades.
It's fine that Thunder Warriors were replaced lore-wise. GW didn't build their brand on and actively sell Thunder Warriors for 30 years prior to that lore event.
I would have had waaaay less of a beef with Primaris if they were introduced differently, in more moderation setting-wise, and give the classics such an uncertain future. I would have still not liked them, but I could have more effectively ignored them.
At this point, Chaos can just manifest million super duper chaos space marines tomorrow and they will make just as much sense lore wise.
If not being snarky, yes, Chaos wants it was they do not have that toy and Primaris is just superior super soldiers. So, just better thing.
As for newer books, I did not read them. Yet, I'm not sure if that you said is true. Even back then there were really bad novels like we have today. We used to call them "bolter porn". Meaning that heroic squad or hero will take on ridiculous odds against one dimensional baddies who will give long monologues of how evil they are. Battle for the Abyss if I'm not mistaken is book like this where one side is super heroic, their only flaw is that one side is fanatically loyal and will do everything to win and safeguard humanity. And another flawed side is that they are willing to go even beyond that is permitted in order to heroically safeguard humanity. While their enemies are gloating and talking how evil they are, but can't kill even a single character despite being hyped all book long.
Or we have a story where a God had Magnus pinned down, isolated and helpless. Magnus said something along the lines: "Stop being evil, come live in my book, it will be amazing" and God agreed. Magnus won the day through its 100 skill in rhetoric... Or there was Lighting in a bottle where Space Marines have virtual simulation device which can generate entire warzones and let Space Marines to train in it like it would be a real war, but they do not want to, because "True warriors are ought to fight and die for the glory of the Emperor". Then Chaos lord somehow gets in simulation with his legions of demons. One space marine servant then gets in terminator armor and single handedly goes into simulation to kill legion of demons and Chaos lord. At least he had failed in the end, but it was really bad. Like, Bloodletters would point their swords and they would go "phew phew". I wish, I was lying...
Black library in my eyes always had this quality of producing a lot of either absolute turds or absolute literary gems.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2020/04/21 20:08:50
"If the path to salvation leads through the halls of purgatory, then so be it."
Death Guard = 728 (PL 41) and Space Marines = 831 (PL 50)
Slaanesh demons = 460
Khorne demons = 420
Nighthaunts = 840 points Stormcast Eternals = 880 points.
Ernestas wrote: At this point, Chaos can just manifest million super duper chaos space marines tomorrow and they will make just as much sense lore wise.
If not being snarky, yes, Chaos wants it was they do not have that toy and Primaris is just superior super soldiers. So, just better thing.
As for newer books, I did not read them. Yet, I'm not sure if that you said is true. Even back then there were really bad novels like we have today. We used to call them "bolter porn". Meaning that heroic squad or hero will take on ridiculous odds against one dimensional baddies who will give long monologues of how evil they are. Battle for the Abyss if I'm not mistaken is book like this where one side is super heroic, their only flaw is that one side is fanatically loyal and will do everything to win and safeguard humanity. And another flawed side is that they are willing to go even beyond that is permitted in order to heroically safeguard humanity. While their enemies are gloating and talking how evil they are, but can't kill even a single character despite being hyped all book long.
Or we have a story where a God had Magnus pinned down, isolated and helpless. Magnus said something along the lines: "Stop being evil, come live in my book, it will be amazing" and God agreed. Magnus won the day through its 100 skill in rhetoric... Or there was Lighting in a bottle where Space Marines have virtual simulation device which can generate entire warzones and let Space Marines to train in it like it would be a real war, but they do not want to, because "True warriors are ought to fight and die for the glory of the Emperor". Then Chaos lord somehow gets in simulation with his legions of demons. One space marine servant then gets in terminator armor and single handedly goes into simulation to kill legion of demons and Chaos lord. At least he had failed in the end, but it was really bad. Like, Bloodletters would point their swords and they would go "phew phew". I wish, I was lying...
Black library in my eyes always had this quality of producing a lot of either absolute turds or absolute literary gems.
Well Vigilus is proper GW lore. Meaning that it is produced by GW not BL. Yes, bolter porn has always been a thing in the past 20 years. But my statement is that it has become so wide spread and consistent that people do not even see it anymore. Its base line. And I would have to disaree with you about chaos players wanting primaris. I dont think I have ever met or know another chaos player who wants them. It goes against the grain of why alot of us are drawn to chaos as a faction. And no, we dont always want marines +1. We want more parity. We want things we should have but dont. But this is a whole other discussion and it would be best to tackle that with its own thread.
I think this is the crux of the issue too. It would be cool from a modelers perspective because the primaris proportions look so much better. However, I'm quite fond of the new kits.
What I would like to see is some sort of super mixable possessed primaris unit. Imagine hulking chaos beasts with the arms of Aggressors and other bits from infiltrators, or something like that.
Ernestas wrote: At this point, Chaos can just manifest million super duper chaos space marines tomorrow and they will make just as much sense lore wise.
If not being snarky, yes, Chaos wants it was they do not have that toy and Primaris is just superior super soldiers. So, just better thing.
As for newer books, I did not read them. Yet, I'm not sure if that you said is true. Even back then there were really bad novels like we have today. We used to call them "bolter porn". Meaning that heroic squad or hero will take on ridiculous odds against one dimensional baddies who will give long monologues of how evil they are. Battle for the Abyss if I'm not mistaken is book like this where one side is super heroic, their only flaw is that one side is fanatically loyal and will do everything to win and safeguard humanity. And another flawed side is that they are willing to go even beyond that is permitted in order to heroically safeguard humanity. While their enemies are gloating and talking how evil they are, but can't kill even a single character despite being hyped all book long.
Or we have a story where a God had Magnus pinned down, isolated and helpless. Magnus said something along the lines: "Stop being evil, come live in my book, it will be amazing" and God agreed. Magnus won the day through its 100 skill in rhetoric... Or there was Lighting in a bottle where Space Marines have virtual simulation device which can generate entire warzones and let Space Marines to train in it like it would be a real war, but they do not want to, because "True warriors are ought to fight and die for the glory of the Emperor". Then Chaos lord somehow gets in simulation with his legions of demons. One space marine servant then gets in terminator armor and single handedly goes into simulation to kill legion of demons and Chaos lord. At least he had failed in the end, but it was really bad. Like, Bloodletters would point their swords and they would go "phew phew". I wish, I was lying...
Black library in my eyes always had this quality of producing a lot of either absolute turds or absolute literary gems.
Well Vigilus is proper GW lore. Meaning that it is produced by GW not BL. Yes, bolter porn has always been a thing in the past 20 years. But my statement is that it has become so wide spread and consistent that people do not even see it anymore. Its base line. And I would have to disaree with you about chaos players wanting primaris. I dont think I have ever met or know another chaos player who wants them. It goes against the grain of why alot of us are drawn to chaos as a faction. And no, we dont always want marines +1. We want more parity. We want things we should have but dont. But this is a whole other discussion and it would be best to tackle that with its own thread.
Hello.
Nice to meet you, I am a chaos player and I would like Primaris Chaos Marines.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/21 20:23:43
I talked from Chaos perspective as Gods or Warbands. Though, I'm thinking of Word Bearers legion in a future and I always disliked how Space Marines are balanced on table top. They are supposed to be these super baddases, but they are barely better than elite IG formations. 1 wound is especially infuriating for me. Primaris Marines for me is merely rebalancing tabletop to better represent what space marines supposed to be in a first place. I would like seeing same thing and with Chaos too.
"If the path to salvation leads through the halls of purgatory, then so be it."
Death Guard = 728 (PL 41) and Space Marines = 831 (PL 50)
Slaanesh demons = 460
Khorne demons = 420
Nighthaunts = 840 points Stormcast Eternals = 880 points.
I think this is the crux of the issue too. It would be cool from a modelers perspective because the primaris proportions look so much better. However, I'm quite fond of the new kits.
What I would like to see is some sort of super mixable possessed primaris unit. Imagine hulking chaos beasts with the arms of Aggressors and other bits from infiltrators, or something like that.
I'd dig frankenprimastodes .
I'd also dig Stolen equipment options for champions though
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/04/21 20:50:49
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
40k is more than any single thing. Don't act like your preferences are the "core" or "great" ones when the setting has always been more than that.
I don't know if that image is official or not. But if it is, thats exactly what I mean about cheapening the IP.
As a joke, whatever. It's funny. But as an officially recognized example of 40K canon, it's an abomination.
While not produced by GW proper, it was produced at a time where 3rd party involvement was more heavily encouraged, and as such, I'd say was endorsed by GW. So, by that logic, the IP has been long cheapened.
What you call an abomination, other people would call classic 40k humour. So, let's not act like one opinion is more superior to another.
40K is more than one single thing, but I will continue to act like my preferences are the great part of the game because IMO they are. You may have different preferences and I can't change that, but I strongly believe that my vision of 40K is the strongest vision of it, and straying into a newer high tech version of it is a mistake.
You're more than welcome to your different preferences, but you have absolutely no right or authority to claim that your version is "superior" or "correct" or "true", because that's simply not something you can prove. 40k means different things to everyone, and trying to appeal to some kind of sense of "this is what REAL 40k is" is only going to alienate people.
Insectum7 wrote:For the record, not official canon. So Smudge's post is innacurate.
It's a hilariously fun pic though.
Not official GW product, but endorsed by them.
I mean, if we're talking goofy stuff, we have the half-Eldar Librarian of the Ultramarines, or Sherlock Obiwan Closseau.
My point is, 40k is more than what Brutus describes. Not to say that their interpretation of the setting is wrong, but that it's not the only one.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/04/23 09:28:02
I think this is the crux of the issue too. It would be cool from a modelers perspective because the primaris proportions look so much better. However, I'm quite fond of the new kits.
What I would like to see is some sort of super mixable possessed primaris unit. Imagine hulking chaos beasts with the arms of Aggressors and other bits from infiltrators, or something like that.
I'd dig frankenprimastodes .
I'd also dig Stolen equipment options for champions though
I don't see how adding a wound to chosen and cult troops would cause any issues as long as they were properly priced.
As for stolen equipment for champions, I could see hellblasters as a champion equipment option....
Not going to tackle the rest, as I've done so in previous threads, but:
jeff white wrote: No difference? Not one damn bit? Argh... pretend that extended ranges and plasma without risk in flying tanks and ridic jump troops with assault cannons do not make a difference. Try that.
Extended range - Not every Primaris Marine has extended range on their weapons. Bolt carbines (aka, weapons that are the same size as bolters) have the same range as bolters. Auto bolt rifles have the same range as bolters. Bolt pistols carried by Primaris Marines are still the same as bolt pistols on other Marines. You're more likely to have a difference in range from your choice in Chapter Tactic than you are from if you took Primaris or not.
Plasma without risk - Ugh, I've told you this before: EVERY faction has that now! That's not exclusive to Primaris, that's every faction in the game, from Cadians to Chaos. That's just how ALL plasma works now, not Primaris! If Primaris had been around in 7th, plasma incinerators would have had Gets Hot, just like every other plasma weapon at the time.
Flying tanks - Custodes have flying tanks. AdMech have flying tanks. Sisters have a flying pulpit! Space Marines have always had a flying contingent in the form of Land Speeders. A flying tank isn't exactly a million miles away. After all, how about this hover tank built for these Space Marines?
Spoiler:
Jump troops with assault cannons - what? Either you mean Inceptors or Suppressors, neither of which have assault cannons. But, if you're talking about Inceptors, have you considered this piece of artwork which has Space Marines actually firing what look like mini chainguns in each hand? And one in the background actually carrying a two handed gun of some kind?
Spoiler:
All I'm saying is that, if you're going to point out things that Primaris do that's new and different, at least pick things that are actually true.
Personally speaking, yes, sort of, in a way. I've played CSM in every edition starting with RT. The abomination of a book that was the 6thed codex made the actual Marines pointless in a competitive sense. In fact, it made them worse in just about every possible way. You got punished for using them. 7th ed wasn't much better, and while they aren't nearly as terrible in 8th, they are still (imo) running away with the title of "Worst PA unit". So I would love to get some Primaris style rules to see my CSM get some table time in my more competitive lists. What I don't want is a new model line for them, or a shoe-horned explanation. I like the Loyalist Primaris a lot. I hate the fluff that came with them and feel like it was largely poorly handled.
I'm thinking they could eve say something like "Going forward, the current CSM stat line will be used for any units you wish to treat as recent renegades. This new stat line will be used for any units you wish to represent true veterans of the long war. Due to so much time in the warp, they are bigger, with more wounds, and better leadership to represent their experience" etc. Then, to make the renegade stats more appealing, you could give them access to one or two vehicles that are traditionally loyalist, while the Vets get better rules and stats for their troops. Something like that might be cool. I feel like the new CSM models are big enough that we probably don't need a brand new model line like the Primaris got. Just need a buff to the marines themselves.
Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug
Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..."
Not going to tackle the rest, as I've done so in previous threads, but:
jeff white wrote: No difference? Not one damn bit? Argh... pretend that extended ranges and plasma without risk in flying tanks and ridic jump troops with assault cannons do not make a difference. Try that.
Extended range - Not every Primaris Marine has extended range on their weapons. Bolt carbines (aka, weapons that are the same size as bolters) have the same range as bolters. Auto bolt rifles have the same range as bolters. Bolt pistols carried by Primaris Marines are still the same as bolt pistols on other Marines. You're more likely to have a difference in range from your choice in Chapter Tactic than you are from if you took Primaris or not.
Plasma without risk - Ugh, I've told you this before: EVERY faction has that now! That's not exclusive to Primaris, that's every faction in the game, from Cadians to Chaos. That's just how ALL plasma works now, not Primaris! If Primaris had been around in 7th, plasma incinerators would have had Gets Hot, just like every other plasma weapon at the time.
Flying tanks - Custodes have flying tanks. AdMech have flying tanks. Sisters have a flying pulpit! Space Marines have always had a flying contingent in the form of Land Speeders. A flying tank isn't exactly a million miles away. After all, how about this hover tank built for these Space Marines? [spoiler]
Jump troops with assault cannons - what? Either you mean Inceptors or Suppressors, neither of which have assault cannons. But, if you're talking about Inceptors, have you considered this piece of artwork which has Space Marines actually firing what look like mini chainguns in each hand? And one in the background actually carrying a two handed gun of some kind?
Spoiler:
All I'm saying is that, if you're going to point out things that Primaris do that's new and different, at least pick things that are actually true.[/spoiler]
Your continued lack (or refusal) of understanding about proportionality in regards to aesthetics is astonishing.
By your logic:
GW once published a model Space Marine on a dogsled.
Therefore, if GW published an entire army of Space Marines on dogsleds, A+ from you.
Something happening once does not mean that it becoming a trend is somehow not different. Basic statistics here. Outlier =/= trend.
p5freak wrote: Im pretty sure chaos will get some super soldiers like primaris with agents of bile.
They'll cost 18ppm, and they'll have the stats of a normal marine plus "ChAoTiC mUtAtIoN" special rule
Roll a D3:
1 - unit suffers 1 mortal wound
2 - unit gains +1A for the turn
3 - Unit gains +1W for the turn
It'll be great.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Insectum7 wrote:By your logic: GW once published a model Space Marine on a dogsled. Therefore, if GW published an entire army of Space Marines on dogsleds, A+ from you.
Something happening once does not mean that it becoming a trend is somehow not different. Basic statistics here. Outlier =/= trend.
It's more like, if GW made a Space Marine on a dogsled, and then they make others Marines on a dogsled, claiming that having dogsleds "isn't a Marine thing" or "isn't part of their aesthetic" is wholly inaccurate. It's not very fair to complain that "dogsleds don't belong to Space Marines" when they've historically had them.
But, we've had this discussion before. It doesn't need to be repeated.
As for the actual topic - I don't think Chaos need Primaris VOTLW. Primaris Marine Traitors from the new foundings? Absolutely plausible.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/23 19:43:55
