Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2020/05/07 20:43:18
Subject: It's a bit strange that the Emperor's Children never changed their name even after turning traitor.
Consider that the Black Legion changed their name twice (Luna Wolves, to Sons of Horus, to Black Legion). Meanwhile, the Emperor's Children have been at war with the Imperium for 10,000 years and still have a name that honors the Emperor.
As an aside: why did Fulgrim name his legion after the Emperor in the first place? Did this reflect some sort of sycophantic devotion? Or on the contrary, was he so vain as to believe that his men (and only his men) were fit to call themselves the Emperor's blood-kin? I'm not too familiar with Heresy-era lore.
.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/07 20:49:07
Fulgrim didn’t name them, the name was bestowed on them as an honour.
Also the only traitor legion to change its name post heresy is the black legion ( IIRC a sign of mourning over the death of Horus). They were renamed the Sons of Horus from the Luna wolves before they rebelled.
The other 8 traitor legions have the same name now as they did before they rebelled.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/05/07 22:33:52
2020/05/07 21:09:06
Subject: It's a bit strange that the Emperor's Children never changed their name even after turning traitor.
Right, but that name was bestowed upon them by the Emperor and they were given the honour of the first legion to have the palatine aquila emblazoned on their chests. So frankly, having a legion so honoured by the Emperor turning traitor and keeping the name to spite the Emperor's grandeur/favour is something they definitely do deliberately.
2020/05/07 23:18:09
Subject: It's a bit strange that the Emperor's Children never changed their name even after turning traitor.
Reminds me of this, from the early days of the interwebs:
"My Lord, I bring news."
Typhus Marburg paused in his study of the situation map of the dreary little planet his forces were engaged in ravaging. "Yes?"
"Lord. Starships have appeared in the outer system and are on course for a landing. They have been identified as elements of the Flesh Tearers."
"Yeah? Tell them to sod off and find their own world. Tell 'em we got here first."
"Sire, you misunderstand. They are here to defend this world!"
"What! Why? It's a sorry state of affairs when the followers of Chaos start to defend the weakling Imperium from each other!"
"Um, Lord... the Flesh Tearers are a loyalist chapter."
"They are? With a name like that! Are you sure they're not one of ours?"
"Positive, My Lord."
"Have you been able to call for any assistance?"
"The Astropaths have contacted other forces nearby. Unfortunately this has also alerted other loyalist forces in the sector and they are also headed our way."
"Bugger. So who gets here first then?"
"The Alpha Legion, sire."
"It never rains, it only pours, hey?"
"Umm..."
"What!"
"The Alpha Legion is one of ours."
"It is?!"
"Yes."
"I'm confused. You're telling me that a mob called the 'Flesh Tearers' isn't one of ours but a mob called the - what was it again..."
"The Alpha Legion, sire."
"Right... a mob called the Alpha Legion is one of ours."
"That is correct, sire."
"So who else is showing up to this barney then?"
"The Blood Drinkers."
"One of ours?"
"One of theirs."
"OK."
"The Iron Warriors."
"One of theirs?"
"No. One of ours."
"Go figure."
"The Dark Angels."
"Now I've heard of them. Followers of Slaanesh aren't they?"
"No, I think you're thinking of The Fallen, sire. The Dark Angels are Loyalists too."
"Bugger. So who else then?"
"The Emperor's Children."
"Oh, that one's too easy. They're obviously loyalists with a name like that."
"Um, not exactly my Lord."
"Really?"
"Yes, Lord. They're one of ours too."
"This is silly. All the really evil sounding names are being used by weakling loyalists while it seems as though the forces of chaos have got the naff monikers. Are there any more of these I should know about?"
"A few, Lord."
"OK then, spell it out for me, starting with Loyalists that sound like traitors and then moving onto traitors that sound like Loyalists."
"I will attempt to do so, Lord. OK - the Loyalists that sound like traitors... the Marauders, Rampagers, Destroyers and Storm Lords (all White Scar second foundings in point of fact)."
"I like the sound of the Storm Lords. You sure they aren't one of ours?"
"Quite sure. Then there's the Blood Drinkers and the Flesh Tearers - both of which are Loyalist second founding of the Blood Angels."
"With names like that I'd always assumed they were more bone headed followers of the blood god."
"Not so far, My Lord. Then there's the Red Talons..."
"I thought they were renegade pirates."
"No Lord, that's the Red Corsairs."
"Oh. OK. Continue."
"The Brazen Claws are loyalists too."
"Good name for a Khornate force though isn't it?"
"Yes Lord. Then there's the Black Guard (not to be confused with the Black Legion which IS one of ours), the Revilers, and the Raptors."
"Hold on a minute! The Raptors? They're definitely ours. Hell we've got a small unit of them attached to our forces haven't we?"
"My Lord, those are the troops known as Raptors but there is also a loyalist legion with the same name."
"Must get a bit confusing for the loyalists then?"
"I imagine so, My Lord. There are also the Doom Eagles, the Silver Skulls, and the Iron Hands (not to be mistaken for the Iron Warriors, who are ours)."
"Bloody hell. Is that it?"
"There are also some lesser known chapters that also seem to cause occasional confusion."
"Such as..."
"The Doomfarers are one that our forces have occasionally encountered."
"Oh yeah. Those yoyos. So what about the Chaos forces that sound like loyalists then..."
"Well as mentioned earlier there are The Emperor's Children, The Iron
Warriors, the Thousand Sons, the Lunar Wolves (who changed their name to the Sons of Horus and then to the Black Legion)..."
"Well at least they're easily IDed as one of ours now. The Black Legion eh? Now that's a proper name. Just positively oozes evil from every pore."
"Yes, Lord. To continue, there are also the Word Bearers, and the Alpha Legion."
"The Word Bearers? What kind of silly name is that for a Chaos Legion?"
"They used to be missionaries sire"
"We you'd think that once they switched to our side they'd change their name to something a little more in keeping with being evil mad men. I mean come on 'The Word Bearers'? It's a silly name."
"Yes my Lord"
"You know, I think the forces of Chaos should have proper Chaos names. There's no room for mistakes when you're called something like 'The World Eaters' or 'The Death Guard'..."
"Actually Lord, both those chapters had those names when they were loyalists."
"You're kidding."
"No, My Lord."
"Yeesh. I would have thought names like that would be a bit scary for the average imperial citizen. I mean "Yay we're being rescued by the World Eaters" just doesn't sound credible while "Aargh! Flee! It's the World Eaters" seems much more likely."
"Yes, My Lord. I believe the latter is more likely these days anyway."
"Makes no bloody sense at all."
"Yes, My Lord."
"Kill 'em all and let the Chaos Gods sort 'em out I say."
"Sounds like a completely reasonable approach to me, My Lord."
2020/05/07 23:30:40
Subject: Re:It's a bit strange that the Emperor's Children never changed their name even after turning traitor.
I think that having the chapter retain its old name is cool, especially one that revels so much in the debauchery and witchcraft that the Emperor had originally wanted to put an end to. Their very existence is a metaphor for the Emperor's many failings.
2020/05/08 01:45:19
Subject: It's a bit strange that the Emperor's Children never changed their name even after turning traitor.
Its mocking, they're an embarrassment to the Imperium. EC are like those cringy 80s pre-edgelord rebellious MTV hair band music video kids trying to piss off their step dads by fighting for their right to party.
My favorite slight, seconded by Alpha Legion still using "For the Emperor!" as their battlecry.
2020/05/08 17:48:26
Subject: It's a bit strange that the Emperor's Children never changed their name even after turning traitor.
Nightlord1987 wrote: Its mocking, they're an embarrassment to the Imperium. EC are like those cringy 80s pre-edgelord rebellious MTV hair band music video kids trying to piss off their step dads by fighting for their right to party.
My favorite slight, seconded by Alpha Legion still using "For the Emperor!" as their battlecry.
EC still use "Children of The Emperor, death to his foes!" too.
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
2020/05/08 20:08:52
Subject: It's a bit strange that the Emperor's Children never changed their name even after turning traitor.
-Guardsman- wrote: Consider that the Black Legion changed their name twice (Luna Wolves, to Sons of Horus, to Black Legion).
From what I understand, technically (the best kind of correct) the Black Legion has never changed it's name.
The Luna Wolves were renamed the Sons of Horus, but after their defeat and shameful retreat from Terra, a totally new entity (The Black Legion) emerged, which repudiated any links to the Warmaster, and was open to any Astartes who would join.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/08 20:09:50
VAIROSEAN LIVES!
2020/05/08 20:12:27
Subject: It's a bit strange that the Emperor's Children never changed their name even after turning traitor.
-Guardsman- wrote: Consider that the Black Legion changed their name twice (Luna Wolves, to Sons of Horus, to Black Legion).
From what I understand, technically (the best kind of correct) the Black Legion has never changed it's name.
The Luna Wolves were renamed the Sons of Horus, but after their defeat and shameful retreat from Terra, a totally new entity (The Black Legion) emerged, which repudiated any links to the Warmaster, and was open to any Astartes who would join.
Probably for the best because IIRC the Sons of Horus were fairly hated by everyone in the Traitor forces after Terra.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
2020/05/08 22:22:57
Subject: Re:It's a bit strange that the Emperor's Children never changed their name even after turning traitor.
If I remember correctly the name change to Black Legion is symbolic of Abaddon completely taking over the legion.
And as other have said the reason the EC keep the name is to mock the Imperium
2020/05/09 03:29:59
Subject: Re:It's a bit strange that the Emperor's Children never changed their name even after turning traitor.
insaniak wrote: Reminds me of this, from the early days of the interwebs:
Spoiler:
"My Lord, I bring news."
Typhus Marburg paused in his study of the situation map of the dreary little planet his forces were engaged in ravaging. "Yes?"
"Lord. Starships have appeared in the outer system and are on course for a landing. They have been identified as elements of the Flesh Tearers."
"Yeah? Tell them to sod off and find their own world. Tell 'em we got here first."
"Sire, you misunderstand. They are here to defend this world!"
"What! Why? It's a sorry state of affairs when the followers of Chaos start to defend the weakling Imperium from each other!"
"Um, Lord... the Flesh Tearers are a loyalist chapter."
"They are? With a name like that! Are you sure they're not one of ours?"
"Positive, My Lord."
"Have you been able to call for any assistance?"
"The Astropaths have contacted other forces nearby. Unfortunately this has also alerted other loyalist forces in the sector and they are also headed our way."
"Bugger. So who gets here first then?"
"The Alpha Legion, sire."
"It never rains, it only pours, hey?"
"Umm..."
"What!"
"The Alpha Legion is one of ours."
"It is?!"
"Yes."
"I'm confused. You're telling me that a mob called the 'Flesh Tearers' isn't one of ours but a mob called the - what was it again..."
"The Alpha Legion, sire."
"Right... a mob called the Alpha Legion is one of ours."
"That is correct, sire."
"So who else is showing up to this barney then?"
"The Blood Drinkers."
"One of ours?"
"One of theirs."
"OK."
"The Iron Warriors."
"One of theirs?"
"No. One of ours."
"Go figure."
"The Dark Angels."
"Now I've heard of them. Followers of Slaanesh aren't they?"
"No, I think you're thinking of The Fallen, sire. The Dark Angels are Loyalists too."
"Bugger. So who else then?"
"The Emperor's Children."
"Oh, that one's too easy. They're obviously loyalists with a name like that."
"Um, not exactly my Lord."
"Really?"
"Yes, Lord. They're one of ours too."
"This is silly. All the really evil sounding names are being used by weakling loyalists while it seems as though the forces of chaos have got the naff monikers. Are there any more of these I should know about?"
"A few, Lord."
"OK then, spell it out for me, starting with Loyalists that sound like traitors and then moving onto traitors that sound like Loyalists."
"I will attempt to do so, Lord. OK - the Loyalists that sound like traitors... the Marauders, Rampagers, Destroyers and Storm Lords (all White Scar second foundings in point of fact)."
"I like the sound of the Storm Lords. You sure they aren't one of ours?"
"Quite sure. Then there's the Blood Drinkers and the Flesh Tearers - both of which are Loyalist second founding of the Blood Angels."
"With names like that I'd always assumed they were more bone headed followers of the blood god."
"Not so far, My Lord. Then there's the Red Talons..."
"I thought they were renegade pirates."
"No Lord, that's the Red Corsairs."
"Oh. OK. Continue."
"The Brazen Claws are loyalists too."
"Good name for a Khornate force though isn't it?"
"Yes Lord. Then there's the Black Guard (not to be confused with the Black Legion which IS one of ours), the Revilers, and the Raptors."
"Hold on a minute! The Raptors? They're definitely ours. Hell we've got a small unit of them attached to our forces haven't we?"
"My Lord, those are the troops known as Raptors but there is also a loyalist legion with the same name."
"Must get a bit confusing for the loyalists then?"
"I imagine so, My Lord. There are also the Doom Eagles, the Silver Skulls, and the Iron Hands (not to be mistaken for the Iron Warriors, who are ours)."
"Bloody hell. Is that it?"
"There are also some lesser known chapters that also seem to cause occasional confusion."
"Such as..."
"The Doomfarers are one that our forces have occasionally encountered."
"Oh yeah. Those yoyos. So what about the Chaos forces that sound like loyalists then..."
"Well as mentioned earlier there are The Emperor's Children, The Iron
Warriors, the Thousand Sons, the Lunar Wolves (who changed their name to the Sons of Horus and then to the Black Legion)..."
"Well at least they're easily IDed as one of ours now. The Black Legion eh? Now that's a proper name. Just positively oozes evil from every pore."
"Yes, Lord. To continue, there are also the Word Bearers, and the Alpha Legion."
"The Word Bearers? What kind of silly name is that for a Chaos Legion?"
"They used to be missionaries sire"
"We you'd think that once they switched to our side they'd change their name to something a little more in keeping with being evil mad men. I mean come on 'The Word Bearers'? It's a silly name."
"Yes my Lord"
"You know, I think the forces of Chaos should have proper Chaos names. There's no room for mistakes when you're called something like 'The World Eaters' or 'The Death Guard'..."
"Actually Lord, both those chapters had those names when they were loyalists."
"You're kidding."
"No, My Lord."
"Yeesh. I would have thought names like that would be a bit scary for the average imperial citizen. I mean "Yay we're being rescued by the World Eaters" just doesn't sound credible while "Aargh! Flee! It's the World Eaters" seems much more likely."
"Yes, My Lord. I believe the latter is more likely these days anyway."
"Makes no bloody sense at all."
"Yes, My Lord."
"Kill 'em all and let the Chaos Gods sort 'em out I say."
"Sounds like a completely reasonable approach to me, My Lord."
Thanks for that! Made me laugh. Lore was painted into a corner by early decisions, and it's a miracle that they salvaged something out of it!
All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand
2020/05/10 03:52:25
Subject: It's a bit strange that the Emperor's Children never changed their name even after turning traitor.
I wonder if keeping the name is really intentional. it's not like there was an office they could submit a name change request to after the heresy, and my understanding is that the EC are pretty thoroughly split up into warbands with new names anyway.
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
2020/05/10 09:44:40
Subject: It's a bit strange that the Emperor's Children never changed their name even after turning traitor.
insaniak wrote: Reminds me of this, from the early days of the interwebs:
Spoiler:
"My Lord, I bring news."
Typhus Marburg paused in his study of the situation map of the dreary little planet his forces were engaged in ravaging. "Yes?"
"Lord. Starships have appeared in the outer system and are on course for a landing. They have been identified as elements of the Flesh Tearers."
"Yeah? Tell them to sod off and find their own world. Tell 'em we got here first."
"Sire, you misunderstand. They are here to defend this world!"
"What! Why? It's a sorry state of affairs when the followers of Chaos start to defend the weakling Imperium from each other!"
"Um, Lord... the Flesh Tearers are a loyalist chapter."
"They are? With a name like that! Are you sure they're not one of ours?"
"Positive, My Lord."
"Have you been able to call for any assistance?"
"The Astropaths have contacted other forces nearby. Unfortunately this has also alerted other loyalist forces in the sector and they are also headed our way."
"Bugger. So who gets here first then?"
"The Alpha Legion, sire."
"It never rains, it only pours, hey?"
"Umm..."
"What!"
"The Alpha Legion is one of ours."
"It is?!"
"Yes."
"I'm confused. You're telling me that a mob called the 'Flesh Tearers' isn't one of ours but a mob called the - what was it again..."
"The Alpha Legion, sire."
"Right... a mob called the Alpha Legion is one of ours."
"That is correct, sire."
"So who else is showing up to this barney then?"
"The Blood Drinkers."
"One of ours?"
"One of theirs."
"OK."
"The Iron Warriors."
"One of theirs?"
"No. One of ours."
"Go figure."
"The Dark Angels."
"Now I've heard of them. Followers of Slaanesh aren't they?"
"No, I think you're thinking of The Fallen, sire. The Dark Angels are Loyalists too."
"Bugger. So who else then?"
"The Emperor's Children."
"Oh, that one's too easy. They're obviously loyalists with a name like that."
"Um, not exactly my Lord."
"Really?"
"Yes, Lord. They're one of ours too."
"This is silly. All the really evil sounding names are being used by weakling loyalists while it seems as though the forces of chaos have got the naff monikers. Are there any more of these I should know about?"
"A few, Lord."
"OK then, spell it out for me, starting with Loyalists that sound like traitors and then moving onto traitors that sound like Loyalists."
"I will attempt to do so, Lord. OK - the Loyalists that sound like traitors... the Marauders, Rampagers, Destroyers and Storm Lords (all White Scar second foundings in point of fact)."
"I like the sound of the Storm Lords. You sure they aren't one of ours?"
"Quite sure. Then there's the Blood Drinkers and the Flesh Tearers - both of which are Loyalist second founding of the Blood Angels."
"With names like that I'd always assumed they were more bone headed followers of the blood god."
"Not so far, My Lord. Then there's the Red Talons..."
"I thought they were renegade pirates."
"No Lord, that's the Red Corsairs."
"Oh. OK. Continue."
"The Brazen Claws are loyalists too."
"Good name for a Khornate force though isn't it?"
"Yes Lord. Then there's the Black Guard (not to be confused with the Black Legion which IS one of ours), the Revilers, and the Raptors."
"Hold on a minute! The Raptors? They're definitely ours. Hell we've got a small unit of them attached to our forces haven't we?"
"My Lord, those are the troops known as Raptors but there is also a loyalist legion with the same name."
"Must get a bit confusing for the loyalists then?"
"I imagine so, My Lord. There are also the Doom Eagles, the Silver Skulls, and the Iron Hands (not to be mistaken for the Iron Warriors, who are ours)."
"Bloody hell. Is that it?"
"There are also some lesser known chapters that also seem to cause occasional confusion."
"Such as..."
"The Doomfarers are one that our forces have occasionally encountered."
"Oh yeah. Those yoyos. So what about the Chaos forces that sound like loyalists then..."
"Well as mentioned earlier there are The Emperor's Children, The Iron
Warriors, the Thousand Sons, the Lunar Wolves (who changed their name to the Sons of Horus and then to the Black Legion)..."
"Well at least they're easily IDed as one of ours now. The Black Legion eh? Now that's a proper name. Just positively oozes evil from every pore."
"Yes, Lord. To continue, there are also the Word Bearers, and the Alpha Legion."
"The Word Bearers? What kind of silly name is that for a Chaos Legion?"
"They used to be missionaries sire"
"We you'd think that once they switched to our side they'd change their name to something a little more in keeping with being evil mad men. I mean come on 'The Word Bearers'? It's a silly name."
"Yes my Lord"
"You know, I think the forces of Chaos should have proper Chaos names. There's no room for mistakes when you're called something like 'The World Eaters' or 'The Death Guard'..."
"Actually Lord, both those chapters had those names when they were loyalists."
"You're kidding."
"No, My Lord."
"Yeesh. I would have thought names like that would be a bit scary for the average imperial citizen. I mean "Yay we're being rescued by the World Eaters" just doesn't sound credible while "Aargh! Flee! It's the World Eaters" seems much more likely."
"Yes, My Lord. I believe the latter is more likely these days anyway."
"Makes no bloody sense at all."
"Yes, My Lord."
"Kill 'em all and let the Chaos Gods sort 'em out I say."
"Sounds like a completely reasonable approach to me, My Lord."
Thanks for that! Made me laugh. Lore was painted into a corner by early decisions, and it's a miracle that they salvaged something out of it!
Yup. When you consider very early space marines were basically all criminals sent to die, they were basically all what the night lords are now. I guess things changed when someone wanted to have SM on SM battles in epic 40k and the Heresy was invented.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/10 09:44:54
Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children
Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs
2020/05/10 13:04:29
Subject: It's a bit strange that the Emperor's Children never changed their name even after turning traitor.
insaniak wrote: Reminds me of this, from the early days of the interwebs:
Spoiler:
"My Lord, I bring news."
Typhus Marburg paused in his study of the situation map of the dreary little planet his forces were engaged in ravaging. "Yes?"
"Lord. Starships have appeared in the outer system and are on course for a landing. They have been identified as elements of the Flesh Tearers."
"Yeah? Tell them to sod off and find their own world. Tell 'em we got here first."
"Sire, you misunderstand. They are here to defend this world!"
"What! Why? It's a sorry state of affairs when the followers of Chaos start to defend the weakling Imperium from each other!"
"Um, Lord... the Flesh Tearers are a loyalist chapter."
"They are? With a name like that! Are you sure they're not one of ours?"
"Positive, My Lord."
"Have you been able to call for any assistance?"
"The Astropaths have contacted other forces nearby. Unfortunately this has also alerted other loyalist forces in the sector and they are also headed our way."
"Bugger. So who gets here first then?"
"The Alpha Legion, sire."
"It never rains, it only pours, hey?"
"Umm..."
"What!"
"The Alpha Legion is one of ours."
"It is?!"
"Yes."
"I'm confused. You're telling me that a mob called the 'Flesh Tearers' isn't one of ours but a mob called the - what was it again..."
"The Alpha Legion, sire."
"Right... a mob called the Alpha Legion is one of ours."
"That is correct, sire."
"So who else is showing up to this barney then?"
"The Blood Drinkers."
"One of ours?"
"One of theirs."
"OK."
"The Iron Warriors."
"One of theirs?"
"No. One of ours."
"Go figure."
"The Dark Angels."
"Now I've heard of them. Followers of Slaanesh aren't they?"
"No, I think you're thinking of The Fallen, sire. The Dark Angels are Loyalists too."
"Bugger. So who else then?"
"The Emperor's Children."
"Oh, that one's too easy. They're obviously loyalists with a name like that."
"Um, not exactly my Lord."
"Really?"
"Yes, Lord. They're one of ours too."
"This is silly. All the really evil sounding names are being used by weakling loyalists while it seems as though the forces of chaos have got the naff monikers. Are there any more of these I should know about?"
"A few, Lord."
"OK then, spell it out for me, starting with Loyalists that sound like traitors and then moving onto traitors that sound like Loyalists."
"I will attempt to do so, Lord. OK - the Loyalists that sound like traitors... the Marauders, Rampagers, Destroyers and Storm Lords (all White Scar second foundings in point of fact)."
"I like the sound of the Storm Lords. You sure they aren't one of ours?"
"Quite sure. Then there's the Blood Drinkers and the Flesh Tearers - both of which are Loyalist second founding of the Blood Angels."
"With names like that I'd always assumed they were more bone headed followers of the blood god."
"Not so far, My Lord. Then there's the Red Talons..."
"I thought they were renegade pirates."
"No Lord, that's the Red Corsairs."
"Oh. OK. Continue."
"The Brazen Claws are loyalists too."
"Good name for a Khornate force though isn't it?"
"Yes Lord. Then there's the Black Guard (not to be confused with the Black Legion which IS one of ours), the Revilers, and the Raptors."
"Hold on a minute! The Raptors? They're definitely ours. Hell we've got a small unit of them attached to our forces haven't we?"
"My Lord, those are the troops known as Raptors but there is also a loyalist legion with the same name."
"Must get a bit confusing for the loyalists then?"
"I imagine so, My Lord. There are also the Doom Eagles, the Silver Skulls, and the Iron Hands (not to be mistaken for the Iron Warriors, who are ours)."
"Bloody hell. Is that it?"
"There are also some lesser known chapters that also seem to cause occasional confusion."
"Such as..."
"The Doomfarers are one that our forces have occasionally encountered."
"Oh yeah. Those yoyos. So what about the Chaos forces that sound like loyalists then..."
"Well as mentioned earlier there are The Emperor's Children, The Iron
Warriors, the Thousand Sons, the Lunar Wolves (who changed their name to the Sons of Horus and then to the Black Legion)..."
"Well at least they're easily IDed as one of ours now. The Black Legion eh? Now that's a proper name. Just positively oozes evil from every pore."
"Yes, Lord. To continue, there are also the Word Bearers, and the Alpha Legion."
"The Word Bearers? What kind of silly name is that for a Chaos Legion?"
"They used to be missionaries sire"
"We you'd think that once they switched to our side they'd change their name to something a little more in keeping with being evil mad men. I mean come on 'The Word Bearers'? It's a silly name."
"Yes my Lord"
"You know, I think the forces of Chaos should have proper Chaos names. There's no room for mistakes when you're called something like 'The World Eaters' or 'The Death Guard'..."
"Actually Lord, both those chapters had those names when they were loyalists."
"You're kidding."
"No, My Lord."
"Yeesh. I would have thought names like that would be a bit scary for the average imperial citizen. I mean "Yay we're being rescued by the World Eaters" just doesn't sound credible while "Aargh! Flee! It's the World Eaters" seems much more likely."
"Yes, My Lord. I believe the latter is more likely these days anyway."
"Makes no bloody sense at all."
"Yes, My Lord."
"Kill 'em all and let the Chaos Gods sort 'em out I say."
"Sounds like a completely reasonable approach to me, My Lord."
Thanks for that! Made me laugh. Lore was painted into a corner by early decisions, and it's a miracle that they salvaged something out of it!
Yup. When you consider very early space marines were basically all criminals sent to die, they were basically all what the night lords are now. I guess things changed when someone wanted to have SM on SM battles in epic 40k and the Heresy was invented.
Well, at least some legions still maintain the old traditions. AVE DOMINUS NOX!!!
2023/04/05 17:19:47
Subject: It's a bit strange that the Emperor's Children never changed their name even after turning traitor.
Yup. When you consider very early space marines were basically all criminals sent to die, they were basically all what the night lords are now. I guess things changed when someone wanted to have SM on SM battles in epic 40k and the Heresy was invented.
Orginal lore for the SM chapters recruitment policies, it was pretty much what we have now... looking at the '87 Rogue Trader here on my desk
Edit: also, the Horus Heresy as marine v marine was well established by the Ultramarine Codex in 93 and it was Realms of Chaos in 88? that first introduced the Heresy
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/04/05 18:04:22
DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+ Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L) Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 Crimson Tide 59-4-0 Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2 One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners
Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children 
Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 
Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 
Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 
Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 
Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 
Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 
Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 
Crimson Tide 59-4-0 
Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 
Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 
BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 
IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 
RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0