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This faq changes a point cost or two, that update changes a couple, the newest codex changes some.

Before I go on a crusade (Holy or black) looking for one can I ask if there is an updated online list of the latest points cost changes anywhere?

Thanks.

This also (no easy access to points, or rules) makes this game feel collectable as your never sure you have all the stuff up to date,.

The majority of points adjustments are found in the current Chapter Approved compilation.

CA19+the errata for it covers most. Only things after that you need are PA books for the new costs(shadowsun, ghaz, ragnar etc) though you need those for more than just points anyway. There's also issue of geminia point costs for sisters. Did the point costs go codex->ca->codex and every sister player who got codex on november is also expected to buy january codex with just different codex or not.

Yeah, it's a mess. Right now it's CA19 for all the points costs except for books published after CA19 but also maybe not when it comes to Sisters and Mek with KFF.

Gotta catch all the rules to play!

So GW won't maintain a cost list because they want you to constantly buy new hardback color books that'll be outdated in a year or two.

 Matt Swain wrote:
So GW won't maintain a cost list because they want you to constantly buy new hardback color books that'll be outdated in a year or two.

Yup. This is the same company that wont put full loadouts in boxs forcing you to buy multiple boxs for ONE squad just to outfit them and be WYSWYG compliance. Books sell. Rules sell even more. And to top it off we are coming to a edition change so the well is going to be bled dry.

 Matt Swain wrote:
So GW won't maintain a cost list because they want you to constantly buy new hardback color books that'll be outdated in a year or two.

1. They're softback books, not hardcover.

2. Only the Munitorum Field Manual book will be outdated. The Chapter Approved book will continue to have value with new rules, missions, etc.

BattleScribe is your most reliable free source of points updates.

-removed by insaniak-

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yeah, it's a mess. Right now it's CA19 for all the points costs except for books published after CA19 but also maybe not when it comes to Sisters and Mek with KFF.

KFF mek is in CA2019.

 Jidmah wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yeah, it's a mess. Right now it's CA19 for all the points costs except for books published after CA19 but also maybe not when it comes to Sisters and Mek with KFF.

KFF mek is in CA2019.

And it's also in Saga of the Beast, but the Mek in Saga of the Beast is "Including Wargear" for 55pts and the one in CA is "Excluding Wargear" for 55 points, so which one is true? Is it CA, because it's CA, or is it SotB because it was released after CA? If you're gonna try and "gotcha!" at least try to do it right.

 Matt Swain wrote:
So GW won't maintain a cost list because they want you to constantly buy new hardback color books that'll be outdated in a year or two.

Outdated books for the outdated method throne!

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yeah, it's a mess. Right now it's CA19 for all the points costs except for books published after CA19 but also maybe not when it comes to Sisters and Mek with KFF.

KFF mek is in CA2019.

And it's also in Saga of the Beast, but the Mek in Saga of the Beast is "Including Wargear" for 55pts and the one in CA is "Excluding Wargear" for 55 points, so which one is true? Is it CA, because it's CA, or is it SotB because it was released after CA? If you're gonna try and "gotcha!" at least try to do it right.

"If you're gonna try and "gotcha!" at least try to do it right."
Please remind me how much the wargear on the "Big Mek with Kustom Force Field" costs?

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yeah, it's a mess. Right now it's CA19 for all the points costs except for books published after CA19 but also maybe not when it comes to Sisters and Mek with KFF.

KFF mek is in CA2019.

And it's also in Saga of the Beast, but the Mek in Saga of the Beast is "Including Wargear" for 55pts and the one in CA is "Excluding Wargear" for 55 points, so which one is true? Is it CA, because it's CA, or is it SotB because it was released after CA? If you're gonna try and "gotcha!" at least try to do it right.

CA2019 "The points values listed in this book replace any published previously..."

Saga of the Beast "Note that these datasheets, their wargear and their points values update those found in the 2018 edition of Codex: Orks, and should be used in your games of Warhammer 40,000." What it should have said is that it updated costs found in CA2019 and KFF should follow the normal rules for KFF and cost pts as usual.

I could come up with rationalisations for both being correct, I'd lean towards letting my opponents getting away with the steal that is SotB Mek, but I wouldn't use it myself. The fact that choppa, forcefield and slugga are not listed in the pts section of SotB makes it pretty clear that those pts are irrelevant for the costs that model, which fits with the wargear being pre-paid.

Saga of the Beast technically only updates the codex and the codex is technically irrelevant since it is replaced by CA2019, so RAW SotB costs are irrelevant, which means Thraka's cost is in CA2019... I'm sure a lot of people would love that more than they would hate to pay a fair price for their KFF. If anyone pulls a 235 pt Thraka on me I'll have to pull out my nigh-invulnerable Wraiths.

 Jidmah wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Yeah, it's a mess. Right now it's CA19 for all the points costs except for books published after CA19 but also maybe not when it comes to Sisters and Mek with KFF.

KFF mek is in CA2019.

And it's also in Saga of the Beast, but the Mek in Saga of the Beast is "Including Wargear" for 55pts and the one in CA is "Excluding Wargear" for 55 points, so which one is true? Is it CA, because it's CA, or is it SotB because it was released after CA? If you're gonna try and "gotcha!" at least try to do it right.

"If you're gonna try and "gotcha!" at least try to do it right."
Please remind me how much the wargear on the "Big Mek with Kustom Force Field" costs?

In CA, it's 20 points. In Saga of the Beat, it doesn't matter it could be 3000 points, the Mek is still 55 points because the Mek is 55 points "including wargear". There is no points cost for the Kustom Force Field in Saga of the Beast, so it defaults to 20 points from CA, but the mek doesn't pay that cost because the SotB version is 55 points "including wargear".

So, which is it? Is the Mek 55+20 or is it 55?

And as vict0988 says, if it's the former, then well, Ghaz is super broken. If it's the latter, the Mek with KFF somehow gets a free KFF.

 vict0988 wrote:
I could come up with rationalisations for both being correct, I'd lean towards letting my opponents getting away with the steal that is SotB Mek, but I wouldn't use it myself. The fact that choppa, forcefield and slugga are not listed in the pts section of SotB makes it pretty clear that those pts are irrelevant for the costs that model, which fits with the wargear being pre-paid.

Saga of the Beast technically only updates the codex and the codex is technically irrelevant since it is replaced by CA2019, so RAW SotB costs are irrelevant, which means Thraka's cost is in CA2019... I'm sure a lot of people would love that more than they would hate to pay a fair price for their KFF. If anyone pulls a 235 pt Thraka on me I'll have to pull out my nigh-invulnerable Wraiths.

It doesn't really matter though. The KFF Mek from saga of the beast does not have the KFF wargear item listed, and therefore doesn't need to pay for it. Whether wargear is included or not doesn't matter, either way the datasheet costs 55 points.

Which is why BCB making as ass out of himself for telling me "to do it right" is extremely funny


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
In CA, it's 20 points. In Saga of the Beat, it doesn't matter it could be 3000 points, the Mek is still 55 points because the Mek is 55 points "including wargear". There is no points cost for the Kustom Force Field in Saga of the Beast, so it defaults to 20 points from CA, but the mek doesn't pay that cost because the SotB version is 55 points "including wargear".

So, which is it? Is the Mek 55+20 or is it 55?

And as vict0988 says, if it's the former, then well, Ghaz is super broken. If it's the latter, the Mek with KFF somehow gets a free KFF.

Wrong. There is no KFF wargear in SotB. If you're gonna try and "gotcha!" at least try to do it right.

I very distinctly remember an old FAQ saying you had to pay for abilities on the datasheet granted by wargear even if you didn't have the wargear, but it is possible I am misremembering. It was something to do with Index Crusaders.

If I am misremembering, I concede the point.

Ahha, Found it:

FAQs
SPACE MARINES
Q: Is the cost of the combat shield included in the Company
Champion and Company Champion on Bike’s points?
A: No. This (and all similar ‘other wargear’ found in the
points values section must be paid for in the same way as
a model’s weapons.

While possibly not relevant anymore, this isn't the first time GW have put generic FAQ answers under a single factions FaQ (See also Death Guard FAQ about stratagems).

That obviously cannot be the case, as the KFF wargear is an optional upgrade for almost all datasheets it appears on.

RAW, the Kustom Force Field rule in SotB, unlike all other KFF rules, does not require the piece of wargear to work. It's a rule completely unrelated to the wargear that just happens to share the same name.
RAW there is no way for a "Big Mek with Kustom Force Field" to actually get the piece of wargear.

Why? The Kustom Force Field has a points cost, and per the FAQ you have to pay for it if your points cost is not "including wargear".

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Why? The Kustom Force Field has a points cost, and per the FAQ you have to pay for it if your points cost is not "including wargear".

First of all, that's not what the FAQ says. Note how the wargear list for both Company Champion and Company Champion on Bike say "It has a combat shield.", so the FAQ is just stating the obvious: that you have to pay for wargear you are equipped with unless stated otherwise.
Also note how the rule for combat shield reads "Combat Shield: A model with a combat shield has a 5+ invulnerable save", so in case you had the option to not buy a combat shield (like the Sergeant in an Assault Squad), the rule would not have any effect without the proper equipment.

The "Big Mek with Kustom Force Field" does not have a Kustom Force Field wargear item on its wargear list. It also grants no permission to add a Kustom Force Field wargear item through wargear options.
The Kustom Force Field wargear item is not used in any way for the SotB datasheet.

The datasheet in Saga of the Beast has an ability named Kustom Force Field that is worded in such a way that it does not check for a Kustom Force Field wargear item:

Saga of the Beast wrote:Kustom Force Field: Friendly <CLAN> units have a 5+ invulnerable save whilst they are wholly within 9" of this model.

All datasheets with an ability named Kustom Force Field in Codex: Orks explicitly check if the wargear is equipped and their wordings match the wording of the Kustom Force Field wargear item on pg. 121:

Codex: Orks wrote:Kustom Force Field: If this model is equipped with a kustom force field, friendly ORK units have a 5+ invulnerable save against attacks made with ranged weapons while they are wholly within 9" of it. While a model equipped with a kustom force field is embarked, the vehicle transporting it has a 5+ invulnerable save against attacks made with ranged weapons instead.

If a Big Mek with Kustom Force Field would be equipped with a Kustom Force Field wargear item (which RAW is not allowed) it would provide him with a second aura - in addition to the clan-locked, working in combat KFF. he would get a second one that is not clan-locked, does not work in melee and works for transports he is embarked on.

Color added for clarity, not to annoy anyone.

TL;DR: You do not need to pay for wargear you cannot be equipped with. The whole thing is dumb, but RAW is clear.

I think I agree with Jidmah. But since there are two abilities with the same name, could you not also agree that there are two pieces of wargear with the same name and different abilities? Stuff like the Gauss Pylon's Teleportation Matrix isn't listed in the wargear section, but there's a cost for Teleportation Matrix at the back of the book, so you have to pay. What determines whether an ability comes from a piece of wargear or not? Is it not just that there is a piece of wargear with the same name as the ability in question in the pts section?

It's just a hugely bad idea to have two abilities with the same name, what the hell were they thinking? Also, failing to list wargear in the wargear description and then expecting people to pay for it because they have the relevant rule in the abilities section is super silly, Phase Shift Generator should be listed in the wargear section of Gauss Pylons for example. It's probably going to get FAQd, it working in melee alone should warrant FAQ to make it into the standard wording, then change the cost (with wargear) in CA2019 and SotB to be the same (preferrably 75).

 Jidmah wrote:
[q
If a Big Mek with Kustom Force Field would be equipped with a Kustom Force Field wargear item (which RAW is not allowed) it would provide him with a second aura - in addition to the clan-locked, working in combat KFF. he would get a second one that is not clan-locked, does not work in melee and works for transports he is embarked on.

Color added for clarity, not to annoy anyone.

TL;DR: You do not need to pay for wargear you cannot be equipped with. The whole thing is dumb, but RAW is clear.

And besides point costs for mek is specifically sayd "including wargear".

The entry is illogical mess needing FAQ. Then again wouldn't surprise at all for GW to decide to have 2 things same name different functionality. Bespoke rules ftw

Well, at least it's functional, we've had worse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vict0988 wrote:
I think I agree with Jidmah. But since there are two abilities with the same name, could you not also agree that there are two pieces of wargear with the same name and different abilities? Stuff like the Gauss Pylon's Teleportation Matrix isn't listed in the wargear section, but there's a cost for Teleportation Matrix at the back of the book, so you have to pay. What determines whether an ability comes from a piece of wargear or not? Is it not just that there is a piece of wargear with the same name as the ability in question in the pts section?

FW is a completely different mess, there even is a counter-example to the pylon. Mekboss Buzzgob actually does have the KFF rule (the one from the codex), but no means to take the KFF and therefore simply doesn't gain anything from the ability.

It's just a hugely bad idea to have two abilities with the same name, what the hell were they thinking?

I doubt this was an intentional change, but more likely a lack of effort/caring.

It's probably going to get FAQd, it working in melee alone should warrant FAQ to make it into the standard wording, then change the cost (with wargear) in CA2019 and SotB to be the same (preferrably 75).

I already sent all these questions to their FAQ e-mail and would ask for all people involved here to do the same. The more noise we make, the more likely we are to get an answer.

tneva82 wrote:
Both have mistakes. BS is good supporting app but you still need actual rules. Just print out from BS is not good source especially as you an alter it at will. If you disagree feel free to play vs my IG troops with assault 3 S4 -2 lasguns You don't belive? Here's BS print out! don't have codex though to show. But BS print out is good enough right?

It's also trivially easy for me to edit the bare-bones layout of an FAQ document to insert fictitious corrections, but my opponents don't seem to mind me bringing a printout of the FAQs. You can always check the source (Battlescribe's data repository / online FAQ) to verify. Of course, if someone would openly admit to falsifying reference documents for their own advantage, then I certainly wouldn't play against them anyways.

More to the point, even if you cannot tolerate the use of Battlescribe as a reference point for rules, it does contain accurate points values, which is what OP was asking about.

OP, I'll stand by my recommendation: Battlescribe isn't perfect, but there are mechanisms to report issues, and I have come to find that it is more reliable than I am when left to sift through the mess of superseding documents on my own. YMMV.

Battlescribe does not replace your need for rulebooks.

It is, however, a very useful tool, given GW's incessant stream of point fixes.

I will submit from Codex Craftworld FAQ:

Page 84 – Autarch
Change the unit description to read:
‘An Autarch is a single model armed with a star glaive and plasma grenades. They are equipped with a Forceshield.’

This Errata was done because the Autarch in the Codex has the Forceshield rule, but doesn't have a the Forceshield wargear. People asked, "do I have to pay for the Forceshield since isn't on my wargear list?" This was GW's answer.

So, until they errata SotB to both include the KFF as wargear and not have the Mek with KFF be "wargear included", the model is 55 points.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
In Saga of the Beat, it doesn't matter it could be 3000 points, the Mek is still 55 points because the Mek is 55 points "including wargear".

Saga of the Beat not bringing back the Goff Rokkers as a unit was definitely a missed opportunity.

 Jidmah wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:
I think I agree with Jidmah. But since there are two abilities with the same name, could you not also agree that there are two pieces of wargear with the same name and different abilities? Stuff like the Gauss Pylon's Teleportation Matrix isn't listed in the wargear section, but there's a cost for Teleportation Matrix at the back of the book, so you have to pay. What determines whether an ability comes from a piece of wargear or not? Is it not just that there is a piece of wargear with the same name as the ability in question in the pts section?

FW is a completely different mess, there even is a counter-example to the pylon. Mekboss Buzzgob actually does have the KFF rule (the one from the codex), but no means to take the KFF and therefore simply doesn't gain anything from the ability.

What? What do you mean he doesn't have a means of taking a KFF? If he has the KFF ability then he is automatically equipped with the KFF even if it isn't listed as having it, same thing with Craftworld Flyers (confirmed in FAQ) and Gauss Pylons.

Buzzgob being 75 including the KFF probably means that 55 is intentional for including the KFF, I find it to be insane for a faction where all the Troops have a 6+ Sv.