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Tyel wrote:
Are people going to drop out due to financial difficulty?
At the extreme margins perhaps - but if you had say X to spend, you've still got X to spend - it just won't go as far. Is £2 or $3 etc a box going to be the cut off point?

I think GW loses customers with every price increase - which happen multiple times a year (I'm including the price increase to new products, like when a two army box goes from $130 to $160 to $185 to $230 in the span of six months). Eventually, they'll reach a tipping point where they push it too far. I think they almost did it with the Blood of the Phoenix box, but pulled back real quick after that ($230 to releasing boxes that were ONLY $185).

But don't worry. We won't have to wait long for this move to be outdone. Wait until you see the price tag on whatever is revealed this weekend.

But if you were buying a box or two every 3-6 months, its just going to be a bit more.

Remember, this is a company that has repeatedly released box sets that were over $200 (Dark Uprising was $290, Blood of the Phoenix for $230, Adeptus Titanicus GME was $350?). And have you ever seen the price for Blackstone Fortress expansions? GW's bottom line isn't built on people who buy one army for one game, slowly over time.

I think in November, they released over $1,000 worth of product across multiple game lines in a single month. They've got a core audience - one that isn't that big, in the grand scheme of things - that is buying that $1,000 worth of product and if they all tighten their buckles and limit their purchases simultaneously...

People may complain about the timing of this, but GW is actually doing us a big favor. By raising prices, it makes it even more profitable for us to sell our stuff now, as it is worth even more.

 Polonius wrote:

Gene St. Ealer wrote: At the same time too though... maybe this is too anecdotal but I played with folks of all walks of life at my LGS. Truck drivers, fast food workers, plumbers... as well as businesspeople and software engineers. If the combination of recession + small price increases + points drops necessitating more models turns this into solely a hobby of the upper middle class, that's a shame. And again, probably in the long run hurts GW. They'd turned a corner and instituted policies to make them less reliant on whales -- this is all going back on that.

In your example, you list two profession generally unaffected by this (truck drivers and plumbers) and one which had to have been struggling to afford any gW before (fast Food workers).

Really, though, the question isn't who is playing 40k/AOS, but who are buying the kits. Depending on what you believe, it's likely that over half of all GW are bought by people who never play.

Oguhmek wrote:Huh, so the Aeronautica Imperialis planes are old enough to warrant a price hike?

And the Mek Shop? They can't have been selling many of those kits due to the useless rules, do they think they'll sell more now?

I don't get it.

I think they're poor sellers. they can do one of three things: cut the SKU, and have people mad; increase the price and try to profit off the few people that do want to buy them; or stay the course and hope sales turn around. Given that most sales happen very early in a products life, I think some of this is a low seller tax. If you really want a mek boy shop, you gotta pay a premium to keep it in production.

Oh come on. Fine, pick different blue collar professions who aren't working right now, it's not hard. I told you it was an anecdote. And to your second statement, I really don't believe it. GW can say it all they want that they're a models company but I can count the number of painters-but-nonplayers that I know on 2 hands.

And to your other point, when have we ever seen GW drop a plastic kit from production? I just don't believe that is an outcome. Maybe I'm forgetting something.

 Irbis wrote:

If SC boxes were increasing in price they'd be on the list. Also, if by "Smaller kits will increase by £2" you mean £20ish kits, then spending £100 now would save £10, not £2
I like how multiple people in this thread already forgot big, pretty recent price hike on SC. Why on earth they would be rising already high bar?

Not all SC are at the same price. SC necrons for example is one of the cheaper ones. I think they will want to eventually bump them all up to 60. Also iiirc the sc price bump was more than an year ago, yes?

 godswildcard wrote:
I don't think this is going to be it, but one does wonder when GW will hit the magic threshold of people freezing their buying in droves.

People have been wondering that for 30 years now.

There's a common assumption that if 'I' think the the prices are too high, then it's clearly self-evident that they're too high. Some people are just less price sensitive than others.

 CoreCommander wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

If SC boxes were increasing in price they'd be on the list. Also, if by "Smaller kits will increase by £2" you mean £20ish kits, then spending £100 now would save £10, not £2.

I like how multiple people in this thread already forgot big, pretty recent price hike on SC. Why on earth they would be rising already high bar?

Not all SC are at the same price. SC necrons for example is one of the cheaper ones. I think they will want to eventually bump them all up to 60. Also iiirc the sc price bump was more than an year ago, yes?

Funnily enough, I checked the price on a couple things I was interested in for conversions, and the Warhammer Underworlds warbands are going down, as are the endless spells. So, I guess I wait then?

NVM

 insaniak wrote:
There's a common assumption that if 'I' think the the prices are too high, then it's clearly self-evident that they're too high. Some people are just less price sensitive than others.

Well, there's "what I can pay" and "what I'm willing to pay" and I think that, pre-lockdown, the objection was to what they were willing to pay. But it is a different world now and "what I can pay" is going to shrink for the majority of the population.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
NVM

Also note that they're the Spanish prices in Euros.

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Oh come on. Fine, pick different blue collar professions who aren't working right now, it's not hard. I told you it was an anecdote. And to your second statement, I really don't believe it. GW can say it all they want that they're a models company but I can count the number of painters-but-nonplayers that I know on 2 hands.

And to your other point, when have we ever seen GW drop a plastic kit from production? I just don't believe that is an outcome. Maybe I'm forgetting something.

All I know that is that every store owner or employee I've talked with has mentioned that they sell a lot of stuff to people they never see gaming. it could be false, but I've seen it generally as accepted wisdom. I mean... where do you think all the NIB old stuff comes from?

GW dropped most of the WFB range of the past few years. Tomb Kings and Brettonians were axed quickly, while ranges like Empire, Elves, Dwarves, etc. have been whittle down.

40k has stayed generally pretty immune, but they aren't going to keep old school marines in production for ever.

 Oaka wrote:
Funnily enough, I checked the price on a couple things I was interested in for conversions, and the Warhammer Underworlds warbands are going down, as are the endless spells. So, I guess I wait then?

That doesn’t seem right. They’re going up by either 3 or 4 dollars each.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
There's a common assumption that if 'I' think the the prices are too high, then it's clearly self-evident that they're too high. Some people are just less price sensitive than others.

Well, there's "what I can pay" and "what I'm willing to pay" and I think that, pre-lockdown, the objection was to what they were willing to pay. But it is a different world now and "what I can pay" is going to shrink for the majority of the population.

Serious question: if you're laid off, does the difference of $10 really factor into your decision to buy a stormraven? I would think that people would steer their limited leisure away from GW even if prices stayed constant.

 Polonius wrote:

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Oh come on. Fine, pick different blue collar professions who aren't working right now, it's not hard. I told you it was an anecdote. And to your second statement, I really don't believe it. GW can say it all they want that they're a models company but I can count the number of painters-but-nonplayers that I know on 2 hands.

And to your other point, when have we ever seen GW drop a plastic kit from production? I just don't believe that is an outcome. Maybe I'm forgetting something.

All I know that is that every store owner or employee I've talked with has mentioned that they sell a lot of stuff to people they never see gaming. it could be false, but I've seen it generally as accepted wisdom. I mean... where do you think all the NIB old stuff comes from?

GW dropped most of the WFB range of the past few years. Tomb Kings and Brettonians were axed quickly, while ranges like Empire, Elves, Dwarves, etc. have been whittle down.

40k has stayed generally pretty immune, but they aren't going to keep old school marines in production for ever.

It would be for bitz. I have no current Grey Knight army but have bought the kits for that purpose as have several people here.

 Polonius wrote:

All I know that is that every store owner or employee I've talked with has mentioned that they sell a lot of stuff to people they never see gaming.

Unless they make a habit of following people and lurking behind their couch, I'm not sure why this would be a revelation. Most people would play at home.

 insaniak wrote:

 godswildcard wrote:
I don't think this is going to be it, but one does wonder when GW will hit the magic threshold of people freezing their buying in droves.

People have been wondering that for 30 years now.

There's a common assumption that if 'I' think the the prices are too high, then it's clearly self-evident that they're too high. Some people are just less price sensitive than others.

One overlooked aspect of this is you get people who've been in the hobby for a while, with multiple armies, and stacks of stuff still on sprue, trying to explain that "price increases" are why they aren't going to buy more. It's not that they wouldn't use new stuff anyway, no, not at all.

Have you ever noticed that we don't order two entrees when we sit down for dinner? It's not because they're overcosted... it's because you probably physically cannot eat more than one!

angryboy2k wrote:

 Oaka wrote:
Funnily enough, I checked the price on a couple things I was interested in for conversions, and the Warhammer Underworlds warbands are going down, as are the endless spells. So, I guess I wait then?

That doesn’t seem right. They’re going up by either 3 or 4 dollars each.

Yep, you're right. The link to the featured items on the first page of the thread sent me to the Canada prices, which I was comparing against the US prices in the images posted.

 Polonius wrote:

One overlooked aspect of this is you get people who've been in the hobby for a while, with multiple armies, and stacks of stuff still on sprue, trying to explain that "price increases" are why they aren't going to buy more. It's not that they wouldn't use new stuff anyway, no, not at all.

On the flipside of that, there are people who've been in the hobby for a while, with multiple armies and stacks of stuff still on sprue, for whom the price increases are the reason they aren't going to buy any more. I'm one of them. I have multiple armies. I have as many unfinished armies as I do finished ones, and ideas for plenty more, that all went on hold when I decided that I just couldn't justify paying GW's prices any more. Some of those projects may eventually be completed with minis sourced on eBay. Some will likely be destined to an eternity languishing in the store room. And in the meantime, my hobby dollars are spent elsewhere.


But, I do accept that I'm not representative of GW's target market. And looking around at hobby blogs around the internet, it's quite apparent that there are still plenty of people out there with the available cash and the interest to splash out an awful lot of money on whatever GW chooses to sell.

Maybe they're hoping that less folk will want to buy from China now and taking advantage...

 Galas wrote:
So what are gonna cost ardboyz and sternguard veterans now? 50€? Man.

"Most of the things havent gonne up in price in years" yeah because the starter of LOTR is soo old...

Battle sanctum was out there for about 2 months and already getting price hike lol

 Kanluwen wrote:
There's already at least one down in the form of Fenrisian Wolves(who are now No Longer Available Online).

Looking at the UK site, there may have been two webstore entries for Fenrisian Wolves - there's one with 2020 in the URL which is showing as in stock, while the version with 2017 in the URL (and the same current price) is showing as No Longer Available Online.

Same kit, same number of models... weird.

Also says a lot about the GW website, but there you go...

 Dysartes wrote:

Looking at the UK site, there may have been two webstore entries for Fenrisian Wolves - there's one with 2020 in the URL which is showing as in stock, while the version with 2017 in the URL (and the same current price) is showing as No Longer Available Online.

Same kit, same number of models... weird.

Also says a lot about the GW website, but there you go...

That happens for packaging changes. The 2017 one will be the old box with the bordered art format. The 2020 is the current box.

 insaniak wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

One overlooked aspect of this is you get people who've been in the hobby for a while, with multiple armies, and stacks of stuff still on sprue, trying to explain that "price increases" are why they aren't going to buy more. It's not that they wouldn't use new stuff anyway, no, not at all.

On the flipside of that, there are people who've been in the hobby for a while, with multiple armies and stacks of stuff still on sprue, for whom the price increases are the reason they aren't going to buy any more. I'm one of them. I have multiple armies. I have as many unfinished armies as I do finished ones, and ideas for plenty more, that all went on hold when I decided that I just couldn't justify paying GW's prices any more. Some of those projects may eventually be completed with minis sourced on eBay. Some will likely be destined to an eternity languishing in the store room. And in the meantime, my hobby dollars are spent elsewhere.


But, I do accept that I'm not representative of GW's target market. And looking around at hobby blogs around the internet, it's quite apparent that there are still plenty of people out there with the available cash and the interest to splash out an awful lot of money on whatever GW chooses to sell.

yeah, I think that people excited to build a 40k army are going to do so regardless of a price increase. I'm not saying you're uninterested in building another army, but I'd guess if you were excited, you'd be working the stuff you have already, based on the truism that nobody has painted everything they own.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:

 Polonius wrote:

All I know that is that every store owner or employee I've talked with has mentioned that they sell a lot of stuff to people they never see gaming.

Unless they make a habit of following people and lurking behind their couch, I'm not sure why this would be a revelation. Most people would play at home.

I'm basing that on what I've heard from people who work at GW and FLGSs. I can't verify it, but its' been consistent across the US.

 Polonius wrote:

yeah, I think that people excited to build a 40k army are going to do so regardless of a price increase. I'm not saying you're uninterested in building another army, but I'd guess if you were excited, you'd be working the stuff you have already, based on the truism that nobody has painted everything they own.

The problem I have is that the idea that popped into my head just now is more exciting than the idea I had for the models already sitting downstairs.

But yes, my decision to stop buying new stuff has certainly helped me to start working on the backlog...

 Polonius wrote:
Serious question: if you're laid off, does the difference of $10 really factor into your decision to buy a stormraven? I would think that people would steer their limited leisure away from GW even if prices stayed constant.

$10 more for a single model isn't going to break the bank, but $10 more PER model might. And the two army boxes went up in price about $100 last year ($130 to $240), so if we are talking about the price increase in new products, it'll end up being far more significant.

 Polonius wrote:

I'm basing that on what I've heard from people who work at GW and FLGSs. I can't verify it, but its' been consistent across the US.

Remember that here in the US we seem to have more of a 'store' based culture than the club/home gaming that seems to be most of the European countries and Australia/NZ. It very much seems to be A Thing.

 Polonius wrote:

I'm basing that on what I've heard from people who work at GW and FLGSs. I can't verify it, but its' been consistent across the US.

Yep, I get that. My point was that the fact that store owners have customers they never see playing the game is exactly what I would expect, because I expect that most people don't actually play in stores. In the US, stores may be the most common public place to play, but you're going to find far more people just playing at home with one or two friends or family members.

Yea this really sucks! it's not just price rises on the monster and HQ models which they always gouge on, but the basic troop models which are the bread and butter of the game.
I do appreciate them being up front about it and not sneaking it through whilst we are all distracted with the virus.

What this does is make me evaluate the 'value for money' I get on Warhammer in general.
I think this could be the push I needed to move away from GW on things like paint and terrain where there are cheaper and better alternatives.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Maybe they're hoping that less folk will want to buy from China now and taking advantage...

but as we all know chinacast stuff is so toxic itll kill germs no probs so might be safer than virus infested legit plastic

I just came to hop on the hate train. I hate hearing price adjustment I get so tired of the marketing lies. It's a price hike people, for the couple things that may get repackaged to end up cheaper per model that is more a happy accident. The vast majority of everything is just a price hike. Though keep peeing on my head and say its raining GW, thanks.

That said, for any saying this is a cheap hobby ? Hardly. Even with infinite money, it's needlessly expensive to play this game and have this hobby in both money and time to build and paint. For the cost it'll take me to start a small sisters force I could easily get the new next gen gaming consoles with games and extras. Which probably a safer bet for getting good use especially trying to avoid other people for safety.

At one point in my collecting yes this was the cheaper path, far from it at this point. Actually cost out a new army just released it's absolutely gobsmackingly high these days. God forbid they ever re do Guard infantry as even these ancient cadians are going up in cost.

The only good thing is all my old models just keeping going up in worth. Each model kit is actually an investment in the future. I'm a hobby investor ya'll !